20.1.6 changing to 3

[lysithea]

My significant other has been acting distant (VERY distant) for the past couple of days so I asked the IChing where does he stand regarding our relationship. I got 20.1.6 chanching into 3
My take on it is that he is backing off a little bit because he needs to think before taking the next step. From line one i get that he is not very stable yet (he is like the child) so things are not clear for him. From line six i get that eventually he will grow into the noble man and get his act together, though the road ahead is not without trouble (Hex 3).
This is my take on it but i might be FAR off, so i would apreciate some insight. Pretty please?
Thanks

 

[peter2610]

Hex 20,1,6 > 3

Hi Lysithea,

This is just my opinion but I would say that the answer you've received is referring to your take on this rather than describing your partner's views or feelings. We can work out where we stand with other people from the readings we receive but the I Ching doesn't have, as far as I know, a 'third person' mode that enables it to switch directly into describing someone else's personal thoughts. Having said that, it will give uncannily accurate descriptions of our relationships, from which we can assess another person's position. The answer you've received is almost undoubtably describing your own view, IMHO.

Hex 20 is about how we view a given situation. First yin - 'Boylike contemplation...' suggests a partial view or, more likely, that you're reading too much into the situation. Top yang is suggesting that you try to take a more detached view, stand back and try to take a wider perspective.
That's about the yin and the yang of it. This reading isn't criticizing you in any way, it's just suggesting that there's nothing untoward going on, you just need to step back a little. Outside the I Ching I would just add that many guys need to go into their 'cave' now and then, just try not to read too much into it until he comes out again. Peter

 

[lysithea]

makes sense

Actually that makes a lot of sense. So basically the IChing is telling me i am making a big fuzz about stuff by being imparcial and that i should step back and let things unfold? Makes a helluva lot sense now
I'm still puzzled over the related hexagram though

 

[knotxx]

This was my weekly reading last week. I can tell you that the week seemed to be quite a bit more 3 than 20 but that is quite likely because I was doing it wrong (I find 20 a little hard to understand). Anyway, just to suggest you not neglect the 3 aspect of this reading -- a situation rich with potential but currently too new and chaotic to do anything about. Perhaps he has some new perspective on your relationship.

 

[lysithea]

hopefully

Well i am certainly hoping his new take on things is positive because i am getting a bit (OK, A LOT) negative. I still can't grasp the meaning of the relating hexagram though, could you be more specific knot?

 

[peter2610]

Related Hexagram

The related Hex 3, Difficulty at the Beginning, represents a period of initial difficulty and confusion as we struggle to manage and comprehend a situation. It can describe a condition in which the various factors and components of a situation start to fall apart rather than work in cohesion. Hence its imagery is full of horses and wagons coming apart, man and wife glaring at each other etc. It's a transitional situation that, with perseverance, can be resolved.
None of this means that you and your partner are going to fall apart or start 'glaring' at each other, it simply reflects the likely confusion and misunderstanding within your own 'take' on the relationship (Hex 20). The ruling line of Hex 3, 'Difficulties in blessing...' describes a situation in which a person's conduct is 'distorted' and misunderstood - this is possibly a literal (if overly strong) description of your take on your partner's behaviour. Peter

 

[ace]

Where does he stand regarding our relationship? 20. 1, 6 >3

Watching and being watched in difficult beginnings. Gaining perspective in order to make a new start.

20 has usually meant for me a time of reflection, perspective-taking, or watching/being watched. Here an outpost tower allows one to see great distances, but also allows one to be seen from great distances. I have received it as little picture seeing, or big picture seeing, or both. So, the distance you experienced may be his stepping back to get perspective, and it allows you to get perspective.

20.1 may be an immature, individualistic perspective. LISE (20.1) says this, " to see without consequence is not of much value". Hatcher (20.1) says this, "you do have the simplified view, plenty of colours on the surface of things and lots of details at random. You are sure of yourself and your place at the centre of things and are ready to question at least". I think you said that this might be what he has now: childlike perspectives.

