21.3 > 30 : Spiritual benefit of shamanism

[qafinaf]

Hi all,

I've been having a hard time making a decision, asking I Ching over and over in various ways, never sure what the response means. My thoughts are unstable I guess and when I make up my mind, it doesn't "take" and the next day I'm wondering again what I should do. I'm wanting to go on a trip, to explore South American shamanism. I am aware there are dangers involved. Yet I am willing to face them if there is true spiritual benefit along that course.

This morning I ask: "Please comment on if I go ahead to South America" and receive 2.6 > 23.

Then I ask "Comment on the effect on my spiritual growth of my going" and receive 21.3 > 30.

LiSe's reading of 21 is curiously specific:

"To make real changes in life, one needs the powers of a shaman. No biting through the obsolete is possible when one is locked inside one’s normal, everyday and all-too-human flesh. A shaman can leave his body, fly to strange places and come back with a changed mind. He can see through illusions because he can fly higher. He can throw away habits because he is no prisoner of himself.
"Humanity has always used drugs, they make it easier to be a shaman, but unfortunately they usually forgot they had also teeth. Even the best shaman needs in the first place good teeth."

I'm not sure what the changing line indicates. I'm tempted to read this as there's something that needs must be bitten through. In biting through, there are some deeper issues that are released. I can't tell if it's says that doing this would be constructive or if it would just muddy the waters. And what of the change to 30?

If someone can shed some light on this situation through these readings, I'd very much appreciate it.

John

 

[anemos]

This morning I ask: "Please comment on if I go ahead to South America" and receive 2.6 > 23.

Then I ask "Comment on the effect on my spiritual growth of my going" and receive 21.3 > 30.

Hi,

Just a couple of thoughts that are my first impressions of your readings.

Your first one might be you difficulty to make your mind , you fight it (2.6) and maybe , somehow , you need to go deeper(23) why that happens. The other one seems a bit positive while not easy as you said too. H30 always is not clear to me ( pun not indented ) But here, maybe its about "taking care your cow" which seems to be the reasons might considering that course of action. Due to my limited knowledge on how those things work ( shamanism) I can't say more. Maybe someone knows better, could make other associations and read your castings different. To me , the first reading indicates an obstacle and maybe the other refers to that too.

 

[ginnie]

These two readings are not good for going. Just looking at 21.3, the experience of being there would be like getting poisoned. If I were you, I'd take this line pretty seriously. You might spend more time investigating the different types of shamanism and maybe another, more healthy, course of action will open for you. All best wishes to you!

 

[blue_angel]

I agree with Ginnie, if I got these lines I would not go on this trip. Sound dangerous and difficult, poisonous even.

Blue_Angel

 

[mirian]

Dear John,

Applying 2.6 >> 23 to your question I would read this as a battle between two different forces in which neither can win. Your own spiritual views/beliefs clashing with the ones represented by shamanism. Two different powers trying to prevail over each other, with no benefit to any of them, quite the opposite the two sides suffering losses. In a nutshell, there is no gain to you in any aspect.

As for 21.3 >> 30 it shows you trying to push the issue harder and harder only to find difficulties, animosity and damage, either physical, spiritual or psychological.

It seems to me that your reading is a very clear message that this trip is a no-no.:bows:

 

[qafinaf]

This is very helpful. And honestly what you all are saying affirms my uneasiness about going. But then I was wondering if it would be a beneficial difficulty.

Mirian, your reading of the two dragons battling in the field as opposing spiritual views is right on I think. I have had that kind of inner conflict before in similar situations, leading to a lot of stress. And maybe no benefit.

And Anemos what you say about seeing what's underneath the conflict of the dragons is insightful... and I guess what's literally underneath them is the "field" or "earth", a calmer, more receptive frame of mind. Not making deciding into such a struggle. What drives the conflict? Maybe it's fear of trusting the earthy calm.

30 is a mystery to me too. I'm tempted to see it as inner awareness and clarity. That's why I was seeing the poison of 21.3 as something inside me that it would be good to encounter and release.

I thank you all.

John

 

[anemos]

Hi John,

Yes, 30 as clarity makes a lot of sense here. I understand what you say about the poison. Have you checked Brad's 21.3 ? maybe you can relate.

You said : "Maybe it's fear of trusting the earthy calm." This brought in mind a poem of a favorite poet of mine Cavafis ( he is Greek ) . I like particularly the very last part . I won't write it here and be a spoiler

I found a link in case you are interest . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajy55VtGbzY

 

[sooo]

If you're prepared to reckon with your fears and mortality, you come away cleansed of a lot of junk. The poison is the truth you've bitten down into. But the world won't look the same, which is a good thing, providing you've not lost the ability to reason within your own mind. That goes for shamanism, religion, oracles, any type of spiritualism.

