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23.2.3.5 > 57 What will happen if I stay

LuckyGuy

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I'm in a pickle right now and don't know what to do for the best. So I've asked another question, What will happen if I stay with the agency? I received 23.2.3.5 > 57.

Is it saying the old is irretrievably dying and won't come back and the only way now is too let go of the old (agency) and start something new?
 
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rosada

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If you stay you will continue to wonder if you should leave.

I don’t think this reading is saying you ought to leave - that wasn’t what you asked - only that you will continue to question whether you should.
 

Liselle

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Oh dear. The other day you seemed comfortable with leaving, both in real life and because you thought Yi was supporting the idea.

I recognize this anxiety. I'm not sure there's a good solution. We consult Yi in order to help with that, but then if we don't feel we can trust what Yi's saying, or maybe moreso our interpretation of it...


About this reading:

23, Stripping Away, changing to 57, Penetrating

23 means "strip away," which is relevant by itself since you're asking about leaving. It also describes a very painful process, like flaying with a knife. Yes! I think this is good and painful for you! Hexagram fulfilled! :)hug:)

57, Subtle Penetration - in its less-helpful side, it can mean exactly what's happening, endless probing without accomplishing much.

The lines are distinct messages, I think. (Quoting Hilary's translation.)

23.2
'Stripping away the bed by way of its frame.
To disregard constancy: pitfall.'

Quitting a job without another job firmly in place is indeed "stripping away the bed frame," the thing you lie on that supports you.

Given what I know about this, which isn't everything since I don't think I've read all your threads, I think it might also be saying that this is what you're doing, to yourself. You seem to have a pretty good bed frame in place - you're as sure as you can be that Company X will hire you; you have enough money to get through the next 6 months; you have the 49.4 reading (the one I know the most about) saying you can be confident and that "regrets vanish"...and now you're stripping all that away from yourself again, mentally.

I think Yi's saying you need "constancy" to the bed frame you know you have (see above ^^) and if you disregard it, you're undermining yourself: pitfall.

23.3
'Stripping away.
No mistake.'

This seems like instructions, not a direct answer to your question. The stripping away that's alive here is you leaving your agency: 'no mistake', says Yi. I do think Yi's trying to be as direct as possible. Leave. (I can't not put a caveat here that this is my interpretation of your reading, and of course it could be all wrong. But I do think Yi's pushing you out the door ;).)

(I got this line when I was in a lot of doubt about - pardon the comparative triviality - cutting my hair quite short. I went ahead and did it, and I'm glad I did. There have been problems, but they're irksome in a better way than the problems I was having with longer hair. It was the right decision.)

23.5
'String of fish
Through the favour of the palace people.
Nothing that does not bear fruit.'

Again I think this is an indirect answer. I'm guessing Yi has firmly moved on from your question, possibly because you're not going to stay. I think this is reminiscent of the 63 in the other reading: this is already underway, whether you truly know it or accept it yet, no matter how much you fight or deny.

You're getting encouragement. "String of fish" - fish are both food to eat and economic resources, you'll be able to string those together. Again like the other reading, maybe barely, but that's not failure. "Through the favour of the palace people" - could that be Mr. X at Company X? Maybe some other palace people I don't know about? "Nothing that does not bear fruit" - doesn't that sound like pure encouragement?


That being said - I've been anxious like this over much smaller issues than quitting a job. I'm not sure there's anything Yi can say that will eliminate your worries, because it's inherently worrisome. It'll only stop being nerve-wracking when it's done, and Yi can't make it be done.


(Last-minute thought - if need be, are there other jobs you could get during the waiting period, so you'll have some income? I think you said your job is driving - are there other driving jobs you could do? This "Uber" whatchamacallit or some such? Other temporary jobs could easily be part of the string of fish, I think.)
 

Trojina

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I'm in a pickle right now and don't know what to do for the best. So I've asked another question, What will happen if I stay with the agency? I received 23.2.3.5 > 57.

Is it saying the old is irretrievably dying and won't come back and the only way now is too let go of the old (agency) and start something new?
I think at this point more casts aren't helping you.

Your problem is you want certainty from Yi and you won't get that, the decision is still yours.

I hope you can stop seeing this as a 'pickle' for a while, relax and know you'll get by whatever happens. I feel a bit bad because in an early 24.6 cast you had I was urging not to relax and now it seems you can't stop asking Yi more or less the same questions which will make you more lost.


Is this company offering you actual work ? If so then why not leave the agency.


I've worked for agencies and you don't even really need to tell them where you are working you can just stay on their files and they'll call you when work is available so I don't understand why you give this agency such a lot of power ?


In CC we are discussing this problem of wanting Yi to decide for us and this thread has come up.
 