20.6 may be a more mature, interpersonal/relational perspective. LISE (20.6) says, "if you life is good in your own eyes has a lot to do with other people", and LISE speaks of love here. Hatcher (20.6) says, "the vision must reach through time, to where we have been and where we are going" , and "life is all of our lives and all of our relations, a full circle of different perspectives". This might be what he is trying to incorporate into his vision.

3 is a difficult new beginning or a beginning into potential.

Perhaps, the stepping back you refer to is helping him get perspective for a new beginning, perhaps the new level that you speak of. He maybe watching himself, you, the relationship, the big picture, and timing.

 

[gene]

lysithea

I agree with the interpretations being offered here. I might just add that with line 1 and 6 changing, the two lines are "far apart" from each other. I suspect that there is a separation in your view of things, each seeing things a little differently. While I don't know the context of that, one thing that can often separate people at the very least, temporarily, is coming on too strong, or wanting too much too early. In fact, I think this happens very often in relationships when they are just getting started, more than people realize, and both men and women do it. It tends to scare the partner away. People who act disinterested (not totally of course, but in terms of pursuing a higher goal) often do better in relationships. I don't know if this is the case or not, but would certainly fit with hexagram 3 in the sense of having difficulty in the beginning.

Just some thoughts.
Gene

 

[lysithea]

makes lots of sense

Everything you are saying, wether it is by interpreting as my take or his on the situation, makes a lot of sense. Which is kind of discouraging.
To give you all some context. This person and I we were on a relationship for a year and a half and we were going to get married but he called off the engagement because he said he wasnt ready and was confused. That was 6 months ago. After all that, things are very weird between us, we've been without talking to eachother for a while, then back into being in touch. Last week he said he misses me but he isnt sure if he misses me because he loves me or because he is alone and he doesnt want to rush things. After that, indifference for a couple of days, then he calls me one day and everything seems to be fine and looking promising. And then complete indifference again. Until last night. I was online late last night and I saw him on MSN so I said the hell with it, lets have some fun and stop being so gloomy about things. We started talking, I was feeling kind of playful so I started to sort of tease him but he shutted me off, he expressed his frustration over me not feeling comfortable to have actual sex with him. To be honest, I am not ready for that yet, things are unstable between us to resume our physical, sexual lives together, though I do feel comfortable with flirting and being playful. He was clearly annoyed, he said he was tired and left.
I wanted to make my point clear, so i wrote him a short email explaining to him that i didnt feel comfortable with it as I said before and that i didnt think he would respect me as a woman if i did things I wasnt comfortable with just to please him and that in a way i thought that teasing him tonight (the way we used to tease eachother when the relationship was just starting and it wasnt physically sexual) was like common ground. I told him that I did want him and that I understood why he wanted things to get sexual, but I just couldnt do it with how things were with us (hot and cold, unstable)
Anyhow... In light of the new developments I asked another question to the IChing:

"What consequences will bring the talk we had last night and the email I sent".

The answer was discouraging, to say the least.
12.2 Turning into 6
Hex 12. Things are blocked. No matter what I say or do, there is no empathy, there is no understanding.
12.2. Don't quite understand the changing line. I read somewhere else that it meant something in the likes of being true to ourselves and not to "worship" other people and try to get on their good side by being all over them saying how nice/smart/funny they are. I don't know if that's accurate. I would welcome insight.

Hex 3: Arguing. I think the advice here is about not being defiant (as the description of the hexagram says) because if I am that way I'll end up closing myself to positive aspects of things. On the other hand I am worried that whatever I do regarding this situation will turn into arguing, fighting, etc. so it's pertty much a dead end situation.

I'm sorry to write such a long post. Some of you may understand how heart wrenching such a situation can be, where you deeply love someone but theres so much baggage on things that just a simple conversation jeopardizes everything. Hanging from a thread, walking on eggshells. You are complete strangers who don't know me, yet have been so nice to help me understand readings about my personal life and share wisdom with me. I thank you from the bottom of my heart, because this is so important to me. So important I am resorting to this to get new perspectives, because I honestly don't know what else to do and I'm incredibly sad. I know some people can relate to that.

A ton of blessings for all, you are definitely in my heart

 

[gene]

I don't have my I Ching books with me right now, Lys, but I don't have a good feeling about this. You are looking forward to marriage, he is looking forward to sex, at least that's what it sounds like. That is a source of contention (hexagram 6) and creating a block in your relationship. When I can get to my books I will look at it a little more. Hopefully the two of you can work it out, but I don't have good feelings about the way he is treating you. (I'll admit I don't know the whole story.)

Gene

 

[ace]

"What consequences will bring the talk we had last night and the email I sent".
12.2>6

Standstill in the context of contention. Heaven and earth are moving in opposite direction. Heaven's energy is moving up (you to your ideas/standards/mind), and earth's energies down (him to his embodiedness/body/sexual needs/emotions [rejection]). This opposite movement is creating the contention/conflict.

12.2 is the bridge between 12 and 6, or the bridge between standstill (no movement) and contention (movement that creates friction/conflict). The standstill is creating the conflict, which in turn further enforces the standstill. You both are polarized and battling to get the other to see your own side of things. But, heaven is not wrong, and earth is not wrong. Therefore, neither can win. I think line 2 is pointing this out. So, choose your battles carefully (Hatcher 12.2), and adapt and don't have ambitions here (LISE 12.2).

Looking back ... I think Gene's 20.1,6>3 was correct. You both were looking at the relationship fundamentally differently. You were looking at it from commitment perspective to move the relationship to a new level, and he was looking at it from a sexual perspective to move the relationship to a new level. The 12.2>6 sort of points out the 3 from the first reading, or the **difficulty** of the new beginning.

 

[lysithea]

i agree. Tough situation.
@ace: let me know what you find, as bad as it might be

blessings to all of you

 

[ginnie]

was like common ground...."What consequences will bring the talk we had last night and the email I sent". The answer was discouraging, to say the least. 12.2 Turning into 6.

12.2. Don't quite understand the changing line.

so it's pertty much a dead end situation.

Yes, so sad. You thought you were creating common ground, but since he won't respond the same way, then there is no common ground.

I think 12.2 signifies that you shouldn't waste your time explaining things to this man. At least right now, Lysithea. If he doesn't get it, then he doesn't get it.

 

[ace]

oops ... not sure what I am looking for?? As for the looking back, I meant to the initial reading of 20.1,6,>3. I think the second reading sheds light on the first reading, at least for me.

 

[lysithea]

lol

don't worry ace. Any advice on what kind of question to ask to a better understanding of the situation?

 

[peter2610]

Hex 12,2 > 6

Hi Lys,

If you want to ask another question regarding your partner I'd suggest a general open question such as 'How should I now proceed in my relationship with...' This should give you further detail but it's important that you keep in mind your previous readings when interpreting any further answers.

Second yin in Hex 12 describes a situation in which you are urged to stand your ground, for the time being at least. Don't compromise your self-respect for the sake of a union at any cost. To 'bear and endure' means to endure the inferior aspects of human nature. Carol Anthony gives a useful commentary on this line: 'On witnessing the manifestation of people's inferior nature, our own inferiors become discouraged by the course of events and complain. They cease to trust the power of inner truth, and disengagement.' The Fan Yao for this line also urges you to disengage rather than provoke further conflict.

The nuclear hexagrams give Hex 53,1 > 37, emphasizing that time is a key factor in this situation, and the importance of establishing a correct basis for any relationship. Having landed on the shore, the wild geese have lost their formation and order; they face the nuclear trigram K'an, danger, hence Wilhelm's commentary for first yin - 'This is a yielding line in a lowly place. Therefore it is not impetuous in pressing forward; it is conscious of the danger...'

This reading isn't saying that your relationship is over, it's simply urging you to stand your ground for the time being. If you seek a reunion on an incorrect basis you will compromise your self-regard and cause inner conflict -Hex 6. Give the situation time and space to unfold. You should only move forward on a correct basis.

Hope this helps,

Peter

 

[ace]

I like Peter's question.

I also might sit and really think about what advice would be most useful in this challenging time; for me, this can be an important step for gaining clarity and direction. When possible, I try to orient my questions towards me (e.g., my attitude, my behaviour, my feelings, my next step in) because I can change me but I can't change others. However, from time to time, I do ask about other's perspectives and attitudes, as these are useful for gaining perspective or insight. Or, I will ask about the situation (e.g., what will be the outcome of this action, what is the next step of development for, what is the current state of); these can help me orient to a situation. Additionally, I try to keep my questions open; I prefer How or What. And, I try to ask only one well thought-out question at a time. It gives me more time to really understand what the advice is and how it applies to my situation. Although, this can be tough in a situation with a lot of vagueness or darkness or anxiety.

The classic (and Hilary's suggestion) ... HELP! Although not a technically a question, its sentiments seem to get the job done.

I hesitate to tell you what the next question should be because only you know the breadth and depth of the situation, and only you know what you need at this difficult time.

Much peace and may the dawn come soon ... a.

 

[gene]

Lys

I think here line two is saying, don't give in to the pressure. It seems your boyfriend is more interested in sex than anything else. If you go this route, will he give you what you want? Who knows, but there is a good chance he will not. Stand true to your principles and do not allow yourself to be pressured.

Gene

 

[lysithea]

Ok, here goes nothing....

In light of the wonderful advice everyone has been giving, I asked another question.
What attitude should I have to improve my relationship with XXX? (lol, i hope the oracle understands broken english)
The answer was
34.2.4 with related Hexagram 36
34: Stand strong, be resilient and consistent, yet at the same time, do not abuse power, should stay humble.
34.2: Being constant brings good fortune
34.4: With perseverance, the obstacles will move away. The focus should be in inner development (mine) more than pushing for external situations to change. If I keep being consistent and working on me (as Ace said, it's easier for one to change, not so much when you try to change the other), things will get better. I read somewhere (not IChing related) that when we change, people around us respond to that better than when we try to change them. I think the focus is on being or transforming myself in the best I can be.
Related Hexagram 36: "Brightness Hidden". I think it's telling me that, in the meantime, while I work on me, I shouldn't be portraying myself as the one who "knows it all" or has all the answers and is always right. I should be cautious, discreet, yet kind and considering.
Is the related hexagram a consequence, an outcome or an aid to somehow "complete" what's being said by the primary hexagram? If I take it as an aid, I could interpret it (36) as the complementary attitude I should have in order to attain what's being said in 34.4. If it is an outcome though, I'm kind of lost on how to interpret it.

 

[ace]

What attitude should I have to improve my relationship with XXX?

34.2,4,>36

34 This is a hexagram with lots of male energy in it (i.e., dad and big brother). So, it is big and strong, persistent and determined. Hatcher (34) says, "power will have a proper path and it is usually on it: it will go where the world opens up to it" and 'it is hard for a thing to be great if it is not also correct", and "persistence across and through time is different than pounding and blundering forward: it might even pause to sense some new direction to go, new choices opening up, and so it's a form of intelligence". LISE (34) writes, "never rigid but able to cope with every challenge". For me, this hexagram has warned me of too much rigidity or bull-headedness. So, I have had to find the difference between bull-headedness and standing strong. So, for me it has been flexibility in power and strength. LISE's image of the stone man having life blown into him helps me.

