23.2.4.5 - A reason for extreme depression

[lucia]

64.3.4.5>57

In case this helps.......[from wikiwing)

The ‘Demon Country’ – a realm on the borders that regularly rebels and disrupts the kingdom’s prosperity. Or in inner terms, the borders of the psyche, inhabited by personal demons, that regularly makes its presence felt, causes disquiet, disrupts the harmony of life. Now is the time to tackle them.

As Ginnie said you have to do the work but more importantly I think is you have to make a commitment to do it - in other words keep it up - don't make excuses or find reasons not to.... but don't force it either.

but then it looks promising you will get results - not as a big bang but as a shift that penetrates to the core and is therefore ultimately more solid.

3 years just means it takes time

please please (and not just you) could you write out the whole thing with the resulting hex as well- it is a pain to have to look it up - thanks.

Lucia

 

[ichinglover]

what work? to do what specifically? work like making money, also 57 talks about seeing a great man

 

[ginnie]

But how did you deduct it? Is it from the reading? 64???

Yes. Your reading says even though you won't get anywhere today, you will soon get into motion. Since you want to be well, if you start a daily practice, you will get well.

That word practice is very important. It does us no good to understand things on the theoretical level if we don't practice them in our own lives on a daily basis. Information is not enough. We have to do the thing, whatever it is, every day.

The land of devils just means your tendency to stay in a negative frame of mind, Ichinglover. To turn this around will take practice.

 

[lucia]

what work? to do what specifically? work like making money, also 57 talks about seeing a great man

the work on yourself - make a commitment to get disciplinig those demons as in the quote I gave you!

maybe you are the great man? or maybe you could find help - but it is your efforts and constancy that will get you there not someone else telling you "answers".

Lucia

 

[ginnie]

H57 often means "Healing"

what work? to do what specifically? work like making money, also 57 talks about seeing a great man

The work of healing yourself. H57 as the relating hexagram often means "healing."

Now is the time and today (or tomorrow at the latest) is the day to decide what your practice will be.

Choose one method. You must choose one.

Set the time aside for a daily practice. Make it a specific time, like first thing in the morning. The mind will then know when the "feeling good time" or "getting better time" is and will start to look forward to it.

As Lucia said above, after that, all you have to do is keep it up.

 

[ichinglover]

Ginnie,
when you say a daily practice - what kinda of practice? meditation? sports? studies?

the question was "will anything good happen to me?" and it tells me to do a daily practice? and of what?

I give up...How you guys can decipher this is beoynd me...

 

[ginnie]

a daily practice? and of what?

I give up...How you guys can decipher this is beoynd me...

If you broke your leg, you'd have to find someone to put a splint on it. The I Ching would be useless in such a case.

If you had a disorder of the eye, you would choose a remedy good specifically for the eye, wouldn't you, like eye wash, eye drops, or exercises designed for the eye.

A depression is just like that. The I Ching cannot set a bone nor cure a disorder of the eye; neither can it cure a depression. It's really as simple as that, in plain language that needs no decoding.

I hope that soon you "get it" that in order to be healed of your depression, you personally will need to choose a method by which to recover from it.

If still unclear, you might visit the Self Help section of any good bookstore and search until you find what you're looking for . . . Depression is like the common cold, only in the mind. It seems quite severe at the time, and everybody's had it at one time or another . . .


Good luck to you, Ichinglover. I'm unsubscribing now from this thread . . .

 

[Leracy]

Ichinglover, when I was in dire straits with my health over the last two years, I PROMISED myself that I would get well. For the last two years I have done EFT daily. Sometimes it didn't seem I was getting anywhere at all, but I carried on anyway. If you follow the link I sent you, you will get to Gary Craig's site. There's loads of stuff for free there and his three times weekly emailer is packed with people's stories and how professionals work with their clients using EFT. Once you get going it's a 'seek and you will find' thing. One thing that happened to me was that a friend of mine, out of the blue said I should see a particular doctor. I did and discovered that I had a condition that my own doctor had failed to diagnose. This doctor uses natural therapies and now I feel very well indeed, so much so that I've been able to get an interview for a job (see other thread) and if that one doesn't turn up, something else will. I do about 10 minutes of EFT every day. You could also check out Carol Look's website - she has some brilliant DVDs on healing illnesses.

I never feel confident enough to interpret other people's I Ching readings, but I have every confidence in recommending this for you because it has worked for me. Not on its own, but if I hadn't got going on the EFT, then I'm quite sure that the other things wouldn't have fallen into place.

Maybe Gary Craig is your 'great man'??

 

[ichinglover]

Dear Ann,
thanks a lot...I indeed looked at the website, and I'm debating with myself now if it feels right to me...I do meditate, not as regularly as i should perhaps...But the technique has to feel comfortable, like a shoe ) I'm really grateful to you for this link and your recommendations! And I hope we both feel better sooner rather than later!