 

[bradford]

If you're prepared to reckon with your fears and mortality, you come away cleansed of a lot of junk. The poison is the truth you've bitten down into. But the world won't look the same, which is a good thing, providing you've not lost the ability to reason within your own mind. That goes for shamanism, religion, oracles, any type of spiritualism.

I'll second this comment. "South American shamanism" increasingly means the imbibing of ayahuasca tea, and is quite distinct from the expensive new age smoke-and-feathers fluff. I will assume that's what you are concerned with. In the field of entheogen users we have a phrase "breaking open the head" that has a good deal in common with the idea of Biting Through. It's doing serious things to your world view and it can lead to serious changes in lifestyle. It is probably wise to go prepared to undergo such radical transformation, to be ready to occupy a place of learning.
The idea of biting into something gone bad is a good chuckle for anyone who had tasted this beverage. The nausea and vomiting usually mentioned is not a sure thing and it can have several causes besides the taste, such as being yanked out of your familiar world too abruptly. The worst is from trying to hide from something that you are ultimately going to need to turn and face. There is no place to hide in one of these sessions so you really need to go into it with all the sincerity you have and be in a place to receive guidance. Sometimes you can greet the nausea with a mantra like "just digest it - it's good medicine" and sometimes it's best to just throw up. This is one of the reasons that groups of users get along so well - nobody has any pride left to get in the way.
As to your two dragons, just be less invested in the outcome of the battle. If you get into this it will work itself out. Just don't get into it if you're not ready to open up and learn a lot.

 

[qafinaf]

Anemos, Thank you for the poem. I was telling a friend about it over coffee this morning. We were talking about how people get so absorbed when there's conflict in the news. And what in the world would we do without our enemies? That's when I told her about the poem. She told me how working with deadlines helps keep her moving, gives her a sense of purpose. And that some Sundays seem so empty because there's not a deadline to meet.

Walking home afterwards, I thought about 2.6 and about the calm earth underneath the conflicting dragons. How this conflict is like struggles to achieve and struggles in the world. If there were no barbarians coming, what would we do?

Bradford, I appreciate your insight as well as your openness to other readings of these responses. I am very tempted to confront these dangers for the sake of the possible benefit, but based on other readings, past experience and inner leaning, I get the feeling that in my case, to pursue this course could be too aggressive an approach. A reading from last night when I was asking about the benefit of this journey in light of my spiritual ideals gave me 24.2.6 > 41. I take this to indicate that it's better to nurture the young light than to plunge into depth and confusion.

Thanks to everyone for offering their insights. The feeling of support is very nice.

 

[sooo]

Not to A/B compare them, but ingesting raw, but rotten tasting, peyote buttons gives the same type of impression, and of course peyote is often used in tribal shamanistic practices. It's the most disgusting tasting stuff I can recall eating. But if the whole experience is prepared for, that's 'part of the trip.' You can help to ward off vomiting, but the unpleasantness (poison) is part of what leads to the next step.

This was told to a biblical o.t. prophet too. He would eat the scroll that was given to him, and it caused him to vomit. Only then could he know the message of the scroll.

You can create mini-shamanistic experiences in your life without delving into radical purging, just by reading accounts. The old Castaneda books capture the shamanistic spirit in an entertaining fashion. But again, if your approach is serious, they too can change your reality. And like the rabbit hole, it's easier to get in than to get out.

The way I see it, everyone on this site who uses the IC, practices a form of shamanism.

 

[anemos]

Anemos, Thank you for the poem. I was telling a friend about it over coffee this morning. We were talking about how people get so absorbed when there's conflict in the news. And what in the world would we do without our enemies? That's when I told her about the poem. She told me how working with deadlines helps keep her moving, gives her a sense of purpose. And that some Sundays seem so empty because there's not a deadline to meet.

Walking home afterwards, I thought about 2.6 and about the calm earth underneath the conflicting dragons. How this conflict is like struggles to achieve and struggles in the world. If there were no barbarians coming, what would we do?

Love what you said and your friend too . Yes, barbarians sometimes give a purpose and some others -when they apparently won't come – their absence its rather unsettling , like the empty Sundays or the calm earth.Sometimes, the noisy preparations are “ a sort of solution” and quietness is disquieting for it asks questions