13.2.6 > 43 Who/what are you?

[floranova]

Hi, this is my first post and I'm new to this divination method, so please let me know if I'm messing anything up because this website and the I ching itself is a bit foreign to me

So I wanted to ask the I ching directly who/what I'm speaking to when I ask it a question because I'm getting some suspiciously coherent answers that feel as if I'm speaking to a sentient thing. My interpretation of it is that yes it is a "person" and it has friendly intent. Hexagram 43 gives me the impression it wants to help me make decisions. As for the transforming lines, I'm not sure what to make of them. One line implies ancestors, and the other implies casual acquaintances (if I'm not mistaken) so there's a sense of closeness and distance at the same time. What do yall think?

 

[floranova]

Also, does anyone else get a feeling of personality from the I ching? I've been doing tarot for awhile and I get a very gentle and affectionate vibe from it, whereas the I ching seems a little more stern and blunt. I need that honestly

 

[Trojina]

Interesting as a few years ago I got pretty much the same answer when I asked 'Are you the voice of God'. It's a Change Circle thread here

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?threads/are-you-the-voice-of-god-13-1-2-6-28.31745/

..you won't be able to access it if not in CC. My thread was from 2021 and had a number of replies and will update that later as well as link to this thread there.

The interesting thing here is we both got 13 lines 2 and 6 ! My cast being 13.1.2.6>28.

Of course it isn't the kind of question I can come to any final conclusions about and nor is yours but it is an interesting question.

So I wanted to ask the I ching directly who/what I'm speaking to when I ask it a question because I'm getting some suspiciously coherent answers that feel as if I'm speaking to a sentient thing. My interpretation of it is that yes it is a "person" and it has friendly intent. Hexagram 43 gives me the impression it wants to help me make decisions. As for the transforming lines, I'm not sure what to make of them. One line implies ancestors, and the other implies casual acquaintances (if I'm not mistaken) so there's a sense of closeness and distance at the same time. What do yall think?

I've certainly always felt Yi as a living presence, there's more there than words on a page.

My thoughts today about this cast make wonder if Yi may serve in the way that angels do. I have read that unlike us they cannot choose whether to follow the will of God or not they are servants of God and of humanity....apart from the fallen kind that is.

Many people have experienced the presence of angels, indeed the other day I felt such a presence when troubled and it occurred to me then how wonderful it must be to be an angel. Wonderful because they can go straight to the troubled person wherever they are however wretched and alone they are. A person could be locked in a dungeon and an angel can be there with them. Well so can God of course but angels have a certain relationship with us whereby they do seem to appear in times of trouble. Yi also can reach anyone anywhere however alone or without support they are. This is also wonderful. I certainly can think of times where I was most alone but answered by Yi and answered not just as words on a page but by a consciousness, a living consciousness.

To the cast. 13, Humanity , well I tend to think of 13 as humanity, just people, us, our species, our clans and so on. Hilary calls it 'People in Harmony'

​

Oracle

'People in harmony in the wilds: creating success.
Harvest in crossing the great river.
Harvest in a noble one's constancy.'


Image
'Heaven joins with fire. People in harmony.
In the same way, the noble one sorts the clans and differentiates between people.'

The Image points to the differences between people and groups and the creating of harmony of those while still maintaining those differences.

Sometimes when I cast 13 it seems to do with societies I am moving within in terms of the question.

Here then for your question and my question I see 13 as saying Yi is pro humanity, for people, from people, with people. If we try to think about the vast spiritual forces/beings there are that we know nothing of one might think that some are them of for humanity and some aren't. These themes are in major religions and I don't claim to understand but I think it quite possible we are small players amongst Big Spiritual Principalities and in Christianity that would be God and the Devil for example. The battle between powers of good and evil run through all cultures, all stories and so within this there angelic beings, kind deities as well as the demonic. Yi I feel is a servant of humanity(13), a servant of God who speaks to us (43) who perhaps at one time lived as a human, I have no idea, obviously...but a spiritual being or group of beings, some people refer to Yi as 'they' who helps us as angels do. Is Yi a kind of angel? I have no way to know but clearly at some point in time Yi connected with humanity on earth/was human on earth in ancient China to form the hexagrams and write the text. Scholars will know about that, there was a chap called Fuxi is all I know or don't know. Someone with more knowledge of how Yi was made may have an interesting take on your cast. Or maybe those who devised Yi, and I think much in the lines belongs to folklore, to the people as a whole (again 13) created something transcending time and space to reach us now.