LuckyGuy

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Thanks, rosada and Liselle and Trojina. I'm truly flattered that you kept track of my predicament (including my other posts) and I think it's only because it's such a huge decision that I have sought the clearest of answers – and in making so many casts, tried to do that. Perhaps it's my lack of experience in interpreting what the IChing says that's behind that.
I'm so grateful to all of you for helping me get to grips with where I am and where I am headed. I see rosada that you have a different take to Liselle but given my other (numerous lol castings), and what I know and the clarity Liselle gave – putting it into everyday language – and everything else, I think that’s the closest overall to how it relates to me. And Trojina, you have related it to actual experience (as it were), which has been most helpful. Not just here but in giving advice in my other posts. To you all thanks again.
You’ll be pleased to hear I’m giving castings a rest! IChing has already told me off about doing so many! I hope my next utterings will be where I tell you about what I did and what happened. I promise to keep you updated here. But not for about 3 weeks!
 

LuckyGuy

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Today I asked the IChing should I make an offer on a new property I liked and got hexagram 31!
 

LuckyGuy

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And I have now found a place to buy, had an offer accepted and my mortgage for it approved!
 

Liselle

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Thank you so much for all the updates (most of which I managed to miss, it seems). I'm glad to hear things are going well.
 

LuckyGuy

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And so, with all going well comes the sudden shock! Just weeks away from completion my buyer has pulled out and the people I am buying from decided to put their place back on the market. What a downer. So I asked the IChing to comment on my move to town X and received 27.3 > 22, and I've no idea what it means...:cry:

Would anyone care to comment?
 

Liselle

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😦 Um. Replying because I've been involved in this thread, not because I have anything much to say. (Sorry for the delay responding, by the way.)

I don't understand the reading either. At first glance it seems to be blaming you for this utter disaster??

The only fraction of an idea I have is that you asked Yi for a comment, rather than advice, and I wonder if that could be the problem? You don't so much need a comment, you need guidance on what to do now to recover and proceed.

I'll quote what Hilary has to say about 27.3, in case you'll recognize something.

From her book:
'Rejecting nourishment.
Constancy, pitfall.
For ten years, don’t act.
No direction bears fruit.'


This means rejecting nourishment itself – pushing away what you need to live. This could be motivated by a dogmatic adherence to principle; perhaps you’re inclined to identify yourself with the principle, as a way to be unique. In any case, this leaves you starving and without resource; it is not ever a good idea, not for any cause.

In fact, it might help to be without a cause for a while, and have ‘no direction’. If there is no lofty aim in mind, perhaps it might become possible to sense what is needed and what opportunities are open here and now.
From WikiWing (I don't know if you're a member - it's well worth joining, for a truly tiny monthly fee):
'Rejecting nourishment.
Ten years go round, no use.
No direction brings harvest.'


Commentary on the line: ‘rebelling greatly against dao.’ This one isn’t looking for a
new source of nourishment, but rejecting it outright. Brad Hatcher compares this line
to breatharianism.

Examples: the self-effacing mother who insists her children mustn’t take her needs
into consideration. The astrologer who refuses to advertise because of the commercial
taint, and then wonders what to live on without clients.

27 zhi Hexagram 22, Beauty and making beautiful. Perhaps the prime concern here is
preserving an image, and this distracts from the vital question of what will keep it
alive.
 

Liselle

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I hope your job is going well, at least? Are you working for company X now, having left the agency? (I'm trying to refresh my memory.)
 

LuckyGuy

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Hi Liselle, I'm still seeing out my 6 month break period so not started new job yet. Have left the agency yes, and been in touch with company X. But financially all ok. It's just a matter of time before the new job starts. Maybe you can suggest a question I can ask the IChing about my bad luck/guidance on what to do now to recover and proceed? I suppose what I really want to know is whether I'll be able to salvage the situation and find a new buyer quickly and be able to complete my move soon.
 
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Liselle

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Oh good. Glad you're okay, and that everything else is still on track. :)

Can I suggest a question...I don't know, just something that asks for advice, probably. Something simple, like "How best to proceed now?" or "Advice for selling?" / "Advice for buying?" or "What is the best next step for [selling / buying]?"

Maybe don't ask too specifically about both in the same question (even though they both happened at once). You might have trouble afterwards figuring out if the answer is about selling your house, buying a house, or both. A very general, umbrella question might be fine, but the two things are separate in a lot of ways.

I don't think I'd ask, "Why did I have this bad luck?" or "Why did this all fall apart?" or anything like that, as curious as you might be, because you'd still be left wondering what to do. An answer to why someone did something isn't always decipherable, since you aren't familiar enough with their side of things to recognize anything in the answer. It's a perfectly natural thing to wonder; just sometimes it doesn't make the best question for the I Ching.

Also, dwelling too much on why did this happen actually strikes me as a bit 27.3-ish, now that we're talking about it. "Constancy, pitfall." It also might fit with you asking for a comment, rather than what to do.

(If that's what the 27.3 was about, that seems to me like a relief. Much better than if it meant things are a disaster in the external world.)

