19.1.2.6>23 and an ex gf who won't go away

[chucklesthegirl]

Hi all,

The guy I am kind of unofficially yet seem to be involved with has a pesky ex girlfriend who pops up from time to time. She sends him pictures, text messages, tells him she misses him....and yet she has a boyfriend. Go figure.

Well, since the guy I am sort of seeing and I are not yet an official item, I am in a sticky position.

Every time she resurfaces, he is upset. This in turn upsets me, naturally since it reminds me of how he is not over her.

So, I asked yi, "what attitude should I take in regards to this situation with this other girl?" and received 19.1.2.6 changing to hexagram 23 as my response.

Now, the guy I am in involved with lives a bit of a distance from me (in another state) but we are going to spend time together in a couple of months. I am going up to visit him for the weekend. Tres romantique, I hope.

Plus, I am planning on moving up there as soon as I finish school and find a job in the city where he lives. The city where he lives is the place I have always wanted to live, so it kind of works out nicely that he is now living there.

It is a bit of an atypical situation but, I am hoping it will work for the best, and he is too. Whether we do end up in a serious relationship or just remain close friends, he and I seem to be stuck with one another

Back to the reading, I am wondering if lines 1 and 2 are alluding to this visit and the line 6 is telling me what attitude to take towards this person's constant need to resurface? Or if the lines are telling me how to hold onto him and just take a noble attitude of a sage as described in line 6? He is still hurting from this girl's lack of loyalty towards him....and it has not been very long since she broke up with him, so i am trying to help him cope with this as best as I can, as hard as it may be given the physical distance.

The resulting 23 has me a bit stumped too. Is that just a way of yi saying for me to let that situation with her dwindle down on it's own, or maybe saying that things are undergoing a transformation or re-haul and I need to kind of hold on and wait the storm out?

23 rarely scares me, but 19 kind of intimidates me a bit. Seems to allude to great promise, but like 16, it seems like a promise with little substance.

If anyone can offer input, i would be most grateful.

Thank you all.
Namaste
:bows:

 

[themis]

Hi,

The IC is confirming that you're moving in the right direction and that the end result will be one
of good fortune. All the lines in Hex 19 are auspicious, line 6 being the most favourable in terms
of a desired outcome. The potential/resulting Hex (23) indicates an oscillation (that's how it manifests for me) hence from this perplexing, unsettling, disturbing situation you and your partner will move in the opposite direction so to speak. Hex 23 mainly suggests stripping away that which is old/obsolete, resulting in renewal.

Bon courage et bonne chance !

 

[chucklesthegirl]

Thank you!

I am trying to remain spiritually focused on the positive instead of looking at the challenges as being definite and insurmountable.

Your input gives me a bit of hope that this is approach is having an effect on the general progress of things.

 

[willowfox]

What attitude?

The best advise is to just try and ignore the girl and her stupid attempts to tempt him. If he starts talking about her, then politely tell him that she is of no concern to you and therefore you don't wish to hear anything about her.

No arguments, no nothing, she doesn't exist in your world. The only way to defeat her is to ignore her.

 

[ginnie]

Every time she resurfaces, he is upset. This in turn upsets me, naturally since it reminds me of how he is not over her.

It's natural he should still be upset. Even ten years down the line, he might still get somewhat upset. Just be glad he doesn't have three ex-wives and 7 children by them!

So, I asked yi, "what attitude should I take in regards to this situation with this other girl?" and received 19.1.2.6 changing to hexagram 23 as my response.

Since you're actually making plans such as you wrote about above, now is the time to step up to this sticky situation, not as a "girl" but as a mature woman. Control yourself and don't stay angry at this 'other girl.' What's the point of that?

You have a lot to give. When he gets upset, use gentle words, Chuckles.

 

[chucklesthegirl]

Thank you, Willow Fox and Ginnie.

I actually did get upset in the beginning and asked him to refrain from bringing her up again when he and I talked.
He understood but it upset and hurt him. He felt like he was being punished somehow. Sadly, it put a barrier up between us communication wise and hurt things a bit.

