13.2.4.5 > 26 - horrible falling out with a friend

[foxx777]

Hi, all:
I had a terrible falling out with a dear friend on the phone this evening. All sorts of horrible back and forth recriminations, things from the past thrown up. It was unexpected, and horrible---just seemed to escalate.

About an hour later, she emailed me, saying that we had both let things get out of hand, and that we should think for a bit.

I ought to have listened, but hurt made me email her back saying that we were finished, and that we ought never speak again. I regretted it after sending, but it was too late.

I asked the I Ching, "What can be now, after the horrible fight and my email?"

I got 13.2.4.5 changing to 26.

The present is embodied in Hexagram 13 - T'ung Jen (Fellowship with Men): The union of me appears here in the remote districts of the country, indicating progress and success. It will be advantageous to cross the great stream. It will be advantageous to maintain the firm correctness of the superior man.

The second line, divided, shows the representative of the union of men in relation with his kindred. There will be occasion for regret.
The fourth line, undivided, shows its subject mounted on the city wall, but he does not proceed to make the attack he contemplates. There will be good fortune.
In the fifth line, undivided, the representative of the union of men first wails and cries out, and then laughs. His great host conquers, and he and the subject of the second line meet together.
The situation is shifting, and Yin (the passive feminine force) is gaining ground.

The future is embodied in Hexagram 26 - Ta Ch'u (The Taming Power of the Great): It will be advantageous to be firm and correct. If he does not seek to enjoy his revenues in his own family, without taking service at court, there will be good fortune. It will be advantageous for him to cross the great stream.

I gleaned from this:

• line 2: she and I were both arguing from our own respective points of view, and not really understanding the other's.
• line 4: Perhaps her regretful email? (she seemed sheepish, without really saying she was sorry)
• line 5: I suppose the hope that we may reconcile at some point.
• H26: This may indicate a future plan she and I had, to go to an event together, in Europe. It was something which entailed scholarly work. Of course in anger we had each said

we did not want to any longer involve the other in this.

I wonder if I am being too hopeful to think we can reconcile now? Not only were dreadful things said in the heat of anger, but I realized in many ways she does not really understand my stance on things. I was very hurt and insulted, but feel real sorrow at the thought of the friendship broken beyond repair. Any thoughts would be welcome and most appreciated. :bows:

 

[dragona]

Out of my personal experience, I think you should email your friend back, saying that you spoke out of frustration from your mutual misunderstanding within the friendship that you value too much to loose.
Suggest meeting up in the future, when you both are calmer. But not too far in the future, or it will build itself up, probably to burden you way too much.
Good luck, hope it all works out.

 

[hopex]

Hi Foxx777 - I am sorry you are upset but the casting is
affirmative that your friendship can withstand the odd
blow out. I am not as good on the lines as you but

I see 13 as fellowship of man - relationships with grow
the lines will have more in depth advices

26 - in my book is taming the big beast - might that be
a temper? i do not know but certainly as Dragona says
express the regret you feel as soon as you can he
makes up first wins

 

[foxx777]

Thanks kindly to you both, Dragona and Hopex. I hate to have to add this, but it got even worse, because she emailed me back, and then there were more bitter words back and forth. I think yes, my temper may get the best of me (mainly because if I feel judged, I get deeply hurt, and then anger is my gut reaction. )

I think in order to follow this reading, I will have to step back, allow a bit of time to pass, and then offer an olive branch in a very simple way. I do have a history of talking too much during conflict: I cannot seem to refrain from adding things such as, "And another thing, why did you say such and such????" and then it gets worse and worse, and I wind up with a bigger problem than I had at the original fight.

BTW, How is Bruce doing, Hopex? I hope very well!!!:bows:

 

[dragona]

So I guess you casted in the end of it?
I do have a history of talking too much during conflict: I cannot seem to refrain from adding things such as, "And another thing, why did you say such and such????" and then it gets worse and worse, and I wind up with a bigger problem than I had at the original fight.
You remind me of somebody...sigh

 

[foxx777]

So I guess you casted in the end of it?
I do have a history of talking too much during conflict: I cannot seem to refrain from adding things such as, "And another thing, why did you say such and such????" and then it gets worse and worse, and I wind up with a bigger problem than I had at the original fight.
You remind me of somebody...sigh

ha. No, I did not bother to recast after I had messed it up even more with emails. I just figured , I will stick to the original, but I have now made it a bit harder on myself. More baggage, more time and effort to recoup. I can try now, though, just for good measure: After complicating the conflict more with extra emails, what is the potential for healing this friendship now?
Received: (had to use Legge, as the Berkers site is on the blink):
63.3 >3
The third line, undivided, suggests the case of Kao Tsung who attacked the Demon region, but was three years in subduing it. Small men should not be employed in such enterprises. I take it that it may take quite some time now, to "subdue the demon region" (source of conflicts with a dear friend). The "small men" are the petty, vindictive and egoistic attitudes, which should not be employed. 3 is a new and difficult beginning. Oy vey, what else is new???

 

[ginnie]

Your original reading said you both would have a reunion. I think that you will find that even though you two have differences, you don't have to fight over them.

By the way, it is the opinion of Bradford that when we get 63.3, the subduing of the Demon Country has already taken place. In other words, the arduous work is behind you.

You both just need some time to let the sting go out of the recent verbal hostilities.

 

[foxx777]

Your original reading said you both would have a reunion. I think that you will find that even though you two have differences, you don't have to fight over them.

By the way, it is the opinion of Bradford that when we get 63.3, the subduing of the Demon Country has already taken place. In other words, the arduous work is behind you.

