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22.5 advises adornment or simplicity?

galatea11

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Greetings,

Many thanks to Hilary as always for such a useful, active forum with so many great contributors. I have spent much of today reading up on the elusive Hexagram 22 which has been popping up a lot lately. In the past few months I have grown very attracted to a man whom I see rather infrequently. I do have the chance to "bump into" him this weekend but it involves going to a place where I feel a bit uncomfortable so I asked: "What will be the effect of going to "X" place this weekend?

Response: 22.5>37
Wu: He adorns himself with ragged cloth in a hillside garden. He appears parsimonious, but will have good fortune in the end.
Interesting answer because I had planned on dressing up a bit (which is rare for me) if I did go. Not sure if this answer implies that I should purposely "beautify" myself or do the opposite and just be simple and modest in appearance. For what it is worth Hexagram 22 has come up in several questions regarding this same man. My apparel notwithstanding am I correct in assuming that Yi is encouraging me to go to "X" place this weekend? There is mention of "humiliation" and "distress" in a number of translations of 22.5 but the travail seems to result in an auspicious ending.
Liu: Humiliation, then good fortune.
Honestly, I've had a lot of humiliation and distress in the past 6 months - and I'd love to avoid more - but I also don't want to live like a coward. Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this 22.5 reading. 22 probably confuses me more than any other hexagram.


P.S. Just for frame of reference I also asked "What will be the effect of my not going to "X" place this weekend?" and received the daunting 13.1.2.5.6>32 in response.
 

moss elk

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hi,

22.5 is about the way you will feel when you go there: a place where the others may be more wealthy or accomplished, and you'll feel somewhat "less than" them: that's the 'embarrassing' part. It is promising to go, you'll just have to endure the feelings. (which they may or may not be aware of) You may have the thought, "I feel out of place." but you are good enough to go there.

If you keep getting 22's about him,
it is likely that you are enamored by appearances or his wealth or status,
and not seeing the true picture of him.
(which is the warning in 22's image)
 

Liselle

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The first thing I noticed about your 13.1.2.5.6 > 32 reading, what if you don't go at all, is that the "transition" is missing from it, lines 3 and 4.

That's an odd way to interpret a reading, of course, for me, anyway, and pays no attention to the text at all. But doesn't it seem to fit with the hexagrams? That is - how could you take a hexagram meaning "social mechanism" and ensure it stays in its established, accustomed orbit (32)? By removing a chance for transition, maybe?


Added: I'm not trying to say whether that's good or bad! Ignoring the text means there's no omen words to help. (Note: this is a very weird post for me.)
 

galatea11

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Thanks so much, Moss Elk. I will go this weekend - and most likely feel a bit self-conscious - and see what happens, if anything. Man in question owns a business which seems successful but to my awareness he is not the possessor of vast wealth. Some people in his group, so to speak, seem to hold him in high regard and I have the vague impression that this is mostly due to his generosity of spirit. He seems to have helped a lot of people. My main concern (although it's silly for me to even have "concerns" at this point) is that he is possibly a womanizer. I don't want to be on his "string of fish" and, funny, my daily reading for today was 23.5 even though I didn't ask anything specifically about him.

Really, I'm tired of my own idiocy - in the past 10 years I've attracted nothing but cheaters and liars - and I'd like to sharpen my senses and avoid more of that. However, if I get too cautious then I may shut the door on a good person.

One of my first readings about this new man in question was "How should I regard Mr. X?" I received 27.3>22:
Liu: One turns away from nourishment. Continuing in this way brings misfortune: no action for ten years, no benefit or advantage. Owing to misconduct there is a danger of encountering disaster, misfortune, or poor health.
At first 27.3 seemed a straightforward admonition to stay away from the guy but the more I read about the line the more confused I became:

Legge: She considers herself self-sufficient, needing no help.
That line described me for many years as I have no family (decades since most recent contact) and still remain single with no kids at 49. Sometimes I wonder if I've been too self-sufficient and driven away people who would have liked to have been a part of my life. I sorta want to give Mr. X a chance because he has shown interest in me and I don't want to misjudge him but the recurring 22s do seems to be warning that some type of illusion is present on my part..