So, I decided to put aside my feelings of being "threatened" by her and instead be a friend and listen to him.
I figured that it was my role as a friend (we are also good friends) to be there for him and to listen, regardless of my own feelings.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind smacking her around a bit....but I try to keep that to myself

My listening seems to have helped immensely. Just hurts to see him get so down about that situation.

He is such a sweet, kindhearted soul. Her actions caused him to lose trust in her and feel afraid of making commitments unless he was absolutely certain of the other person's sincerity.

This is why we are "unofficial" right now. Hopefully that will change. I care about him a lot. He is worth waiting for so I will be patient.
Lots of hexagram 18 going on here. But the work is being done and I feel hopeful about this.

Namaste!
:bows:

 

[chucklesthegirl]

11 changing to 8 after a blow up

Well, I blew up last night after he brought her up again out of the blue. Blaming it on my hormones which are spiking right now.....I just cannot understand how someone can be so attached to a person who treated them so poorly.

And I am working so hard to make this work. For the past few months, all I have done was work hard to go see him and plan diligently to move up there...and he knows that...and yet, that girl's ghost still lingers.

I asked if he actually wants to be with me or not and go hex 11 changing to 8.

Beginning to wonder if I am wasting my time or not. I am a nice person for the most part but i do have my limits. Playing second fiddle to a girl who has a boyfriend and cannot make up her mind about what she wants and is not willing to make any effort at all is plain ridiculous.

Think I am just kidding myself here.

 

[themis]

"The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of".

Hex. 11.5 depicts the most auspicious situation of all. As it's the top most line in your cast, there
are still a few stages to go through before attaining a state of 'supreme burgeoning converting maidenhood'. The potential Hex is equally encouraging. Guess as you've been so supportive regarding this issue with his ex he feels free to discuss the matter if need be.
He may not necessarily have any feelings for her but the wound is deep and may take ages to heal, he's still somewhat bound to his pain. With time that too shall pass.

As to what you decide to do, the decision is enirely yours; however it certainly seems this chap cares
for you. Really don't think you're kidding yourself. Give it time.

I cannot relate either, to how a person can still be attached to someone who treated them so poorly.
However, bear in mind we're all different in terms of values, perceptions, thresholds of tolerance,
levels of understanding, etc. Perhaps your reaction shook him a bit and might enable him to 'get over' her ... at long last ... release.

 

[mariah kaze]

"The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of".

Hex. 11.5 depicts the most auspicious situation of all. As it's the top most line in your cast, there
are still a few stages to go through before attaining a state of 'supreme burgeoning converting maidenhood'. The potential Hex is equally encouraging. Guess as you've been so supportive regarding this issue with his ex he feels free to discuss the matter if need be.
He may not necessarily have any feelings for her but the wound is deep and may take ages to heal, he's still somewhat bound to his pain. With time that too shall pass.

As to what you decide to do, the decision is enirely yours; however it certainly seems this chap cares
for you. Really don't think you're kidding yourself. Give it time.

Yes, I agree. Furthermore, I think you need to quit fighting him over her. What is jealousy but a combination of fear and anger. What are you afraid of? What are you angry about? Get rid of those negative emotions and just try to understand him without judging him.

[/QUOTE]I cannot relate either, to how a person can still be attached to someone who treated them so poorly.
However, bear in mind we're all different in terms of values, perceptions, thresholds of tolerance,
levels of understanding, etc. Perhaps your reaction shook him a bit and might enable him to 'get over' her ... at long last ... release.[/QUOTE]

Themis, I had been working with abused and neglected children for several years and the same wonder was expressed by a group of teachers, toward a child begging to be re-united with an abusive parent. The insidious thing about abuse is that the person being abused rarely comprehends that they are being abused until they are freed of it for quite some time. Most seem to think that everyone else is getting the same treatment as they are so they minimize the impact on their lives and they willingly go back to what they know is going to be hurtful because they see no other strong attachments in their lives to cling to. Abused children are very difficult to deal with as they have no self-worth unless it is derived from validation by their abuser. Remove the abuser and many times, you remove self-worth.

