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22.6 (36) and its Fan Yao 36.6 (22)

autumn

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This transition is intriguing, but I can't get a firm grasp on it.. 36.6.(22) and 22.6 (36)

At first I thought 36.6 was about burning off the darkness, conquering a tyrant, and being left with grace and light after the oppression. There is so much of the light (Power) it becomes dark (Implosion).. . For the opposite transition, pure white...the adornment radiates internally, but outwardly there is no beauty?

I'd love to hear experiences and interpretations. Not a personal answer for me, just something I'm drawn to exploring the meaning of.
 

rosada

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Interesting this hexagram should come up. Just Friday i was discussing the I Ching with my father who is a brilliant math proffessor. i was trying to interest him in the I Ching and he was asking all sorts of weird (to me) questions like, "Why 64 hexagrams? Would it work just as well with 63? " Finally I just consulted IC, asking "How does the I ching work?" I received 36.6 changing to 22. I read this to mean the I Ching works by quieting the mind, and when the mind becomes quiet the grace of God is revealed.
 

bradford

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Autumn-
It may help you to understand if you make a distinction between the Western idea of white as light and purity and the Chinese word Bai2 used here. Bai doesn't have these Western connotations.
It implies something more like simplicity or understatement, something that you haven't taken the fuss and trouble to adorn with color, something you haven't glamorized, but just let be in its authentic or original state, which is the opposite or flip side of the hexagram meaning and so its logical conclusion.
 
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bruce_g

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Brad, thanks for pointing that out. It makes the difference between black/white, good/evil thinking - or - full/empty, wax/wane, sun/moon, yang/yin thinking. That is why I used the word 'pure', but I realized after my last post, it may not have been clear.
 
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bruce_g

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From LiSe's 36.6: "One can only know about the light when one knows and accepts the dark too. Enter the dark and you will understand light. First low, then high. That's how things grow healthy and natural. This way the sun creates night and day."

It's interesting that 22.6 leads to 36.6, in that it is the elimination of superficial adornment which reveals the truth of darkness as well as light. With a mask of pretense, this pure vision of darkness can not be seen or experienced. Too much bias, suspicion and fear.
 
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lightofreason

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rosada said:
Interesting this hexagram should come up. Just Friday i was discussing the I Ching with my father who is a brilliant math proffessor. i was trying to interest him in the I Ching and he was asking all sorts of weird (to me) questions like, "Why 64 hexagrams? Would it work just as well with 63? " Finally I just consulted IC, asking "How does the I ching work?" I received 36.6 changing to 22. I read this to mean the I Ching works by quieting the mind, and when the mind becomes quiet the grace of God is revealed.
Show him this diagram:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/btree.gif

and, since he is into Mathematics, these pages:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/properties.html - where the metaphor that is the IC is shown to be isomorphic to number categories in the metaphor we call Mathematics and how both stem from the self-referencing of our brains.

And then show see:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/introXOR.html

and finally see the Emotional IC pages:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/EmotionalIC.html

no divination involved but you DO get 'results' that relate to circumstances - and consistantly. As a Mathematician he may 'get it' without the 'divination' aspect needed, and so you can both share the IC but in different ways.

Chris.
 

nicky_p

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Sometimes you've got to hit rock bottom to know where you're at.

And telling like it is is the first step to getting you out of that hole.
 

autumn

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I think it's more examining how 36.6 informs 22.6; and how the resulting hexagram is a logical response to the line (if it in fact is supposed to be a logical response.. I could be wrong to even assume that).

So, for example- 22. A "lesser light", illuminating with adornment and celebration. But what is illuminated? From Bradford Hatcher's commentary, 22 is like the illusion of the magician, appearing symmetrical and whole from the perspective of near sight. A light that does not extend to the highest hilltop, and does not inform of the perspective from that hilltop.

I always assumed that 22.3 was the opposite concept of 22.6. One is gaudy; drawing the attention soley to the moment and its brilliance; the other refined beauty, or taking into account above comments, naked beauty, and a perspective that begins to extend another's vision beyond the limited light of 22. So, the trajectory of this transition in 22.6 is that whole, simple form begins to supersede the perspective of 22.