If you have the time and inclination, Moss Elk, I'd love to hear any further impressions on these mysterious 22s:)
 

Liselle

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22.5, um...

The last phrase is "In the end, good fortune" (Hilary's translation), and I think usually we do interpret it as Moss Elk is saying, that you will be plenty good enough to go to this (if you want to, and if you were doubting that) - and I think we'd usually say it means whatever you wear will be fine.

(Trying to think about this independently of the reading, for a minute. Usually when going to social events, it's not good to be significantly over-dressed or under-dressed. What you want is to dress appropriately, according to whatever the hosts specify or what custom dictates. So - do you have any of that to go by? Do you know what "kind" of event it is, and do you have a sense of what's normal? Is there a dress suggestion? If you have any of that sort of information, then I think if it was me, that's what I'd mostly follow, and maybe use Yi to tweak around the edges.)

But maybe you have no idea, and then we're back to readings. I started to say I think 22.5 would usually be seen as whatever you decide to wear will be fine.

But unfortunately we have at least one example - not clothing related! - where the "in the end, good fortune" part is not obvious, and the feelings of shame are very real (at least as far as we know, to date). Read this sad blog post of Hilary's, if you haven't already.

What else you might do is ask Yi specifically about your clothes, or even a particular outfit.
 

galatea11

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Hi Liselle, I really appreciate your "very weird" post;) Especially since one of the very first things that jumped out at me in the 13>32 reading was the absence of lines 3 and 4 - the only lines (at least in the Sakis Totlis interpretation) which specifically mention enemies. Can't quite put my finger on it but those two missing lines somehow seem almost more significant than the lines I did receive..
 

galatea11

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Hi Liselle, I was writing at the same time you were posting. Thank you for your comments on 22.5 as well. Place is near the beach so people will likely be casually dressed. I was thinking of wearing a summer dress (which I never do) and putting on some makeup (which I rarely do.) The only reason I would go to this place would be to see Mr. X. After your comments I'm starting to see the two readings as containing a message together:

22.5 - go there this weekend and experience some slight humiliation which will lead to a good outcome (?)

13.1.2.5.6 - don't go there this weekend and you will miss the enemies (lines 3&4) but will eventually have a good result anyways (?)

P.S. I did see Hilary's blog post about the trees earlier today - so sad.
 

Liselle

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(I didn't explain what I meant by "transition," although maybe you already know. Lines 3 and 4 are the transitional lines between the lower trigram and the upper trigram, inner world and outer world. Which, again - doesn't that seem relevant to a reading about having new experiences and meeting new people?)
 

galatea11

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Actually, I didn't know exactly what you meant by "transition" but now I maybe see. The I Ching has so many nuances. Maybe the reading is hinting that I would be missing a possible transition point in my life by not going? What jumped out at me is that 13.3 and 13.4 both mention enemies while none of the other lines do.
 

Liselle

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Yes, we're cross-posting, oh the joys of the internet :D

About the summer dress and make-up...you will know you don't usually "adorn" yourself like that, but will anyone else? A tasteful light dress and a bit of makeup - you don't have to go overboard on any of it, which actually might fit with 22.5 quite well (the "not going overboard" part) - probably won't stand out in any way to anyone. You'll just look nice, in an unassuming way (which I'm guessing might be what you want? - correct me if I'm wrong).

Um...on the other hand. If there will be people there who know you well, who might make comments like, "My goodness, aren't you all dolled up!" when all you've done is wear a summer dress and a bit of makeup - if it was me, I probably would feel self-conscious and embarrassed, especially if they suspected and hinted around with me, teasingly, that it was because of Mr. X.

Maybe 22.5 means that even if that happens, it'll be okay and you should do it!