I hope the leap from abusive parent to abusive lover isn't too big a stretch but from my experience, I can see the parallel. The remedy is to re-assure, re-assure, re-assure that the child is safe, loved and valued. Use praise and take every opportunity to reinforce with reward. Avoid anger, tantrums, severe punishment, or high expectations while the healing process proceeds very much at the child's own capacity for development of self esteem. Above all, be kind. FWIW :bows:

 

[ginnie]

The insidious thing about abuse is that the person being abused rarely comprehends that they are being abused until they are freed of it for quite some time.

I think change terrifies us more than any person.

You may have lost your temper, Chucklesthegirl, because of the upcoming changes in your life. You may be thinking, Why am I going through all this, if he is going to cling to the past like this?

But you really received marvelous moving lines from the I Ching regarding this relationship. You might seek advice from some wise person, because this is some trouble of your own you are going to have to explore. He is not the only one who has to open himself up to scrutiny or self-examination ... What are you expecting from him that makes you so angry, when you think you're not going to get it?

Wouldn't it be even worse if he had never had an ex-girlfriend, or if he had no strong feelings about the breakup of a relationship?

 

[chucklesthegirl]

That's exactly it, Ginnie. I am leaving everything behind to move to another state where he will be the only person there I feel close to and it is scaring me.

Yes, it is the place i want to live and i would move there even if he weren't there.....yet, I have spent so much time trying to help him and trying to let him see that I am trustworthy, but he clings to this other girl who obviously isn't trustworthy at all and who did hurt him.

I think I need to do some soul searching to see just how realistic I am being about all of that. Whatever actions I have taken and choices i have made are of my own making. Just not sure how in the world I can continue on trying so hard hoping that maybe someday he will forget all about her when that very well may never happen.

Just do not want to delude myself or put myself through an ordeal (and my child as well since she will be there in the new state with me) when it could very possibly lead to heartache and disappointment.

My trust issues are flaring up right now. Not sure how healthy my take is on all this. I apologized to him and am still going to spend time with him and I guess just maintain everything as best as I can. I am thinking that balance is needed on my part to keep things from going haywire.

 

[willowfox]

I asked if he actually wants to be with me or not and go hex 11 changing to 8.

Yes he does want to be with you, but he is still being hesitant, as she is still has a lot of influence in his life at present.

Ask him why she is still such a powerful attraction for him.

The ghost of christmas past needs to be exorcised once and for all.

 

[chucklesthegirl]

Thank you Willow Fox. I will ask, though he may not quite understand the attachment either. To be honest, I think it has more to do with her ghost being some sort of protective scab. He clings to that to keep from being hurt again. Why remove the scab and let fresh air hit the vulnerable tissue beneath? That big ugly scab may be cumbersome but it is less risky than exposing the wound to further harm.

I am still thinking over what has been said in this thread and trying to understand why I am so angry/afraid and to be honest, I think the huge changes I am about to initiate have me feeling uneasy.

I did a reading about why I am reacting this way towards him and got 33.3>12 as the response.

I think that is the image of a person undergoing some sort of strange circumstance where they have to seek shelter as best as they can and take with them the best resources they have available to ensure they can make it through the rough times.

Maybe I am afraid of being unable to count on him? And this is causing me to feel anxious about moving and starting over since he will be my primary source of friendship and such once I move...hrm. Something to think about.
My trust issues have been surfacing and they make it difficult to see the forest for the trees.

Thank you everyone for being so kind and offering input and encouragement. I really appreciate it a lot.

Namaste

 

[willowfox]

I did a reading about why I am reacting this way towards him and got 33.3>12

You have become to emotionally attached making you now feel possessive about him, so the thought of the "other" turns you green because he still has her prominently on his mind. Therefore you need to overcome this by drawing back, as it very draining, holding on to this negativity. So, nobody can make you happy as that comes from within yourself.

If she's a scab then tear her off quickly and it won't hurt much, picking at it just keeps everyone's thoughts on it. Probably about time to tell him that three is a crowd, and only two can tango at the same time.

 

[Trojina]

Thank you Willow Fox. I will ask, though he may not quite understand the attachment either. To be honest, I think it has more to do with her ghost being some sort of protective scab. He clings to that to keep from being hurt again. Why remove the scab and let fresh air hit the vulnerable tissue beneath? That big ugly scab may be cumbersome but it is less risky than exposing the wound to further harm.