If you do ask why, keep it in a spirit of curiosity, and don't worry if you don't understand the answer or if it sounds "bad." Keep in mind what the answer won't be: it won't be advice, and it won't be a prognosis.
 

LuckyGuy

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Thanks Liselle. Taking your advice I asked the I Ching 'What's the best way to proceed now' and I got 54.2 changing to 51.
 

Liselle

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...hm. The best I can do with that in the first 10 seconds is Yi's advising you not to panic. Which is useful advice if you're tempted to panic!

Hexagram 54, the Marrying Maiden, is about someone who's dumped into a situation where she's powerless. (Literally, it's about a group of girls, "second wives" who, in ancient China, would accompany a nobleman's "first wife" to her new home with her husband. These girls played a supporting role, and had no status or influence, and had to adapt and make their way as best they could.)

The relating hexagram, 51, Shock, is simpler to understand: a shock. The advice in it is not to "lose the sacred ladle and libation" - keep what's most important to you safe. You don't have to lose it.

So the basic situation is that you've had a shock, and now you feel rather powerless. The moving line is advice within that.

'With one eye, can see.
A hermit’s constancy bears fruit.'


You can see, but only with one eye, so there might be things you're not seeing or that you can't know. You already know part of that - people pulled out of transactions, and you'll probably never know why. But Yi's giving you this line at this point, when you're asking not for a desctiption of the situation, but for advice on how to proceed - so maybe there are other things going on that you can't see.

A hermit is generally someone who hides away and keeps to himself. Which seems like odd advice when there are things that presumably need doing, and I can't be sure whether it means literally do nothing at all. But I don't think it could mean to scramble around in a mad panicked rush to fix everything. Could you afford to keep relatively quiet for a short time, and watch the situation from the shadows?

"Shadows" comes from Hilary's alternative translation in WikiWing (there's often at least a few different ways to translate anything in Chinese to English). She has a slightly different and broader take on it:

'With one eye, can see.
Harvest in the constancy of shadow people.
'

With one eye you can see – but not everything, or not in three dimensions. There will
also be things you don’t see.

‘Shadow people’ are hermits; their constancy is the kind of truth to self that doesn’t
care whether anyone is watching. And their divination (the other translation of zhen)
is clear-sighted, unbiased. You may not be able to see everything that’s going on with
other people, but if you have this kind of understanding and constancy, it might not
matter.

54 zhi Hexagram 51, the Marrying Maiden’s Shock. Often a ‘marriage’ that isn’t what
you’d hoped for, so that you feel disappointed or abandoned. Hermit’s constancy,
stillness at the heart of the storm, looking to Hexagram 52.
 

LuckyGuy

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Thanks Liselle. I think that reading from what you say seems more a reflection of what's happened and how I am, and the situation is now. It makes sense to me. But no inkling of how to proceed really. Thanks for the in depth insight and following my journey. I generally ask specific questions of the IChing, as that's the way it usually works best for me. And so with this in mind, I followed up my last question with something more pertinent, as it's fairly important I move forward/find a solution quickly on this for several reasons which I won't get into here. So I asked the IChing :-

'What should I do to get my property sold quickly'?

The answer was 34 unchanging.
 

Liselle

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Huh. 34 is not at all hermit-like.

Maybe what 34 and 54.2 have in common is not rushing headlong into frantic activity? Hermits and marrying maidens don't do that because it would be unlike them and/or inappropriate to their role.

The ram, in various lines of 34, does do that, but it ends badly for him. You got the unchanging hexagram, not any lines. Still, Hilary seems to incorporate this aspect into her Judgement commentary: "standing in your strength, but without mistaking it for omnipotence."

I suppose in this case it might mean you should energetically do all the usual things people do to sell houses, maybe all the things you did before, but realize you can't force it?

I wonder if it could also mean don't keep lowering the price? 34 stands firm, and is confident in his own strength. If 34 has set a fair price, I can't see him lowering it dramatically at the first sign of trouble (especially if the price wasn't why the original buyers pulled out).

Not sure exactly how to apply this - I know almost nothing about house-selling.
 

LuckyGuy

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Thanks Liselle. Looking at the positives of this. I'm in a good position when a new buyer comes in because I now have all the paperwork in place which would help for quick completion - no hanging around. I know the price I accepted originally is strong and good for me. In fact my neighbour has just sold for 2k more. Even better, a place exactly the same came to market in the new town for a few grand less. So my buyer pulling out could be a blessing in disguise if I play my cards right. It's a pain that this happened at a time when the market is dead but with an election round the corner, maybe things will spring to life soon after. And there's also the fact that if a buyer comes in fast and I decide to go with the original property in the new town that could happen speedily too. As you say, there's not much I can do at the moment except hope that everything drops into place at the right time soon. I've kept my property price exactly the same and will keenly follow the election result. Thankfully I'm still in good shape all round - so fingers crossed. I'll keep updating here.
 

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