34 may be saying be strong and determined in your position, but not so much so that you cannot see or create openings for moving forward. There also is an element of moving forward or applying force in the correct way. As I read your posts, I wondered if sex is just the symptom here, rather than the problem. I wondered if your caution stemmed from the engagement break of 6 months ago, and then all of the off/on, hot/cold, fine/not fine, and close/distance experiences. Also, I wondered about his confusion of 6 months ago, and I wonder how this was playing in here. Thus, your need for clarity and stability makes a lot of sense for me.

34.2 Great line. LISE (34.2) states "having power is not a matter of exerting it, but of being it" and "making your mind true and positive". Hatcher (34.2) states" one balances the force with restraint. Momentum and inertia are very handy things, but they will fight any change in direction. Equilibrium is just as important". This might mean finding a path of least resistance. Perhaps, moving from an either/or position, to a both/and position.

34.4 Another great line. LISE (34.4) states "there are many ways of making big power from a little force", and "sparingly used power brings the greatest results". Hatcher (34.4) states "power revolves around what works, the finding and opening up of the possible", and Hatcher (34.4) uses the image of a person on a battering-ram trying the door knob instead of smashing the door down. This line is advising that great movement can be made from small actions, ones that you are not thinking of or attending to. There are lots and lots of ways to break through this barrier, but busting or ramming your way through it NOT one of them. It is the little things that will make the great movement.

36 Interesting resulting hexagram. LISE (36) states "Hide your light, so nobody can blow it out. Be careful and modest in every you do and show, and not to evoke obstructions. Do not deny obstructive forces, explore them and recognize them, so you know what measures to take or how to circumvent them". Keep your light covered. Be strategic with the expression of your wants, desires, needs. At this time, best to keep this on the down-low.

I think this overall might be saying, stand strong in your convictions, but don't force it or become rigid about it. Look for the paths of connection not mired in "either/or". Find the door-knobs that open the way, don't try t smash through the door. So perhaps, caution about forcing the issue or polarizing the issue. **Be** the greatness/powerful that he fell in love with over the last 2 years. This hexagram and your lines are about "being determined" and about "being smart about being determined". Both lines are "determination, auspicious". However, I would not put all my cards on the table; keep your true position or desires quiet and hidden. Be strategic in this strength.

 

[lysithea]

thanks

ok ace, without wanting to cross any boundaries, i kinda love you
you are right, i might be overly cautious. 6 months ago, when he broke off the engagement, i was devastated. i always knew he had issues with making decisions because we encountered situations (although not like that one) in the past. he would be sure about something according to his words, but then if anyone said otherwise he would get confused and eventually change his mind.
when he asked me to marry him, i was over the moon, so happy, but shortly after, i started to feel concerned and cautious because he started to have second thoughts. he told his family he wanted to marry me and even though they weren't against it, most of them weren't so excited about it. his brother told him to be "careful" because i might be a gold digge. the only one rooting for us was his mother, but he doesn't get along with her that much anyways. he started to show concern, i supported him, but then he started to shut me off, became distant, i freaked out, we started fighting, then he broke off the egangement and the relationship itself. so yes, i am overly cautious because i don't know if i could stand becoming vulnerable again (sex for me is emotional) just to find him going cold the next day and leave me feeling like a XXXX-buddy. If i had more consistency from his side, if i actually felt some stability, then i would consider it, but right now, i'm not getting that, partially because according to his view of things, he won't have "boyfriend" behaviors with me unless he was actually my boyfriend or at least 100% sure he wanted to get back with me. By boyfriend behavior he means for example calling or seeing eachother every day, being exclusive, etc. Considering he was going to be my husband, I would apreciate more stability if we are going to rebuild our relationship.
We will see how things go, i really want our relationship back on track, but its going to take work. I am up for the task though and happy to be having a chance, i only want to find the right way to do it for it to be succesful and rebuilding our relationship over strong foundations. will most definitely follow the advice