We both got 13.2

'People in harmony at the ancestral temple.
Shame.'

A number of things come to mind with this one of which is 'don't worship me'. If Yi is a helper then it would be shameful to make an idol of it. Just as we do not worship angels we shouldn't worship or be subservient to Yi. That's just one thought. This line is generally taken as meaning one is being too narrow, too parochial in fellowship. The temple is a place to dedicate to what is beyond human or to all all humanity but here the 'people in harmony' here use it merely as a place to bond in their cliques so it becomes a place devoted to social concerns not spiritual ones, not higher ideals. Is Yi saying this about itself or about us ? I don't know. I could see it that Yi is saying 'you don't know the half of me you only bring what you want to know'.....or it could in itself be part of Yi's own story of existence. Perhaps Yi became Yi as an offering for previous spiritual neglects, that is within it's own spiritual evolution as a being or group of beings....I know I'm going a bit wacky here but it's just ideas...

We both got 13.6 too

'People in harmony at the outskirts altar.
No regrets.'

I see in wiki the outskirts altar was where sacrifices were made for different occasions and so this ties in with the temple in line 2 where also sacrifices would be or should be made to that which is beyond ourselves. Unlike line 2 here there are 'no regrets' so no shame as in line 2. Between these lines I get the sense Yi is here to rectify something, rectify attitudes towards values in life. It certainly does that, it really does.

Change patterns here are 4 yang pattern and 49 yin pattern, the breaking out of ignorance through transformation.

The 43 I haven't gone into much but it's to do with presentation of truth. You asked who or what you were speaking to and perhaps this answers says

'A servant of humanity who speaks the truth'.

Might also be

'The voice if truth of the soul of humanity'

....but I prefer the first one.

What do you think?

Also, does anyone else get a feeling of personality from the I ching? I've been doing tarot for awhile and I get a very gentle and affectionate vibe from it, whereas the I ching seems a little more stern and blunt. I need that honestly

Yes I get a sense of personality also quite humorous at times but also kind, loving to us. I cannot compare it to Tarot which feels to me as if it could sort of be used by any passing intelligence. I wouldn't trust it much. I find Yi far more stable and honest somehow. Or it could be I just find Tarot creepy.

 

[my_key]

Who / what are you? 13: 2.6. <> 43

'Seeking Harmony' through 'Eliminating'

So I wanted to ask the I ching directly who/what I'm speaking to when I ask it a question because I'm getting some suspiciously coherent answers that feel as if I'm speaking to a sentient thing.

Why be suspicious of coherent answers coming from a sentient entity?
Any question such as yours will not return a direct answer, as in this realm there is no word that can express who / what answers the queries. Here it speaks more to the way that you will recognise it's nature and how it creates the winds of change that bring new wisdom to you.

In replying to your query Yi says to consider the being that you are speaking to as one who bestows wealth and benefits upon those below without any conditionality (43).

13 indicates it acts purely as a model and a mirror of power and virtue. It offers support through sharing with those that are struggling, insights into how different aspects of life can be more naturally categorised. Thus allowing the path less often trodden to be better illuminated.

Its work emanates from a place beyond and begins within the depths of your inner world, and the associated ancestral connections. It moves in ways that inspire you to remove long held distress or chaos and to reorganise and clean your inner landscape (13.2). It does this in the hope that you will discover new wisdom that will allow you to leave past sorrows behind and so engage wholeheartedly in a brighter fresher future (13.6).

The deep influence behind any reply you are given is directed by the nuclear power of 44 'Coupling' where it meets you where you are most open to being met - 'gentle and affectionate vibe'. The conversations weave together in subtle and flexible approaches that influence the strong and fixed within you.

... of course, there may be other interpretations that speak to you more clearly.

Good Luck

 

[floranova]

Interesting as a few years ago I got pretty much the same answer when I asked 'Are you the voice of God'. It's a Change Circle thread here

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?threads/are-you-the-voice-of-god-13-1-2-6-28.31745/

..you won't be able to access it if not in CC. My thread was from 2021 and had a number of replies and will update that later as well as link to this thread there.