But alternatively...um...(I'm the last person on earth who should be handing out fashion advice :rofl:)... maybe a notch down from the dress, but a notch up from your usual clothes? Like...if you normally wear jeans, t-shirts, and sneakers, wear a pair of capri pants, a nicer blouse, and espadrilles instead? With a summery necklace? Or some such relatively minor tweak?

Of course it also depends on what you own or can find quickly. Shopping can be a nightmare if you're actually looking for something, especially in a hurry.

Please ask Yi about outfits! Yi will be vastly better at this than me!
 

Liselle

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What jumped out at me is that 13.3 and 13.4 both mention enemies while none of the other lines do.
I honestly hadn't looked at the text (for maybe the first time ever). But enemies (and the need to make sure you can't be attacked) are good things to be missing from a reading like this, I agree.
 

galatea11

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Hi Liselle,

Thank you so much for your additional commentary. I definitely don't want to go overboard this weekend. Generally this man sees me when I get off work in my glasses, flat shoes and shapeless clothing but recently I made an effort to put on something nicer. He seemed to notice and other people possibly did too, unless I'm being completely paranoid. What just occurred to me is that maybe he's involved with someone and likes to make her jealous? He's been rather open about paying attention to me and I'd thought that was a good sign but maybe not. Now I'm overthinking.. which I tend to do. I always go back to that original 27.3>22 reading I had about him because it still puzzles me. Would I be making a mistake to turn away from his potential "nourishment" or is he just plain bad for me?
 

Liselle

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Now I'm overthinking.. which I tend to do.
I do too, and it was a problem on another thread earlier today, but will I learn from that? Ha ha.

I always go back to that original 27.3>22 reading I had about him because it still puzzles me. Would I be making a mistake to turn away from his potential "nourishment" or is he just plain bad for me?
I don't know, either. What did you intend with your question? Were you looking for a description of him, or for Yi to suggest an attitude for you to take?

Edited: is there any way you could find out if he's currently seeing someone?
 

galatea11

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He's part of a large circle of friends/acquaintances and I'm not one of them so I don't really feel comfortable asking. In my query which resulted in 27.3>22 I'd been hoping to learn what attitude I should take toward him. 8.3 or 58.5 would have conveniently told me just to stay away from him but 27.3 is a weird one. Almost made me wonder if Yi was chastising me for even thinking of turning away from this guy. Or is that the delusion inherent in the resulting 22??
 

moss elk

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P.S. Just for frame of reference I also asked "What will be the effect of my not going to "X" place this weekend?" and received the daunting 13.1.2.5.6>32 in response.
Not attending will not break your fellowship.
The Fellowship (13) Endures (32)
So, it is your decision to go or not.
(forget about the lines you didn't get: meaningless and not applicable)



27.3 (22) ?
It is like hungering for some wax fruit in a bowl.
(it isn't delicious or nutritious, though it seems (22) so from afar)
 

galatea11

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Thank you, Moss Elk. I will ponder your words as I go to sleep now. Funny thing, I just typed you a more detailed response which somehow deleted itself. Must be tired - good night;)
 

Trojina

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I'm just checking you know where you are ?

I saw in the newsletter you joined CC, then I see you post your question in the free forums ?

There is no problem posting here at all but I have seen some members with seemingly no idea of what forum they paid to be in.

Hilary isn't very likely to respond to you here so I will [MENTION=252]hilary[/MENTION] just in case you got lost.

To me it seems strange to pay to join Change Circle where your readings are more private and Hilary may answer and then post in the free forums :confused: No reason you shouldn't post where you want but as I say I have seen others confused over this point.
 

galatea11

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Hi Trojina, you can add me to the members with "seemingly no idea". Lol.. just glad I wasn't the only one who had no clue. For some time I've wanted to join as a member but my money situation was so unpredictable each month that I was leery of adding even one more small financial commitment. Now I'm working so much (which enabled me to join as a member) that I haven't even explored the members' benefits other than to access WikiWing and Reading Circle. Mainly I joined just to support Hilary and show my appreciation for such a great site. But now I will look over the other benefits more closely.

