14.2.3>21 Will my new (used) car work out?

[iams girl]

I just bought a 2001 Subaru Outback wagon last week from a used car dealership for the first time ever and thought I got a good deal after a lot of research, checking their maintenance paperwork, and looking around at what else was available. I'll be selling a truck I bought from my son-in-law when I moved into the area last year which is newer, pretty, and fun to drive, but has seemingly never-ending issues and since I'm not prone to being my own mechanic, it's way too expensive to keep.

Today, after only driving the Subaru for the third time the "Check Engine" light came on. Of course, all kinds of doubts cropped up and although I've been reassured by many that it's no big deal, I'm still worried that I didn't make as good of a purchase as I thought. I'll be taking it to a mechanic to have it checked out after work today, but my question is, "What is an image of the long-term health (10 years or more) of my new car? 14.2.3>21.

21 that I'll definitely have (yet more) mechanical issues that I'll need to face? :bag: 14.2 but it will still be a good work horse of a wagon a.k.a. family car? 14.3 if I place it in the care of a good mechanic for regular maintenance?

 

[goddessliss]

Hi iams girl, Sounds to me like this car is gonna be fine and you will be able to help your family no problem. Just as an aside I drove 1997 Hyundai Sonata for about 4 years and it always lit up with check engine and I never got it checked and it never missed a beat. I sold it about 2 years ago cause I could no longer afford to keep two cars and my '73 kombi was my favoured vehicle at the time. - Liss

 

[anemos]

"What is an image of the long-term health (10 years or more) of my new car? 14.2.3>21.

my guess is that 21 is your second-guessing you decision , which is normal even putting aside the "engine warning". Maybe 14.2.3 its the reality of having a good car( 14.2) yet a used one that will require more maintenance compared to a new one... but nothing worrying in those lines or reading overall.

if 14.3 is about the engine light, you need to check it just to be sure, but my guess again, is that its not something serious... maybe the seller hasn't replace the oil or little things of that kind.

have a good ride

 

[sooo]

Hi IAMS,

First, I'd be very suspicious if an engine light comes on right after buying it from a dealership, because it's very easy to make the light go off, but only for a very limited number of miles. So I'd bring the possession back along with this knowledge - all one need due to turn it off is disconnect the battery and connect it again. I just don't believe this was a coincidence, but a way for them to sell the car without paying for a repair. 21 indeed, and bite them good and hard.

There's typically two things that cause the light to come on. It could be as simple as a gas cap. So first I'd take that off and put it back on, being sure to turn it until it clicks three times (most do anyway). But if it isn't that, the second thing typically involves the emission computerized control, or a simple air leak in one of those lines. There's also a valve that needs to be replaced every so many thousand miles. It's not expensive but a typical mechanic will still ding you for the diagnosis, usually a standard fee to hook it up to their computer. If it's a major part it can cost $3-400; that's the worst case scenario.

Well over a year ago my engine light came on. I took it to my regular mechanic who diagnosed it. He/they said the part would cost $300+ to replace. I asked, will it effect performance in any way? He said no. I asked, will it effect emissions in any way. He shook his head no. Standard requirement by bureaucratic EPA, but in reality it effects nothing in a practical way. He only tells me to repair something when it needs it, that's one reason I trust him. The other is that he fixes or replaces what actually needs replacement. He is my "big wagon for loading."

But before I'd go honest mechanic hunting, I'd bring it back to the dealer and say, look I know this light can be shut off temporarily by disconnecting the battery. Now you wouldn't do that, would you? And study their reaction for guilt. I just find it hard to believe they didn't do this knowingly. But before panicking, sometimes simply replacing the gas cap can solve the problem. They cost only a few bucks, and I'd do that after making sure the one on there is seated properly. All it takes is for the vacuum seal to leak and the light comes. If that didn't do it, I'd be in that dealer's face, and sooner than later. The longer it's left the lot, the easier for them to deny liability.