Now, why the resulting hexagram from 22.6? Why does brightness turn inward?

36, on the other hand, is hidden brightness. From Bradford Hatcher's commentary, "Resistance is avoided (hidden): this becomes heat and then light" internally . The metaphor given in the commentary gives reference to hidden knowledge persisting in secret societies during the Dark Ages. His keywords are light, clarity, wisdom, intelligence joined with prevented, concealed, suppressed, discreet.

From the commentary by Bradford Hatcher on 33.6 "He might have illumined all four quarters from the great heights life allowed him. Yet he would neither see light nor be the light, so all that he gained was a great height to fall from."

The image that I have, then, of the sixth line of 36 is that the cauldron has exploded, and the intelligence and power of that germinating heat of superiority resisted has burst from its hiding place, but in the end there is no substance because the authentic inner nature of "hidden brightness" had been abandoned. High perspective does not live up to its potential and falls to earth. Fan Yao- high perspective goes beyond the limitations of the original perspective and supersedes it.

So, the juxtaposition of 22 and 36 (just the hexagrams, not the lines) is a light/dark juxtaposition if you look at it this way. 22 would be the lantern on a camping trip as you walk to the outhouse. Drawing attention and perspective to the limited circle of light falling on one's path. 36 would be scrolls of Greek and Latin and their corresponding illuminating knowledge hidden within the cloak of a monk as he conforms to outer society. Or, a great perspective that cannot be shared.

But why does one become the other? Why, once the great idea has climbed to the highest height and fallen to earth (Animal Farm, the Pigs?) does 22 result? Why, once naturalness of form has superseded the original perspective, does 36 result?

And why the connection with pain and hexagram 36? Does the 'great perspective' burn within and cause pain?
 
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lightofreason

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autumn said:
So, the juxtaposition of 22 and 36 (just the hexagrams, not the lines) is a light/dark juxtaposition if you look at it this way. 22 would be the lantern on a camping trip as you walk to the outhouse. Drawing attention and perspective to the limited circle of light falling on one's path. 36 would be scrolls of Greek and Latin and their corresponding illuminating knowledge hidden within the cloak of a monk as he conforms to outer society. Or, a great perspective that cannot be shared.

But why does one become the other? Why, once the great idea has climbed to the highest height and fallen to earth (Animal Farm, the Pigs?) does 22 result? Why, once naturalness of form has superseded the original perspective, does 36 result?

And why the connection with pain and hexagram 36? Does the 'great perspective' burn within and cause pain?
Juxtaposition of 22/36? welcome to my world:

When things are put into their natural order (binary sequence) 36 and 22 share the same space other than the top line. The top line in all hexagrams will seed the meaning of the whole hexagram into such issues of unconditional vs conditional.

the 36/22 pair reflect hiding the 'inside' as compared to the pair at the opposite end of the fire-octet, 49/13, that reveal/express the 'inside'.

36 covers the light totally so there is no visible access. In other words the covering is unconditional, there is no choice in that there are no 'likeminded' people in the present context (in the octet 36 is 'opposite' to 13) We can read the trigrams as "with/from guidance comes total trust in another/others" - this reflects some cause, the light, that takes on full commitment despite the 'dark times' - we have unconditional trust in that light.

22 covers the light through use of distraction by decorating, facading, the outside and so draw attention away from the inside (seeable in one's eyes if you look carefully - and so the need to 'distract' the eyes) In the octet 22 is 'opposite' to 49 where we peel back the surface, remove the mask, to see what is underneath or to reveal our selves 'underneath' - IOW 49/13 pair has this focus on issues of 'likemindedness' (and so that includes being revolutionary, removing the old mask etc)

This the sameness in 36/22 is in the first five lines, the difference the top line.