I am still thinking over what has been said in this thread and trying to understand why I am so angry/afraid and to be honest, I think the huge changes I am about to initiate have me feeling uneasy.

I did a reading about why I am reacting this way towards him and got 33.3>12 as the response.

I think that is the image of a person undergoing some sort of strange circumstance where they have to seek shelter as best as they can and take with them the best resources they have available to ensure they can make it through the rough times.

Maybe I am afraid of being unable to count on him? And this is causing me to feel anxious about moving and starting over since he will be my primary source of friendship and such once I move...hrm. Something to think about.
My trust issues have been surfacing and they make it difficult to see the forest for the trees.

Thank you everyone for being so kind and offering input and encouragement. I really appreciate it a lot.

Namaste

FWIW I think your misgivings are wholly normal and warranted. Why would you expect yourself to be all okay with a man who still keeps his ex in a rather prominent place in his life and draws you in by talking about her etc. If it was just plain friendship between them now fair enough but i get the impression hes still exhibiting ambivalence to you about who he wants to be with as a girlfriend. I feel you need to remember its him you have the problem with not the ex. Its up to him to make his mind up who he wants and frankly if he wants to keep you I'd think he'd need to make his mind up fairly soon.

Just don't go thinking your reactions to this are wrong etc, they seem perfectly healthy and normal to me.

You are thinking over and worrying over why hes doing what hes doing...but meanwhile is anyone, him or her, considering this is not great for you...? Think of yourself here, this situation seems draining for you whilst these 2 play out their dramas like you weren't there.


Sorry nothing about readings here just an opinion.(which is okay here occasionally i understand)...since you seem to have been grappling with this a while i felt an urge to give it

PS I think its normal for everyone to think about their ex sometimes even when with their new partner....but most people would know not to drone on and on about their ex with their new partner. I recall seeing it as a rule for dating "do not spend the date droning on about your ex..its a real turn off". I don't think its great in a established relationship either. Maybe telling him its a bit of a turn off...and could turn you off for good, might help focus his mind on whether he wants to spend his time and energy on her or you. If he wants rid of her, he can get rid of her. If hes deflecting the whole problem onto her then hes just offloading responsibility.


Attempting the actual reading 19>23. There can be new growth, a new spring (19) in the relationship when you've stripped off all the useless, undermining influences (23) but hex 19 takes work, doesn't just happen. perhaps you have to do some 23 before you can get the fresh growth in 19. Bearingin mind your main problem here is with him, not your attitude to the girl IMO

33.3 shows you have given 'inferior' things too much say in how things go, you needed at some point to be more decisive rather than await on the will of 'servants' but you are stuck with consequences of handing power over to those you did not need to give power at all....so of oourse you feel angry..its like being held back by those who have no authority to hold you back but for seem reason at some point you gave them that authority and now have to work with them.

I'd see this as you've been tolerant of all this so far, so the situation has continued and you seem to be stuck with it...thats why you are angry because in truth it was never really something that was reasonable to tolerate in the first place. Of course you are angry ! Who wouldn't be. But focus it where it belongs, not on her or what shes doing, but on whats happening with him and you

 

[sooo]

Hi Chuckles,

I admire your magnanimous approach (your 19.6) toward this situation, but you also have a right to be considered as well as being considerate. Once or twice to make you aware of this struggle in him is understandable, but not to repeatedly make her the centerpiece or interrupting force in your relationship.

Unless you can be content with a platonic friendship with this fellow, he needs to move on, and do it quickly, if he truly wants you as an intimate partner rather than as a mother or buddy. Maybe ask him. It's a fair question.

It's tricky, because sometimes guys are trying to share their true emotions (something we are encouraged to do these days with women), and aren't thinking clearly that the one they are telling it to is being emotionally hurt, simply because it involves another woman. Guys aren't very smart about some things.

There's another possibility, or strings to the complex. He may be fishing for a reaction from you which reminds him of this other girl. He may be developing a fetish for a certain kind of reaction or treatment. Wouldn't be surprising if that personage was that of his mother. And maybe that needs to be stripped in order to be discovered, and discovered so that it actually can be stripped.