Btw, I just remembered that you're living in or around a pretty big market. Many larger auto parts and mechanic businesses offer free computerized diagnosis. That might be the best first step, even before replacing the gas cap or getting in the dealer's face. mm, second thought, I'd go to the dealer first, thinking of your 21.

The good side is, as Liss mentioned, it's usually not a serious mechanical problem. Nevertheless, I'd follow the above check list.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[iams girl]

Liss - thank you for sharing your sense of confidence in the car, it helps to have an outside perspective that is more objective than mine.

Anemos - I never thought of 21 as second-guessing before, but totally makes sense. 14.3 seemed to mean sacrifice it at the altar of a mechanic to me too.

Sooo - Lo and behold, the light didn't come on this morning, so I didn't know what to think. I'd been driving in heavy rain the day before, I'd checked the oil, and gotten gas - it sounds from your experience that any one of those might have contributed. The dealership is farther away than I could get to after work, so I kept to my plan of having a mechanic (big wagon guy, I like it) I'd used before check it out on their computer just for peace of mind (unfortunately had to pay the $62 fee).

The verdict: the main thing is a "knock sensor" is failing, so I think you were right about being an emission thing. The sensor also effects power and gas mileage though, so sounds like it's worth replacing. Aside from that, the oil pan is "wet" in one corner, so on the verge of leaking, an inner axle seal leaks, and it has a few worn belts. Other than those things, the mechanic said I made a great purchase (that's a relief!). So, between 21 and 14.3 maybe it also means "bite the bullet" and get them fixed and move on with having a good running used car.

 

[anemos]

Anemos - I never thought of 21 as second-guessing before, but totally makes sense. 14.3 seemed to mean sacrifice it at the altar of a mechanic to me too.

When a car owner decides to sell their car they don't fix those little things and usually the dealership don't fix them either - its an expense that usually has no return of investment.(14.3) The time for regular maintenance might not be yet, but worth the investment to make an overall check to know what you have at hand. Some dealership use to offer it as a gift, especially if the have a service department, others offer a "good" price for the car and let the buyer to pay for it. In any case, it is recommended to have that check.

 

[sooo]

Sooo - Lo and behold, the light didn't come on this morning, so I didn't know what to think. I'd been driving in heavy rain the day before, I'd checked the oil, and gotten gas - it sounds from your experience that any one of those might have contributed. The dealership is farther away than I could get to after work, so I kept to my plan of having a mechanic (big wagon guy, I like it) I'd used before check it out on their computer just for peace of mind (unfortunately had to pay the $62 fee).

The verdict: the main thing is a "knock sensor" is failing, so I think you were right about being an emission thing. The sensor also effects power and gas mileage though, so sounds like it's worth replacing. Aside from that, the oil pan is "wet" in one corner, so on the verge of leaking, an inner axle seal leaks, and it has a few worn belts. Other than those things, the mechanic said I made a great purchase (that's a relief!). So, between 21 and 14.3 maybe it also means "bite the bullet" and get them fixed and move on with having a good running used car.

A knock sensor shouldn't cost much. It's a small listening device; one of it's main functions is to test the air/fuel mix; it can affect performance and economy. There's a sure way to diagnose the health of a knock sensor so there should be no guess work as to a properly working or defective sensor.

My sensor perked when you said you gassed up yesterday. That gas cap replacement is the least expensive and most common engine light fix there is. They cost like $7, so it's the first thing I do, replace it, before spending big bucks on mechanics. And even before that, make certain the cap is on securely, most have an audible clicking, which should click several times to make sure it's sealed. If the seal goes, get a new one.

A small oil leak isn't usually a big deal, probably a gasket or it may just require a new plug. Mechanics and oil change shops have been known to incorrectly screw them back in, crossing and thereby destroying the thread integrity. Crazy but its unfortunately true. It's up to them to pay for that repair. But an axle seal is best to take care of, and replacing belts, assuming they're worn, is always a good idea. A broken belt while on the road is a real hassle. I have my belts checked with every 3k mile oil change.