If we move into XOR space

(see http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/introXOR.html)

we can gain finer details on the form of 36 as compared to the form of 22. e.g.

skeletal form for 36 is described by analogy to:

101000 (36)
100001 (27)
--------
001001 - 52

The generic emphasis here is on being stopped/blocked combined with a focus on discernment (quality control) - the generic aspects well shown in 36. (mountain also relates to INNER self, the focus on discernment is where we learn it from our suffering - our 'lost loves' etc where they still exist in our heads -emotionally mountain equates to grief, a lost love, as its opposite is joy, a present love)

skeletal form for 22 is described by analogy to:

101001
100001
--------
001000 - modesty

The *generic* emphasis here is on levelling things out, fill in the lows, cut down the highs, covering up. This generic emphasis seeds the focus on filling in, covering up but to that is added the quality emphasis of mountain in the top position.

If we look at this from summing of yang line positions and their associated hexagrams, we have qualities of 24+15+23 = 22, whereas for 36 it is only 24+15

The source of nourishment of 36 is:

101000 (36)
011010 (48)
---------
110010 (60)

60 covers the concept of issues of limitations (also reflects the imposition of standards etc) - IOW 36 actually 'gets off' on this enforcing of having to cover the light.

The source of nourishment for 22 is:

101001
011010
---------
110011 (61)

61 maps to a hard exterior, soft interior. The 'yielding' inner hidden behind the 'mask' - 22 feeds off this.

etc etc etc (each hexagram has 64 harmonics derived from XORing)

Chris.
 

autumn

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All of that discussion and I think it just comes down to this in a social context: (interestingly, I drew these lines myself after being curious about them).

22.6- Plain speaking, down-to-earth person who does not flaunt their inherent value

36.6- The boastings of an incompetent
 
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mudpie

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If one were interpreting 22.6, I don't think 36.6 would be part of that interpretation. The 'fan yao" is not part of the answer, or is it?

22.6 to 36 makes lovely sense to me. Not needing any adornment externally because your brightness is within. hidden but protected. Aware of the utter simplicity of one's true beauty and worth, one might be nobly inclined to guard this brightness from the pluck of the world's fingertips.

Conversely:
36.6 "he might have illumined the four quarters but he would neither see...nor be the light." When darkness rules, it inevitably falls > 22: simplify. become authentic.

36.6 >22 Ghandi: "When I despair, I remember that all through history, the way of love and truth has always won. There have been murderers and tyrants, and for a time they can seem invincible. BUt in the end, they always fall." Grace and Beauty sustain.

36.6 Thoreau' s journey to the woods (in desperation?) >22 to simplify.. and to see the true nature of things.

36.6 Dark night of the soul.. you fall into the abyss of darkness ....22 and then find your true nature, untouched and pristine.
 

philippa

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The poetic description of 22.6/36.6 is all fine. But somehow they are still lacking substance. I think what I'm looking for is to have the images grounded in reality.

For example, I have recently experienced 22.6. Verbalizing my thoughts is not my strong point and I consulted the Yi on how I can express to a friend on an important matter and I got 22.6. It turned out that I didn't have to try very hard. No embellishments needed to make my point clear.

What about 36.6? What does it mean to "fall into the abyss of darkness"? E.g., managing clinical depression? Anyone?

Philippa
 
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autumn

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What I was trying to get at in the last post was I believe the lines are saying this: (at least in a social context, when asking about what is inside someone else's head, when asking to describe another person, etc., of course the interpretation would change if you were asking what to do, or how to deal with something).

22.6 Presenting oneself (22) with perfect, ordered simplicity (line 6) within a context of modesty (36 hides true merit). "The new leader is very talented and ambitious, but she's also so down to earth, she never makes you feel out of place."

36.6 Obscuring (36) ones' inherent inability to accomplish greatness (line 6) within the context of a facade (22). Slander. Napolean. Mis-directed energies that seek to impress others. "I am going to do something terrible to you because I am powerful," and then they don't follow up on it.