The interesting thing here is we both got 13 lines 2 and 6 ! My cast being 13.1.2.6>28.

Of course it isn't the kind of question I can come to any final conclusions about and nor is yours but it is an interesting question.


I've certainly always felt Yi as a living presence, there's more there than words on a page.

My thoughts today about this cast make wonder if Yi may serve in the way that angels do. I have read that unlike us they cannot choose whether to follow the will of God or not they are servants of God and of humanity....apart from the fallen kind that is.

Many people have experienced the presence of angels, indeed the other day I felt such a presence when troubled and it occurred to me then how wonderful it must be to be an angel. Wonderful because they can go straight to the troubled person wherever they are however wretched and alone they are. A person could be locked in a dungeon and an angel can be there with them. Well so can God of course but angels have a certain relationship with us whereby they do seem to appear in times of trouble. Yi also can reach anyone anywhere however alone or without support they are. This is also wonderful. I certainly can think of times where I was most alone but answered by Yi and answered not just as words on a page but by a consciousness, a living consciousness.

To the cast. 13, Humanity , well I tend to think of 13 as humanity, just people, us, our species, our clans and so on. Hilary calls it 'People in Harmony'

​

Oracle

'People in harmony in the wilds: creating success.
Harvest in crossing the great river.
Harvest in a noble one's constancy.'


Image
'Heaven joins with fire. People in harmony.
In the same way, the noble one sorts the clans and differentiates between people.'

The Image points to the differences between people and groups and the creating of harmony of those while still maintaining those differences.

Sometimes when I cast 13 it seems to do with societies I am moving within in terms of the question.

Here then for your question and my question I see 13 as saying Yi is pro humanity, for people, from people, with people. If we try to think about the vast spiritual forces/beings there are that we know nothing of one might think that some are them of for humanity and some aren't. These themes are in major religions and I don't claim to understand but I think it quite possible we are small players amongst Big Spiritual Principalities and in Christianity that would be God and the Devil for example. The battle between powers of good and evil run through all cultures, all stories and so within this there angelic beings, kind deities as well as the demonic. Yi I feel is a servant of humanity(13), a servant of God who speaks to us (43) who perhaps at one time lived as a human, I have no idea, obviously...but a spiritual being or group of beings, some people refer to Yi as 'they' who helps us as angels do. Is Yi a kind of angel? I have no way to know but clearly at some point in time Yi connected with humanity on earth/was human on earth in ancient China to form the hexagrams and write the text. Scholars will know about that, there was a chap called Fuxi is all I know or don't know. Someone with more knowledge of how Yi was made may have an interesting take on your cast. Or maybe those who devised Yi, and I think much in the lines belongs to folklore, to the people as a whole (again 13) created something transcending time and space to reach us now.

We both got 13.2

'People in harmony at the ancestral temple.
Shame.'

A number of things come to mind with this one of which is 'don't worship me'. If Yi is a helper then it would be shameful to make an idol of it. Just as we do not worship angels we shouldn't worship or be subservient to Yi. That's just one thought. This line is generally taken as meaning one is being too narrow, too parochial in fellowship. The temple is a place to dedicate to what is beyond human or to all all humanity but here the 'people in harmony' here use it merely as a place to bond in their cliques so it becomes a place devoted to social concerns not spiritual ones, not higher ideals. Is Yi saying this about itself or about us ? I don't know. I could see it that Yi is saying 'you don't know the half of me you only bring what you want to know'.....or it could in itself be part of Yi's own story of existence. Perhaps Yi became Yi as an offering for previous spiritual neglects, that is within it's own spiritual evolution as a being or group of beings....I know I'm going a bit wacky here but it's just ideas...

We both got 13.6 too

'People in harmony at the outskirts altar.
No regrets.'

I see in wiki the outskirts altar was where sacrifices were made for different occasions and so this ties in with the temple in line 2 where also sacrifices would be or should be made to that which is beyond ourselves. Unlike line 2 here there are 'no regrets' so no shame as in line 2. Between these lines I get the sense Yi is here to rectify something, rectify attitudes towards values in life. It certainly does that, it really does.

Change patterns here are 4 yang pattern and 49 yin pattern, the breaking out of ignorance through transformation.

The 43 I haven't gone into much but it's to do with presentation of truth. You asked who or what you were speaking to and perhaps this answers says

'A servant of humanity who speaks the truth'.

Might also be

'The voice if truth of the soul of humanity'

....but I prefer the first one.

What do you think?



Yes I get a sense of personality also quite humorous at times but also kind, loving to us. I cannot compare it to Tarot which feels to me as if it could sort of be used by any passing intelligence. I wouldn't trust it much. I find Yi far more stable and honest somehow. Or it could be I just find Tarot creepy.

I got such a warm feeling in my chest when reading your reply, especially that you got basically the same answer. Thank you for your thorough and thoughtful response, you're awesome I have pretty much the same theory. It reminds me a bit of that game where you have one person blindfolded and another person verbally guiding them through some task without intervening physically. I forget what the game is called and what the task is supposed to be, but hopefully you get the gist. We're blindfolded, fumbling through life and they/it is our slightly frustrated but amused guide. I gravitate toward "the voice of truth of the soul of humanity" because I like the idea that we all come from One and that when we die or when our souls retire from living and reincarnating, we get to return to that One. Maybe it's many voices and one voice at the same time. I agree that they/it lived as a human being at one time, possibly many human beings. Whatever it may be, I just know I feel safe taking its advice.

 

[floranova]

Who / what are you? 13: 2.6. <> 43

'Seeking Harmony' through 'Eliminating'


Why be suspicious of coherent answers coming from a sentient entity?
Any question such as yours will not return a direct answer, as in this realm there is no word that can express who / what answers the queries. Here it speaks more to the way that you will recognise it's nature and how it creates the winds of change that bring new wisdom to you.

In replying to your query Yi says to consider the being that you are speaking to as one who bestows wealth and benefits upon those below without any conditionality (43).

13 indicates it acts purely as a model and a mirror of power and virtue. It offers support through sharing with those that are struggling, insights into how different aspects of life can be more naturally categorised. Thus allowing the path less often trodden to be better illuminated.

Its work emanates from a place beyond and begins within the depths of your inner world, and the associated ancestral connections. It moves in ways that inspire you to remove long held distress or chaos and to reorganise and clean your inner landscape (13.2). It does this in the hope that you will discover new wisdom that will allow you to leave past sorrows behind and so engage wholeheartedly in a brighter fresher future (13.6).

The deep influence behind any reply you are given is directed by the nuclear power of 44 'Coupling' where it meets you where you are most open to being met - 'gentle and affectionate vibe'. The conversations weave together in subtle and flexible approaches that influence the strong and fixed within you.

... of course, there may be other interpretations that speak to you more clearly.

Good Luck

I don't mean suspicious in a negative way at all, I'm sure there's a better word for what I meant though. Uncanny probably. Hair raising, goosebump inducing and inexplicable. But your interpretation definitely sits well with me. I go more in depth on my reply to trojina if you want to see my thoughts, they're not too far off from yours thank you for your analysis, I'm developing such a strong feeling of affection for Yi. I feel lucky to have stumbled across it.

 

[floranova]

Interesting as a few years ago I got pretty much the same answer when I asked 'Are you the voice of God'. It's a Change Circle thread here

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?threads/are-you-the-voice-of-god-13-1-2-6-28.31745/

..you won't be able to access it if not in CC. My thread was from 2021 and had a number of replies and will update that later as well as link to this thread there.

The interesting thing here is we both got 13 lines 2 and 6 ! My cast being 13.1.2.6>28.

Of course it isn't the kind of question I can come to any final conclusions about and nor is yours but it is an interesting question.


I've certainly always felt Yi as a living presence, there's more there than words on a page.

My thoughts today about this cast make wonder if Yi may serve in the way that angels do. I have read that unlike us they cannot choose whether to follow the will of God or not they are servants of God and of humanity....apart from the fallen kind that is.

Many people have experienced the presence of angels, indeed the other day I felt such a presence when troubled and it occurred to me then how wonderful it must be to be an angel. Wonderful because they can go straight to the troubled person wherever they are however wretched and alone they are. A person could be locked in a dungeon and an angel can be there with them. Well so can God of course but angels have a certain relationship with us whereby they do seem to appear in times of trouble. Yi also can reach anyone anywhere however alone or without support they are. This is also wonderful. I certainly can think of times where I was most alone but answered by Yi and answered not just as words on a page but by a consciousness, a living consciousness.

To the cast. 13, Humanity , well I tend to think of 13 as humanity, just people, us, our species, our clans and so on. Hilary calls it 'People in Harmony'

​

Oracle

'People in harmony in the wilds: creating success.
Harvest in crossing the great river.
Harvest in a noble one's constancy.'


Image
'Heaven joins with fire. People in harmony.
In the same way, the noble one sorts the clans and differentiates between people.'

The Image points to the differences between people and groups and the creating of harmony of those while still maintaining those differences.

Sometimes when I cast 13 it seems to do with societies I am moving within in terms of the question.

Here then for your question and my question I see 13 as saying Yi is pro humanity, for people, from people, with people. If we try to think about the vast spiritual forces/beings there are that we know nothing of one might think that some are them of for humanity and some aren't. These themes are in major religions and I don't claim to understand but I think it quite possible we are small players amongst Big Spiritual Principalities and in Christianity that would be God and the Devil for example. The battle between powers of good and evil run through all cultures, all stories and so within this there angelic beings, kind deities as well as the demonic. Yi I feel is a servant of humanity(13), a servant of God who speaks to us (43) who perhaps at one time lived as a human, I have no idea, obviously...but a spiritual being or group of beings, some people refer to Yi as 'they' who helps us as angels do. Is Yi a kind of angel? I have no way to know but clearly at some point in time Yi connected with humanity on earth/was human on earth in ancient China to form the hexagrams and write the text. Scholars will know about that, there was a chap called Fuxi is all I know or don't know. Someone with more knowledge of how Yi was made may have an interesting take on your cast. Or maybe those who devised Yi, and I think much in the lines belongs to folklore, to the people as a whole (again 13) created something transcending time and space to reach us now.

We both got 13.2

'People in harmony at the ancestral temple.
Shame.'

A number of things come to mind with this one of which is 'don't worship me'. If Yi is a helper then it would be shameful to make an idol of it. Just as we do not worship angels we shouldn't worship or be subservient to Yi. That's just one thought. This line is generally taken as meaning one is being too narrow, too parochial in fellowship. The temple is a place to dedicate to what is beyond human or to all all humanity but here the 'people in harmony' here use it merely as a place to bond in their cliques so it becomes a place devoted to social concerns not spiritual ones, not higher ideals. Is Yi saying this about itself or about us ? I don't know. I could see it that Yi is saying 'you don't know the half of me you only bring what you want to know'.....or it could in itself be part of Yi's own story of existence. Perhaps Yi became Yi as an offering for previous spiritual neglects, that is within it's own spiritual evolution as a being or group of beings....I know I'm going a bit wacky here but it's just ideas...

We both got 13.6 too

'People in harmony at the outskirts altar.
No regrets.'

I see in wiki the outskirts altar was where sacrifices were made for different occasions and so this ties in with the temple in line 2 where also sacrifices would be or should be made to that which is beyond ourselves. Unlike line 2 here there are 'no regrets' so no shame as in line 2. Between these lines I get the sense Yi is here to rectify something, rectify attitudes towards values in life. It certainly does that, it really does.

Change patterns here are 4 yang pattern and 49 yin pattern, the breaking out of ignorance through transformation.

The 43 I haven't gone into much but it's to do with presentation of truth. You asked who or what you were speaking to and perhaps this answers says

'A servant of humanity who speaks the truth'.

Might also be

'The voice if truth of the soul of humanity'

....but I prefer the first one.

What do you think?



Yes I get a sense of personality also quite humorous at times but also kind, loving to us. I cannot compare it to Tarot which feels to me as if it could sort of be used by any passing intelligence. I wouldn't trust it much. I find Yi far more stable and honest somehow. Or it could be I just find Tarot creepy.

Haha that's fair! In my experience I feel tarot is too eager to save my feelings or sugarcoat things. I come to it with an issue and I get an answer like "Oh dear! You're beautiful and perfect and you don't have to worry about a thing" whereas Yi will tell it like it is "Don't like it? Change it."