When I buy a used car I build in a $2000 safety margin for just such things, including tires. It usually doesn't cost that much but it's better to be safe than sorry. I think it's wise to fix leaks, bearings, and important sensors, but I'd be careful of getting soaked by mechanics unnecessarily. My engine light is still on and I've no plans to buy that expensive part since the truck runs great as is and I've noticed no performance or efficiency change since it came on. It also passed the state emission test. I lightly told the mechanic, whom I trust, if it doesn't really effect anything, I'd rather spend the money on my guitar, and his response was, so would I.

$62 isn't uncommon for an analysis, but only because few people have their own electronic diagnostic equipment, and the shop has to pay for theirs somehow. In reality, it's an excessive fee from the end user's point. They plug in the sensor and read out the results, that's it. It should pick up a knock sensor's health, but it's easy for a real mechanic to test it before replacing it with a simple voltage meter.

I believe it's true that many mechanics target women to take advantage of, something you're likely already aware of. Make sure your mechanic is not a soaker. You can still get a free diagnostic test by some of the large auto parts stores/shops (Auto Zone, etc), as long as the vehicle is newer than 1996. A free second opinion doesn't hurt. A reminder, that some of those sensors are set to turn the engine light on whether or not its malfunctioning. They can be reset, often for free by a straight up mechanic.

All of this can be inclusive in 21, biting through the obstruction.

Best wishes and smart shopping. :bows:

 

[pocossin]

Lo and behold, the light didn't come on this morning

Sometimes a sensor light will come on when there is poor contact at the battery terminals. I once turned off a sensor light when I cleaned the terminals. I have a failed emissions sensor on my old car, but emissions are fine, and a mechanic neighbor advised me that the difficulty -- and therefore, expense -- of getting to the sensor makes it not worth replacing, so I put black tape over the sensor light. This is a very helpful thread on sensors.

 

[iams girl]

Thanks everyone, it sounds like overall the car will work out if I have decent resources to help me make good decisions about maintenance and repairs.

Sooo - I didn't know about Auto Zone, cool, I'll see what they come up with.

 

[iams girl]

Sometimes a sensor light will come on when there is poor contact at the battery terminals. I once turned off a sensor light when I cleaned the terminals. I have a failed emissions sensor on my old car, but emissions are fine, and a mechanic neighbor advised me that the difficulty -- and therefore, expense -- of getting to the sensor makes it not worth replacing, so I put black tape over the sensor light. This is a very helpful thread on sensors.

I had you in mind wondering about the image; maybe 21.4 relates to the rogue sensor light there in the middle of the dark lines .

Cleaning the battery terminals sounds like good basic maintenance to keep up with too. (A mechanic at another time told me about using regular Coca Cola (not Diet) to clean them which I haven't tried yet.) Black tape over the sensor, now that's a practical solution, lol!

 

[sooo]

Sometimes a sensor light will come on when there is poor contact at the battery terminals. I once turned off a sensor light when I cleaned the terminals. I have a failed emissions sensor on my old car, but emissions are fine, and a mechanic neighbor advised me that the difficulty -- and therefore, expense -- of getting to the sensor makes it not worth replacing, so I put black tape over the sensor light. This is a very helpful thread on sensors.

Disconnecting the battery and connecting it again will always cause the check engine light to turn off. But if the connection isn't the problem, as it may have been in your case, it'll come back on at a predetermined number of miles. I have heard of cases like yours too, where cleaning the terminals for a steady battery connection solves it.

Had to chuckle at your putting tape over the engine light, as that's what the character Penny did on the TV comedy, The Big Bang Theory, a favorite nerd program of mine.

 

[pocossin]

Disconnecting the battery and connecting it again will always cause the check engine light to turn off. But if the connection isn't the problem, as it may have been in your case, it'll come back on at a predetermined number of miles.

This may be exactly what happened. I had inadvertently reset the computer, and the check engine light did not come back on for six weeks because the car was not driven enough to reset the computer.