Or at least that was my connection here. I don't think this interpretation in any way contradicts what Listener was saying. She was using the lines to describe what those lines could be advising the querent, and I was using them to describe social nuances.
 

mudpie

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Philippa,
Just curious...you have never experienced a "dark night of the soul?" I think it is a phenomenon far removed from 'clinical depression' although it could cause what is known as clinical depression. (And what a shame, because a label is only a label, and doesnt even begin to touch upon what the very personal and soulful reasons for a person's 'dark night' may be)

I think it all may have sounded poetic, but to me it is business that is very grounded in reality. Maybe TOO grounded in reality. What we experience as reality is not necessarily only the mundane. For anyone experienceing a dark night of the soul, the "abyss of nothingness", or let's just call it "existential depression", it can perhaps be the most needful, practical thing to do ---to be able to define it, name it , and know that it is possible to retrieve one's soul from apparent darkness. That kind of "poetic" wisdom, to me, speaking for myself, is the more important use of the Yi..I dont deal much in the mundane :eek:

but come to think of it, I dont really see 36.6 as good metaphor for a true dark night of the soul because it so reeks of an abuse of power...and its just and fitting end.
That is a certain specific dark night. I have to think again of Janis Joplin..or the CEO at Enron. Those are examples of toppling into an abyss of darkness because darkness had reached its peak

(Hmmmm, what WOULD be a good metaphor for an existential dark night of the soul? 29.1 maybe.....or 30.4....or 55.3....or maybe even 14.6. Because the "dark night" is the doorway to a great possession, it is a a divine gift. IMO everybody is so blessed by this at least a few times in their life?)
ok, ok, I'll get off this thread now. I guess I am dancing to a different drummer
 

heylise

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I cannot think of a better, more realistic but also more poetic, image for a dark night of the soul, than 36.6.

Hexagrams 35 and 36 are about the sun. The day in 35, sunset and night in 36. After shining brightly, the sun needs rest and cleansing, and she does that by traveling through the abysmal waters under (of maybe deep in) the earth.

In 36.6 there is nothing about good or bad fortune, or shame or whatever. It is only stating a fact. "This is how things go", it is how they are supposed to be, or simply how they are in reality. The sun is high above all beings in the day, higher than anything else, but without making any fuss about it, at night she goes deeper down than anything else. Only to emerge again and shine her light over the earth in a new day.

Receiving this line during a dark night of the soul is as if Yi is telling you: this will pass, there will be a new day again. And even that this is a good night, a necessary cleansing in order to find that shining light back again.

Hexagram 22 is much more than only adorning. It includes the cause of beauty. The character has many more meanings: decoration, brilliant, bright, luminous, ornate, to honor, adorning. Pronounced ben1: ardent, brave, energetic, strenuous, to forge ahead, to blossom out, zest. Pronounced fen2: great. Pronounced fen4: defeated. Also in an inscription used for a kind of sacrifice.

Energy, zest... When you see a beautiful tree, horse, river, then it is every time its inherent energy or health or power which shines to the outside as beauty. A lifeless tree or horse, even when they are perfect in every other way - nobody will call them beautiful.

In 22.6 it says 'plain beauty', which refers very much to this 'true' beauty, the one which is caused from out the inside. The sun of 36.6 also owes its shining brightness in the day to its renewed energy in the night.

LiSe
 
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bruce_g

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Enjoying the renewal of this thread, all of it. Our ears perk with what resonates most with our inner being, and the last comments by Listener and LiSe sum up what sounds most right and feels most touching to my inner being, concerning 22.6-36.6, and in general as well.

There is this funny fuzziness about things when looked at from the looser art eye/heart than there is when thought about purely with an academic and analytical mind. It is less tangible, but the texture is softer and more pliable, when allowed to touch the heart. A general meaning is felt in a very personal way. And then it really means something to that person, though words may fall short of expressing it.

I have nothing to add to what Listener and LiSe have already said, though they inspire me to do so. Beautiful stuff.
 

philippa

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listener said:
Philippa,
Just curious...you have never experienced a "dark night of the soul?" I think it is a phenomenon far removed from 'clinical depression' although it could cause what is known as clinical depression. (And what a shame, because a label is only a label, and doesnt even begin to touch upon what the very personal and soulful reasons for a person's 'dark night' may be)
Oh I have. In fact, I have recently got this line regarding how I may be impacted by a matter close to my heart. I did not mean to be dim-witted about this line -- I'm certainly experiencing some fear dealing with the potential darkness referred in this line.