 

[themis]

As there's a child involved, your child, I'd say her welfare is of utmost importance - security and stability, etc. will be affected.

This lingering issue with his ex is something he must work out and overcome himself, even if
you're always there to provide support and show empathy. If you have any feelings of fear, best
to reflect quietly on the matter. There's no rush, no sense in moving soon if it's not the right
thing to do in the near future. Surely he should show some commitment to you if you're actually moving to live with him. This will be a major step you'll be taking.

Seek signs from the universe, follow your instincts, go with your gut. FWIW

 

[themis]

Mariah,

I understand your point. It's a vicious circle and self-esteem/dignity play a determining role.

 

[ginnie]

I did a reading about why I am reacting this way towards him and got 33.3>12 as the response.

It's nerve wracking, because now you're not sure you're free to leave.

Maybe something to do with your daughter?

 

[ginnie]

If you have any feelings of fear, best to reflect quietly on the matter. There's no rush, no sense in moving soon if it's not the right thing to do in the near future.

I agree with this. This probably corresponds with 11.2 > 36 line reading in the h11 reading.

Help him from a safe distance for now, Chucklesthegirl. There's too much at risk for you to move to where he lives right now.

I know you feel you really want to be with him and help him, because he's one of the good guys, but still --

Maybe you were the big sister in your family. That's what I am thinking. Because you seem ready to assume responsibility for him as if he were your little brother. But the thing is ... while that's ok in general ... not the worst thing ... it'll wear you out over time if you keep on like this.

 

[danadanadana]

19.1.2.6>23: Given the positive reading, I would say that 23 indicates that his past relationship is over and done, and he is on the verge of a new relationship with you, indicated by 19.1.2.6 that is very promising indeed. It is possible that your boyfriend feels emotionally more deeply connected to you when you express your anger about the "other woman". This moment of green-eyed jealousy is when your desire for him is most clearly communicated to him - when you are angry about HER. Then, he gets it. the "other women" is like a puppet he holds up to provoke you into expressing your deeper feelings for him. Maybe you can express these raw, deeper emotions more often without provocation? Hope this helps.
-danadanadana

 

[chucklesthegirl]

Thank you everyone. You are all so kind and generous for taking the time to help me with this!
I am truly grateful for your support.

Willow Fox, I have actually tried that. I have even asked him if he wants me to back off so that the two of them could try to work out their issues. I asked this as recent as last week. He said absolutely not, so I am thinking he really is just having some lingering feelings associated with something that happened between them that has nothing to do with me.

Only, it bothers me so it does have quite a bit to do with me.

Trojan, thank yo so much for your feedback and validation of my anger. I really care about him and am trying to be fair with him, just like you said though, I have to consider my own feelings and involvement in this situation, especially since i am going to be moving up there in maybe a year's time once I secure a job and an apartment.

To be fair, we have discussed what will happen with our relationship once I move, and he said that it will be much easier to have a solid trusting relationship with me once I am there. He doesn't trust long distance relationships at all. I can understand that. Too much nerve wracking emotions go along with that sort of commitment.

Themis and Ginnie, I agree. Since my daughter is young and will not have her father around, she needs to be in as stable and caring an environment as possible, which is why I am being so hesitant with this situation. He is a great guy, patient, caring and etc, just wish things were more settled and less erratic with the ghost of that other girl and the distance.

I brought this up a few days ago when i was talking to him and he said it is not just her....he has had similar experiences with other girls treating him badly and lying and he is wary of getting his hopes up too high about he and I working out. Yet, he hopes it does work out. He is just emotionally preparing himself for disappointment if it doesn't.

In my heart, I know it will work out and work out beautifully. But the lingering ghost thing bothers me (obviously haha or else i wouldn't have posted this thread) and I am trying to remain unfettered about that and the outcome of the relationship....I would really like him to commit to me....he wants to wait to see how things are after we spend more time together in the city he lives in.
He wants the both of us to be sure before he makes a commitment because he takes them seriously, which is a good thing.

So, on one hand, i can understand the logic behind this, it seems sound, yet his reluctance to tell that ex to take a hike bothers me.