And Ginnie,
I'm afraid you misunderstood me...I was merely surprised how you guys can translate this metaphoric language of I ching into plain English...I can't do it, hence me giving up...

Also Jesed proposed a series of questions I can ask,

Thanks Jesed!

Here is the most complex one:

"What are the deep reasons for my depression?"

Suprisingly, I got 14, unchanging...

What is it? Pride??Money?? Lack of money?...
How else can 14 be interpreted in this case?

 

[tabitha]

Fighting depression -

Hi -

I'm not very sure about the i ching - my version has been very helpful to me: kwan yin.

Otherwise, just wanted to let you know - I've totally been there. Sometimes it seems like a new, better place comes, and other times, as spiritual as I am, there was a misdiagnosis - And! therapists can be terrible - trust your instincts. Could you rephrase your question, and work your way out?

Good luck .

T

 

[tabitha]

Also -

A noon day demon - great book on depression - was v. helpful to me - maybe it will help you.

t

 

[ichinglover]

Tabitha, thanks!

I'll check it out...

 

[jesed]

Also Jesed proposed a series of questions I can ask,

Hi my friend

The questions and their order has a reason. Therefore, is hard to make any comment for me without the full set of answers, in their order.

Best wishes

 

[ichinglover]

oops, I didn't realize that the order is crucial..

I'll need then to do it again in exact order...
Thanks for your clarification, Jesed!

Love Mexico, BTW
Especially colonial towns!

 

[ginnie]

The Willingness to Apply Oneself to a Practice

Hopefully you'll soon "get it" that in order to be healed of your depression, you personally will need to choose a method by which to recover from it.

You had asked: "What are the deep reasons for my depression"? and you got H14 unchanging. That means to me that you have become what is known as an expert sufferer. You are sovereign in the field of being a person having a depression, which is, unfortunately, a non-productive career.

Please don't come back and say you don't know where I got this from your lines. I got it from my life experience + having studied the I Ching on a daily basis for approximately 13 or 14 years.

On a personal note, I am thinking of using the EFT method, offered to you by Ann and referenced above, to get well from something myself. EFT is very quick and easy to learn.

Someone in a sick role can definitely achieve a position of sovereignty. Why should a person give all that up -- and start again as a rank beginner? Not so comfortable, and not so easy, indeed.

 

[em ching]

Hi,

I have been going through depression lately - actually I think I've had it for years - and I also I think it mainly stems from low self esteem. A combination of unpleasant events (perhaps brought about by my insecurities - or at least they prevented me from dealing well or protecting myself from negative events) colliding with my habit of beating myself up and blaming myself. I really have felt recently like there was nothing I could do - calling myself the worst names - getting upset and unable to calm myself down - and couldn't really stand being around others because of my self doubt and sense of shame... but I am coming out.. again.

I am feeling better - but I am very aware now that I am prone to (dark) pot-holes, darker and harder to climb out of than most other people. But what has helped recently is taking a trip to my GP after a particularly bad few days, and I am seriously considering anti-depressants. I feel I have a right to think better thoughts and if that needs boosting by drugs then ok! It might just set me on a better pattern. I know you said you'd been on them before but maybe you need a different combination this time? Citalopram has worked amazingly well for my cousin. Since taking it she has done more in a year, than she had in the 20 years she now thinks she was depressed for!

I read in a book called 'The Mood Cure' which gives advice on the food you can eat for depression and also (reassuringly) says that 80% of the modern population are serotonin deficient - which is why there is such a prevalence of anxiety, stress and depression - not to mention that we are all over worked and aspiring to unattainable ideals perpetuated by the media maybe! (IMO) Anyway the book also says we all have the capactiy to experience a range of emotions - from happiness and confidence to sadness and insecurity - but people who have had their supply of serotonin kicked out of them by periods of prolonged stress (as I and I suspect you have) are no longer able to regain that feeling of contentment and balance, and happiness and interest in the world again, including the ability to work and concentrate, for which serotonin is also a vital ingredient.

I have found 5HTP to work, as well as talking to people (not parents though), and the lovely and insightful words from everyone here on clarity. But these only kept me afloat before plummeting into the depths again.. But, I know hormones play a part in that too. But I have found that I am fine until challenged (usually socially), and then I freak out and feel good for nothing again... So I am considering going on anti-depressants, because I know how prone I am to beating myself up black and blue, and as you said then feeling hopeless and unable to work or take an interest in things... Giving too much air-time to the negative voice has become a bad but ingrained habit.

So, I think you should consider going to the doctors as a step away from your current feelings, even though you have been on anti-d's before, as maybe a different combo could be key? As it is stopping you from doing the things you would be able to do, with confidence and so clarity and sensibility, which would come from a better frame of mind. I think sometimes when we've got used to living with depression, we think that is who we are, but I have come to realise that you can't silence the negative voice (which should sometimes be tackled to the ground when it culminates in depression and intoversion) without help. And it seems brain chemistry plays a big part. I think medication could just kick start the positive feelings - at least lend them more balance - so that you will then have the confidence to take action over your life. Positive thoughts give confidence, and sometimes they need to be stimulated. Also, if there is a lack of social support around you, could you consider joining with like-minded people in an evening class or something? I don't want to sound predictable there though..