LiSe's commentary on this line is somewhat comforting to read, but somehow I cannot connect with this optimistic view. When you plunge into darkness, does that really entail it will eventually be over? The yao line itself doesn't offer such indication.

Philippa
 

nicky_p

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listener said:
The 'fan yao" is not part of the answer, or is it?
Sometimes for me it feels like part of the question if that makes sense? I know there is some debate over using them for a predictive tool but how about a deductive tool? Like the yi is saying 'so this is how you got into this' with the fan yao and 'this is how you get out of it' with the moving line.
 

heylise

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"When you plunge into darkness, does that really entail it will eventually be over?"
You are right, the line does not say it will be. I was too optimistic about that. It makes me think of "the end of the world is, when the sun does not rise in the morning". It must be a very distant reminiscense of a time long ago, when the sun did not rise for many years. It was caused by a huge volcanic eruption, which killed nearly all life on this planet. There was so much debris in the air, that the sun could not get through. Who told that? Must have been Lindsay.

There have been countless eruptions which caused disasters like this, smaller, but still dreadful. Dark nights for the planet, 36.6.

I don't agree though with the negative reading for 36.6. It can be, but it does not have to. It talks just about the fact of rising high and descending deep, without any judgment.

LiSe
 

martin

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Nigel Richmond says about hexagram 36:
'The inner and outer views of this tao are very different, it is developing a great movement in our inner being which will be nourishing, but the outer identified experience is a frustration of activity.
If we identify ourselves with what we can do, therefore, this will be a hard tao, but if we can go with this inner movement it is very beautiful and approaches a major transition.'

In line 6, as he understands it, we don't give up or go back to identification with what we can do outwardly (defining who we are based on that). We still need that experience and so we start a new cycle.

I think this is similar to the Buddhist idea that we will need another rebirth in the samsaric world if we are still attached to it and can't or don't want to give up our identification with our outer personality.
How 'dark' is this? Samsara can be a lot of fun too, of course. :)
 

martin

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Perhaps, if you look at it from this perpective, 22.6 as a counterpart of 36.6 also makes more sense.
'White as his only ornament' (Legge). Here all outward identification has gone. What remains is pure essence.
 

Colours

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I actually got this line at the end of a terribile day - old ghosts hunting me all day long, panic attacks, pills... anxiety... doubt... my inner child having a tantrum... that kind of day.
Then in bed that night I recalled a vision I had some time ago during a meditation. It It was a vision I was actually given by my guide and angels about my destiny and my Life Path. I felt such a relief. An utter sense of peacefulness. I asked Yi whether I could trust that insight or not and I received 36.6>22.
Makes total sense.
I had to go through such bad dreams in order to re-evaluate the preciousness of my hidden light, my personal truth.
But for the moment that is just an image - it's a 22. It hasn't turned into physical form yet.
 

Trojina

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This thread is 13 years old.
 

Liselle

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Interesting this hexagram should come up. Just Friday i was discussing the I Ching with my father who is a brilliant math proffessor. i was trying to interest him in the I Ching and he was asking all sorts of weird (to me) questions like, "Why 64 hexagrams? Would it work just as well with 63? " Finally I just consulted IC, asking "How does the I ching work?" I received 36.6 changing to 22. I read this to mean the I Ching works by quieting the mind, and when the mind becomes quiet the grace of God is revealed.
Interesting that another reading about how Yi works has resurfaced right around now.

We have - tell me if I'm missing any -

Rosada's "How does the I ching work?" from early in this thread, 36.6 to 22
Hilary's "Yi, how were you made?" blog article, 11uc
Iams Girl's reading asking Yi about its underlying principles, 14.1.6 to 32
 

Trojina

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At least if its obvious its 13 years old people won't start answering as if it were current. Martin died years ago.

2 threads linked to Liselle were triggered by you know what, they didn't just coincidentally appear. I don't know about you but I think I have read all i want to about underlying principles which isn't the same as asking where Yi came from.
 

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