Such a strange place to be emotionally. I think the 11.2 is a very accurate description of what is going on here and the advice to maintain a middle ground is wise. At least inwardly to keep myself from going loopy.

So, for now, I am focusing on my daughter, getting all my ducks in a row, keeping my promise to be there in October and working on maintaining the relationship from a safe distance (as Ginnie said) and just trying to keep the faith that no matter how things turn out, they will work out for the best in the end.

Dana, I have wondered about that too. I think Soooo brought it up as well. Maybe the jealousy I express is somehow a validation for him and helps him feel secure?
Not sure. i will have to ponder this.

I will definitely be seeking more spiritual guidance and doing more meditating. Need to nourish myself a bit before i dwindle down to nothing trying to help everyone feel safe and loved.

I'm such a typical Cancer it's not even funny.

Oh, I did a reading last night asking what kind of relationship he wants with me....37.2.4.6>31

Yi is being very supportive to me right now and helping me realize that I am a good person with a ton of love to give (hex 42.5>27 creeps up a lot) and that my move to the new city will be advantageous (14.5>1 and 55.3.4.5>3). I also asked if my daughter will be happy there and got 33.1.2.6>43....which sounds positive given how we will be retreating from a rather lonely existence here and moving to a place where she will be surrounded by more children her own age and more things for the two of us to do.

Just hope I can manage to hang in there until then.

Namaste
:bows:

 

[ginnie]

asking what kind of relationship he wants with me....37.2.4.6>31

37.2 is the traditional restricted woman's role, but it broadens out in a balanced way in 37.4.

37.6 is 'the woman with the ax' -- a woman who inspires respect. He wants a harmonious home life, with someone other than himself ultimately in charge.

 

[chucklesthegirl]

I am sorry, Ginnie. I wrote down the changing lines incorrectly.
Hexagram 37 with lines 1, 4 and 6 changing. Line 2 does not change.

Hrm, woman with the axe. That's interesting, I have never heard of the 6th changing line described that way before. Is that because the entire hexagram is based on the strength of a woman to keep the dynamic together and since the yang line is changing to yin, the sage placement is seen as a strong, capable woman offering her views?

I am completely fascinated with this take on the changing line.

 

[willowfox]

I did a reading last night asking what kind of relationship he wants with me....37.1.4.6>31

***The normal type of bf/gf relationship but I sense a dependency on his part, he needs you, he needs support.

 

[chucklesthegirl]

What gives you that impression, Willow Fox?

 

[willowfox]

What gives you that impression, Willow Fox?

Just something about Hex 37 showing up before Hex 31.

He needs you.

 

[chucklesthegirl]

Just something about Hex 37 showing up before Hex 31.

He needs you.

You know, it's really strange because in a way I feel like I need him too. If I don't get to talk to him for a few days because he is busy with work or things are just keeping us apart, I feel strange...like I left the house without wearing shoes.
Never really felt that way about someone before.

 

[themis]

You need each other and the universe has brought you together ... that's nice ! With all the trials
and tribulations, just give it time. The old sage is always at least a step ahead of us so with all the
auspicious responses, I guess the IC 'sees' that you'll succeed in persevering, with determination.
The chap in question will also realise the depth of your sincerity, loyalty and commitment. Sounds
like he'd be a good and suitable father figure for your daughter.

You'll know when the timing is right, when to make the final decision to move, a step forward in a new
and bright direction.

 

[ginnie]

I am sorry, Ginnie. I wrote down the changing lines incorrectly.
Hexagram 37 with lines 1, 4 and 6 changing. Line 2 does not change.

Hrm, woman with the axe. That's interesting...Is that because the entire hexagram is based on the strength of a woman to keep the dynamic together and since the yang line is changing to yin, the sage placement is seen as a strong, capable woman offering her views?

37.6: Because of her capacities, and because she considers everything and is thoughtful of everyone, she is respected tremendously.

Line 1 moving is about making all the rules clear right from the start. Agreements need to be hammered out, almost like drawing up written contracts and policies for an organization! ... Go for the win-win solutions. This stage might take some time ... because it is the opposite of blindly rushing in without considering the consequences.