You both just need some time to let the sting go out of the recent verbal hostilities.

Gee, thanks for that, Ginnie. I had not heard that about line 3. That is very compelling. Yes, I think I must learn that I do not need to panic, when someone has a different opinion than my own. I always take it as a judgment, and get very defensive, very combative and over-sensitive. This may be the demon territory referred to---something which must be subdued within me. thanks once more!

 

[dragona]

It is the old story of the ego..if we can control that, we can do anything..but this happens only to often, I am afraid...and from the Wilhelm`s translation, I get the idea that it will take a lots of tactics to get on the good terms again. And then it may bring the friendship to a new level, perhaps more validate each others opinions.
For this reason, a correct colonial policy is especially important. The territory won at such bitter cost must not be regarded as an almshouse for people who in one way or another have had themselves impossible at home, but who are thought to be quite good enough for the colonies. Such a policy ruins at the outset any chance of success. This holds true in small as well as large matters, because it is not only rising states that carry on a colonial policy; the urge to expand, with its accompanying dangers, is part and parcel of every ambitious undertaking.

 

[foxx777]

It is the old story of the ego..if we can control that, we can do anything..but this happens only to often, I am afraid...and from the Wilhelm`s translation, I get the idea that it will take a lots of tactics to get on the good terms again. And then it may bring the friendship to a new level, perhaps more validate each others opinions.
For this reason, a correct colonial policy is especially important. The territory won at such bitter cost must not be regarded as an almshouse for people who in one way or another have had themselves impossible at home, but who are thought to be quite good enough for the colonies. Such a policy ruins at the outset any chance of success. This holds true in small as well as large matters, because it is not only rising states that carry on a colonial policy; the urge to expand, with its accompanying dangers, is part and parcel of every ambitious undertaking.

Thanks for that, Dragona. Yes, Wilhelm is apt here. In small matters, there is the same tendency. I shall pay heed.

 

[Trojina]

I think alot more thought and time needs to be given to the situation....rather than just rushing to patch things up (hex 26) because you feel bad about it.

Rows like this don't happen for no reason....you both had things to say.

Looking at the reading 13.2 suggests in some way there really isn't enough air in this relationship...its too enclosed...it may be based on more doubtful motives. Thats not to say it isn't a good friendship but it needs alot more space...and it also needs more people. Its gotten a bit too exclusive perhaps. Perhaps you only see one another on your own....its like you need to be in a group because some kind of perspective is lost...and its as if the friendship does not serve in a way friendship should serve. Also 13.4 clearly indicates boundaries are needed here. You both need to feel fine all by yourself....if you quashed the need for that then perhaps this finally erupted in the row. If you both do connect with the same people perhaps theres some sort of clique issue going on....but something not nice is going on in 13.2 and it doesn't mean you just see things your own way at all

In 13.5 people join together after a period of wailing and weeping...its not like immediate reconciliation. I've received this line for sort of legal/beaurocratic conflicts...which aren't a barrel of laughs. In the end they've come good but there is a bit of a struggle there.

Hex 26 suggests to me you either hold back a little or suggests this thing has been a long time brewing.


The reading is not saying "you are very bad to make this upset and you must put it right" it just isn't saying that...yet its the feeling you immediately run to...as do other females who have answered here.


I think women generally feel very uncomfortable in falling out with a friend...but its often actually quite healthy that its happened becasue some space and awareness of boundaries actually was needed.


Consider what your complaints were...what her complaints were. Doesn't seem to me all this happened just cos someone got in a bad mood. Why not give some faith and credence to your own feelings...of annoyance with her. Maybe those feelings are trying to help you.

For the 63.3 well Hilary talks about this in her book as these issues as being long standing...like things that are always on the periphery of your life that threaten you. Again this looks like hard work and I think it calls for you to ask yourself questions about this. How much effort do you want to spend on this friendship...perhaps ?

You headed straight to self blame...like parents do with small kids who fight ...you said to yourself 'play nicely now'...but actually you had more to say ...and you are an adult, and often persistent anger in a relationship tells us the truth about it for us ! Something is bad for us....threatens us...we need to change it...or avoid it.

Think I see this as an opportunity to reevaluate the friendship and perhaps put it on a slightly more...open...footing ?


Either way theres no rush here to make it all alright...26 I think indicates some self restraint to think deeply rather than rushing into "oh I am such a bad person etc etc"

 

[ginnie]

I agree with what Trojan said about reevaluating the friendship. Sometimes 63.3 means that some amendment to previous unspoken contracts or agreements needs to be put in place. Especially in long-term relationships, things can grind on in an unsatisfactory way for quite some time. Then comes a blow-up, and it seems that the blow-up has destroyed the long-term relationship -- or we actively want it to end.

But it's not so easy to end a long-term relationship between women. It would be easier to amend or change some of the aspects of the relationship than to terminate it altogether. Usually that's all the women wanted in the first place ... or maybe a recognition from their friend that in some ways they were very hard to put up with.

Minor adjustments may be all that is needed and, really, a sense of humor helps tremendously, for the fact is that nobody is perfect and we all would do well to laugh at ourselves.

 

[foxx777]

Thank you, both, Trojan and Ginnie:
I have a long standing history of being drawn into intense relationships with other academic, philosophical types.

They tend to be ( and I include my own behavior and traits here) full of brilliance, creativity, intelligent argument, but also egoism, rivalry, and all sort of "one upmanship".

Trojan, I do appreciate what you say about the NEED for boundaries, expansiveness, because yes, these relationships tend to be very intense but also very entangled and enclosed. Thanks to both of you, and I will continue to mull over all that is posted above.:bows: