13.2 humiliation

[g77777]

is K right about x

I have a situation with a dear friend of mine. She and I have a nice friendship, but increasingly we have a topic that seem to put us in a kind of opposition. She feels that a friend of mine has behaved badly and I feel she deserves more compassion and unwillingly to give up on her. I do understand what she sees and thinks, but I continue to try to see what happens. My friend is not jealous, she just feels that this woman will hurt me further, and since she is quite intuitive is very firm.

Now our friendship has somehow gotten into "let's talk about everything but the elephant in the room. So I asked the Yi "is K right about x?"

I read Wilhelm and get confused by this line other than the obvious part about factions:

Six in the second place means:
Fellowship with men in the clan.
Humiliation.
There is danger here of formation of a separate faction on the basis of personal and egotistic interests. Such factions, which are exclusive and, instead of welcoming all men, must condemn one group in order to unite the others, originate from low motives and therefore lead in the course of time to humiliation.

So this seems pretty straightforward...there are factions being created. It would suggest too wouldn't it that my friend is condemning my friend in order to unite us? But here it also says personal or egoistic interests is the reason for the condemnation. Hmmm...does that mean that her need to be right supersedes her care?

Then the other is advice given is that this behavior leads to humiliation...since my question is my friend right is right about x...does that mean in time my friend's view will prove to be wrong (hexagram 1)?

Lise writes:

6 at 2: Union of people at the ancestral temple. Distress.
Simple contacts, flexible, open and casual, make people know and love each other. Restrictions and mores - putting people or things in a box - prohibit them to be genuine and true and to appear like they really are.

This interpretation exactly reflects my discomfort...don't like putting people box.

Thank you for any experiences or insight...

G7

 

[meng]

The clan may possibly refer to K and X, she and the elephant that she refuses to realistically discuss. I've learned there are people I would not wish to share a foxhole with (a ditch in a battlefield). Such people avoid confrontation at any cost, and while they consider themselves as nice, sometimes they're just in denial that the problem exists at all; sometimes they are just cowards in a sheep's coat. I don't call such people "dear" friends, only casual acquaintances. A friend will watch your back when there is blatant injustice against you.

 

[Trojina]

is K right about x

I have a situation with a dear friend of mine. She and I have a nice friendship, but increasingly we have a topic that seem to put us in a kind of opposition. She feels that a friend of mine has behaved badly and I feel she deserves more compassion and unwillingly to give up on her. I do understand what she sees and thinks, but I continue to try to see what happens. My friend is not jealous, she just feels that this woman will hurt me further, and since she is quite intuitive is very firm.

Now our friendship has somehow gotten into "let's talk about everything but the elephant in the room. So I asked the Yi "is K right about x?"

I read Wilhelm and get confused by this line other than the obvious part about factions:

Six in the second place means:
Fellowship with men in the clan.
Humiliation.
There is danger here of formation of a separate faction on the basis of personal and egotistic interests. Such factions, which are exclusive and, instead of welcoming all men, must condemn one group in order to unite the others, originate from low motives and therefore lead in the course of time to humiliation.

So this seems pretty straightforward...there are factions being created. It would suggest too wouldn't it that my friend is condemning my friend in order to unite us? But here it also says personal or egoistic interests is the reason for the condemnation. Hmmm...does that mean that her need to be right supersedes her care?
Then the other is advice given is that this behavior leads to humiliation...since my question is my friend right is right about x...does that mean in time my friend's view will prove to be wrong (hexagram 1)?
Lise writes:

6 at 2: Union of people at the ancestral temple. Distress.
Simple contacts, flexible, open and casual, make people know and love each other. Restrictions and mores - putting people or things in a box - prohibit them to be genuine and true and to appear like they really are.

This interpretation exactly reflects my discomfort...don't like putting people box.

Thank you for any experiences or insight...

G7

I don't know who the answer refers to because of how you worded the question "is K right about X" so its impossible to know if 13.2 refers to K or X or you. You need understand where the answer is coming from. You would know where it applied if you had placed yourself at the centre of the question....which is where you are in any question as if it did not concern you you would not ask...

Ask yourself what you really need to know. You need to know if its a good idea for you to continue to trust the friend and follow your own POV or whether to listen to to K don't you. Personally I'd ask something like " is it good if I continue to be open to X" Asking if someone is right about someone else, whilst not impossible perhaps in some circumstances to interpret, certainly makes it pretty hard to know who the answer is about. If you don't know yourself..no one else will. I have no idea who the 13.2 refers to

Isn't your central concern deciding for yourself if you wish to remain open to X or not. It is afterall your decision and not Ks....so its not really Ks problem, shes made her decision. Your decision is a seperate thing. Presumably she no longer talks about it because she respects you have the right to make your own decision about X and she doesn't want to go on about it and make you uncomfortable...likewise you have to respect her decision. You don't have to agree about X do you.

 

[Trojina]

I guess you could take the answer as descriptive...there are factions, there is often disdain, snobbery..or just being very insular in 13.2, though I don't totally understand the line. So whatever is happening its not good...but its hard to see what your correct response/reaction/position is.

You cannot break with someone just on someone elses say so I suppose unless you have very good reason to believe and trust them why would you listen to them.


Sometimes female friends can be incredibly possessive and jealous so is it a possibilty that K wants to seperate you from X ? I would think this unlikley if she doesn't talk about it anymore. That would suggest to me shes aware you must make your own decision based on the facts as you see them

I don't think generally motives are good in 13.2 which if we take it as answering your question would seem to say Ks motives for trying to make you withdraw from X are not good....but I can't confidently say that because as i said in my last post its not really clear who the 13.2 refers to. It could just as easily be describing the behaviour of X...and saying Y is right that X's motives aren't good towards you.


See this isn't an issue of any question being 'wrong' but an issue of are you going to understand the answer given the complexity of the question in which Yi has to take into account alot of factors and give it back you with all those factors accounted for. It hasn't worked here has it because you don't understand. With ones own questions often one intuitively knows what the answer refers to and theres no problem in complex questions...but here it is very hard for you to know what the answer refers to....and you are at the heart of the question....so how can any one else outside of it know ?