Anyway I hope some of this helps. I know you have had much more experience in this than me but I'm sure you will feel better soon.
You will turn this page! And no - You Are Not Alone!



:bows:

 

[ichinglover]

Em ching,
I can certainly relate to your post, it's like you are describing my experience as well...
I took citalopram at some point, but I don't want to be dependant on drugs, plus I don't tolerate them well, hence I'm looking for different approaches and doing some soul searching as well...But I certainly know about this option Also it's funny how you don't find it helpful to talk to the parents...

I think this is what actually makes me feel worse - my immediate family is not helpful at all, quite the contrary actually...I think the worse I feel I worse they treat me...Now they just decided to abandon me...This is the most hurtful of it all. And then they are surprised how come I don't want to visit them or talk to them

Ginnie, who mercifully came back, suggested I have an addiction to suffering...In certain sense there might be the case, the depressed mind likes the stasis the same way the jolly one does I think...
Also, dear Ginnie, I certainly do appreciate your interpretations and I'm quite grateful for your time
spent, I'm not sure about the cause of certain aggressiveness I sense in your posts in this thread...
I personally don't see any good reason for that...

Though another suggestion about 14 was the pent-up energy that is not essentially channeled in a right way...I can see that

I have to say though I didn't expect such a huge reaction to my modest post....

Thank you again to everyone for suggestions, ideas and the desire to help

 

[jesed]

Hi ichinglover

I just can say, from my own experience, that saying "put more effort" is not enough when you are under depression (again, depression is not merly sadness). Many times, the most simple act implies a HUGE effort. Of course, those who doesn't know, or hasn't experience it, simply CAN'T see it that way.

Hold on. Have faith. Of course, there are actions to make; decisions to take. In the end, it is your life and your health. I just wanna say that I know that is not easy. But you can!!! keep going. Take care. There are lot of people here in Clarity that have you in mind and wishes you health and happiness.

Best wishes

 

[ginnie]

Also, dear Ginnie, I certainly do appreciate your interpretations and I'm quite grateful for your time
spent, I'm not sure about the cause of certain aggressiveness I sense in your posts in this thread...
I personally don't see any good reason for that...

It came from my frustration at trying in words to convey something that cannot be put so easily into words at all. How hard it is to influence anyone with just a few words, that take so long to write . . .

Younger people these days have grown up with so many extraneous chemical substances and pollutants in the air, water, the food . . . When I was a young woman, up until about thirty years of age or even later, I was hardly ever ill from any cause. We kids didn't catch colds. Never heard of a kid with an earache or asthma. Only one kid in the neighborhood was overweight and everybody else was just average in weight.

We weren't given ritalin or any other medications as children. Parents hardly ever had to call the doctor, except for the chickenpox and the measles, the usual childhood diseases at that time.

Then came the invention of plastic, the basic ingredient of which is polyvinyl chloride, which was actually known to have toxic health effects even before the mass production of products made from plastic. And hundreds of thousands (?) of other industrial substances that ended up found even inside the inner organs of animals living at the South Pole.

So, is it a bad thing to take a medication, when the body/brain cannot remain in balance on its own? I don't think it's such a bad thing, if one's body/brain simply cannot hold a steady state, no matter what you do. I know all medications have side effects, and some of these side effects are very serious. I don't think I want to comment any further than that, because I'm not a physician.

I guess my point of view is that we're all just doing the best we know how, given the extreme times we're living in.

With regard to mental states, when we get into a bad mood, the next thing we know is that we've offended some people, most often family members, who are, of course, closest to us. And it is the family that has been almost destroyed by external pressures pushing upon it from outside.

How do you get that equal but opposite force going, something positive going for you, so that what is nasty and outer cannot influence you anymore -- so that you're not bouncing around from transient, external influences that you can never change anyway?

Best to regard anything outer as something that's never going to change, I think.

Only we ourselves are malleable, some kind of "stuff" that we ourselves can change.

I am so sorry to have taken an exasperated tone with you. I got into this thing where I was trying too hard. One does feel like one is tussling with something palpable, like a sabotaging entity, sometimes, when trying to influence a sick person to take steps towards getting well. . . . It's true . . . Good thing I'm not a doctor. I wouldn't last two weeks.

 

[ichinglover]

Lol

no worries Ginnie! i actually thought that in a sense it's too much caring that made you be
a bit pushy with me, my family I find for instance is like that as well. You post
just proves my intuition was right in this case..

Thanks for being so caring!

And I do know doctors who are quite outspoken as well. My Gp yells at me constantly
And he's been in medicine for a long time

It could be that I suddenly became acutely aware of the tone that people use around me,
both online and offline, for some unknown reason