Funny, prior to the last month or so I almost never saw Hexagram 22. It virtually never showed up in my readings. Now, as I mentioned previously in this thread, I'm receiving it a lot. Maybe 22 is telling me to look below the surface of things - even on this site. Moss Elk's earlier reference to "delicious" wax fruit was sublime. I fell asleep last night thinking about it. Free time has been minimal lately but I need to stop "glossing over" stuff and pay more attention to utility rather than just form. Thank you for the reminder.
 

Trojina

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Hi Trojina, you can add me to the members with "seemingly no idea". Lol.. just glad I wasn't the only one who had no clue. For some time I've wanted to join as a member but my money situation was so unpredictable each month that I was leery of adding even one more small financial commitment. Now I'm working so much (which enabled me to join as a member) that I haven't even explored the members' benefits other than to access WikiWing and Reading Circle. Mainly I joined just to support Hilary and show my appreciation for such a great site. But now I will look over the other benefits more closely.
Reading Circle is the members only area you can post readings and nothing is Googleable as it is here.

:confused: as you mentioned Reading Circle I'm guessing you know about that ? Or maybe you don't maybe you think this is reading circle ? No you have said you are one of the people who doesn't know if this forum is separate to CC.

You don't have to join Change Circle to access WikiWing you can just pay minimum of £1 a month or more if you just want to get that.

I'm really baffled. It's also a bit worrying as if people don't know the difference between forums they can carry things over from CC to this forum which reduces privacy.
 

hilary

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I'm just checking you know where you are ?

I saw in the newsletter you joined CC, then I see you post your question in the free forums ?

There is no problem posting here at all but I have seen some members with seemingly no idea of what forum they paid to be in.

Hilary isn't very likely to respond to you here so I will [MENTION=252]hilary[/MENTION] just in case you got lost.

To me it seems strange to pay to join Change Circle where your readings are more private and Hilary may answer and then post in the free forums :confused: No reason you shouldn't post where you want but as I say I have seen others confused over this point.
Thanks for the '@'. Yes, it seems I need to do something more to help with this...

Hi Trojina, you can add me to the members with "seemingly no idea". Lol.. just glad I wasn't the only one who had no clue. For some time I've wanted to join as a member but my money situation was so unpredictable each month that I was leery of adding even one more small financial commitment. Now I'm working so much (which enabled me to join as a member) that I haven't even explored the members' benefits other than to access WikiWing and Reading Circle. Mainly I joined just to support Hilary and show my appreciation for such a great site.
Thank you :)
But now I will look over the other benefits more closely.
The videos in this 'getting started' thread in Reading Circle should help:
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?24289-Start-here-Change-Circle-guidelines-and-getting-started-videos
But - hm - yes, they don't actually explicitly talk about the difference between Change Circle and public forums. I will add something!
 

galatea11

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Hi Hilary and Trojina, thank you for your responses. I was aware that there was a difference between Reading Circle and the public forums but I'm just not much concerned about my own privacy. That probably sounds strange - yet I sit here with my morning coffee in a studio surrounded by at least 12 other highrises that have a birds-eye view into my living quarters. I promise not to copy anything on from the private portions of this site into the public forums. Even if I'm casual about my own activities I am mindful of others' privacy.

Hopefully I don't come off as breezy or cavalier because I don't intend it. All the advisories pertaining to membership on this site are probably perfect. Truly I just wanted to support Hilary and this wonderful site so purchasing a membership seemed like an easy way to do that. Most future members will probably be much more diligent about researching membership benefits than I have been. And I will probably be grateful for the private forums at some point if I ever have an intensely personal issue. My crush on a random man (the original subject of this thread) doesn't seem that compromising to me. The people who know me best would probably laugh at my frivolity if they knew of it.

Anyways, I don't know if I'm expressing myself very well. I value this site and want to contribute something toward it after the hours and years I've spent perusing it. And, honestly, I've always received great, though-provoking advice here in the free forums so I haven't yet felt a need to go "private" with my queries;)
 

hilary

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...Truly I just wanted to support Hilary and this wonderful site so purchasing a membership seemed like an easy way to do that. ...
:blush:
Anyways, I don't know if I'm expressing myself very well. I value this site and want to contribute something toward it after the hours and years I've spent perusing it. And, honestly, I've always received great, though-provoking advice here in the free forums so I haven't yet felt a need to go "private" with my queries;)
One thing you could do if you like, as a member - '@' me, like Trojina just did, by typing '@hilary', if you'd like my thoughts on a reading. (Occasionally, posts made in the free forums disappear down the list before they get any replies.)
 

Sixth Relative

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Hi galatea
"What will be the effect of going to "X" place this weekend?

Response: 22.5>37
I would read it as saying: "you may feel ashamed for looking after this man but in the end you would improve your relation with him"

"What will be the effect of my not going to "X" place this weekend?" and received the daunting 13.1.2.5.6>32 in response.
I would read it as saying: "you would get stuck on the friendzone"
 

galatea11

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Thank you so much, Hilary!! I will definitely do that.

And I would love to hear your thoughts on this thread if you feel so inclined:)
 
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galatea11

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Hi Sixth Relative, just saw your responses and they seem spot on. I felt sorta self-conscious gong to a place to see him because that's all I was really doing. Other people noticed his reaction and came down on him but pretty much left me alone. I haven't sorted it all out yet but I'm pretty sure he knows that I went there to see him and I will let him make the next move if he elects to do so. Like I said, your commentary really summed up the situation. I've expressed my interest and I guess he will now handle it however he sees fit.
 

Liselle

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Thank you so much, Hilary!! I will definitely do that.

And I would love to hear your thoughts on this thread if you feel so inclined:)
Galatea, Hilary won't see that in this forum unless you "@" her, like this: [MENTION=252]hilary[/MENTION]

(As she said, if you find it helpful to post in Shared Readings because you get a lot of people's viewpoints, but you'd also like hers, it's perfectly fine if you do that. :))
 

Trojina

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This is a good idea

One thing you could do if you like, as a member - '@' me, like Trojina just did, by typing '@hilary', if you'd like my thoughts on a reading. (Occasionally, posts made in the free forums disappear down the list before they get any replies.)
So supposing you are really stuck on something or you just want to know what Hilary thinks, because you are in CC you can @ her and she will come over if she's there that day.

That seems a really good system to me and ensures you get your money's worth ;)
 

rosada

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So what did you end up wearing???
 

hilary

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About the original 27.3 - yes, that would give you pause!

Er... I can see two ways to take this line, and one of them is really quite offensive - I apologise for it in advance (really)...

1) your own idea - to turn away from this possibility (take the safer option of not trying anything) is like rejecting nourishment ('I don't need anyone, I'm perfectly fine on my own...')

or,

2) to be preoccupied with him is like rejecting nourishment. Which it could be... I mean, this is something people do: fixate on something/ someone unavailable, something that clearly isn't real and never could be (eg someone you've never spoken to, someone married...), as a way to avoid the ordinary, real possibilities. There isn't some more ordinary, less 'shiny' man you're turning your back on because of this crush, is there?

Nothing you've said so far sounds like option 2 at all, so I'm inclined to go with option 1. I just thought I should probably throw option 2 into the mix in case there's some more genuinely nourishing possibility near at hand.
 

Sixth Relative

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About the original 27.3 - yes, that would give you pause!

Er... I can see two ways to take this
Option 3: read the text of the line as describing him.

If I get 27zhi22 as the answer to how should I regard someone, I would say to myself: "wow, this person is quite a snob!" Snob = someone rejecting real nourishment due to superficiality (27zhi22)
 

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