25.6 and more :)

[redoleander]

what will my winter be like:
25.6 > 17

I really struggle with this line and I don’t think I’ve ever gotten it right in terms of taking its ‘advice’. I may totally misunderstand it but it seems to say not doing and doing are both a bad idea Well then.

followed up with
What is 25.6 referring to
6.5 > 64

I thought this could be my divorce? I don’t know really what else I’m ‘arguing’ for at the moment although the line could also be responding to me misunderstanding the first answer. 25.6 just seemed so broad and feels almost like what can I possible do with that answer.

 

[redoleander]

I realized a better follow up question may be
How to heed 25.6
61.5.6 > 19

Be truthful, earnest, unaffected. Don’t be arrogant. Don’t believe empty words. Don’t exceed what I actually do or know. Maybe it’s about humility?

I think that all makes sense. I probably asked too many questions…

 

[dfreed]

what will my winter be like:
25.6 > 17

I'm wondering, did you have anything specific in mind when you asked this?

For example, I remember watching a YouTube video where a Tibetan Lama was doing divination (not the Yi, but another oracle) in response to some asking about the winter, but it was about how mild or severe the Tibetan winter would be.

Here where I live this is this concern too, but also with the increasing rain and darkness, people can get down and depressed, so 'what will my winter be like' can be about how one feels, emotionally. And of course with COVID, we might add to this 'how will the state of the world (or our particular part of it) fair this winter?' Or perhaps your question was more general than that, or you had something else in mind?

Also, regarding 25.6 you say, "I don't think I’ve ever gotten it right in terms of taking its ‘advice’." Your query only ask 'how' the winter will be, but can I assume you are also open to hear 'how' you might make it better if your winter is predicted to be (or actually turns out to be) not so good?

Best, D

 

[redoleander]

Yes, I asked with some anxiety because my landlord is selling my building and I’m just generally a bit concerned about stability after already having a lot of instability in the past couple years. So that was in the back of my mind and a general environment of worries at the moment.

I asked about winter because it’s coming up fast and it will be a time when I have limited options since I am high risk and can’t do things in public indoors spaces and obviously outdoor dynamics change in winter. (Also hence why having not much change for the worse in my living situation is important). I mean, maybe that in and of itself could be very 25.6 if I think about it…

I guess I wanted some kind of comfort that things feel hard now but they’ll settle. That’s what I get for asking a question looking for a particular type of answer! Then I got this casting so I wanted to say, ok then, what is the right approach when the line says anything you do is going to be a problem or fruitless. I know there must be some wise approach this this line but I honestly don’t know what it is.

 

[diamant]

what will my winter be like 25.6 > 17
It depends on how you'll handle a hurdle. 25.6 says that if you act in a natural and sincere way, there will be misfortune. So at some point you'll need to act unnaturally and insincerely. How your winter will go will depend on this. 17: to be continued...

 

[Liselle]

what is the right approach when the line says anything you do is going to be a problem or fruitless.

I don't think it means that, though. I think WikiWing could be helpful here. 6th lines are often an extreme of the hexagram, taking the premise of the hexagram too far - I think that's what this is. Being too disengaged is the problem.

 

[redoleander]

I don't think it means that, though. I think WikiWing could be helpful here. 6th lines are often an extreme of the hexagram, taking the premise of the hexagram too far - I think that's what this is. Being too disengaged is the problem.

I had read through wiki wing actually and there are good examples in there, they do give a sense of some of what the line brings or how it feels. To me it’s one of those that feels a little like “but what do I do then”. But maybe that’s the nature of the line. You try your best but even so, you’re going to receive feedback that somehow your best is off the mark or you missed something entirely and then you adjust. So maybe acting and falling into error isn’t about not acting but about being open to seeing the error. Re-reading in there just now made me think about that and it kind of fits actually with what I got out of my third casting (in the second comment). Maybe not do too much crowing once something needs adjustment, just adjust or be willing to give it up if it can’t go anywhere.

When you say too disengaged, do you mean that if there were a suggestion it would be to be more mindful, take things slower, take on less, be more intentional and so forth. Things that would soften or prevent mistakes, essentially? Or something totally different than that?

 

[redoleander]

what will my winter be like 25.6 > 17
It depends on how you'll handle a hurdle. 25.6 says that if you act in a natural and sincere way, there will be misfortune. So at some point you'll need to act unnaturally and insincerely. How your winter will go will depend on this. 17: to be continued...

I could see that in that it’s one form of not being too innocent or letting innocence go too far. Is that kind of the idea?

 

[Liselle]

When you say too disengaged, do you mean that if there were a suggestion it would be to be more mindful, take things slower, take on less, be more intentional and so forth. Things that would soften or prevent mistakes, essentially? Or something totally different than that?

It might be hard to say right now. Maybe just somehow make a point to keep it in mind as you go through the winter, keep asking yourself if there's anything you're being too disengaged from.

This is embarrassing to say after I've been doing weekly readings semi-regularly for several years, but I'm only just now appreciating the fact that it doesn't work for me to cast it and assume I'll remember it in the moments when I need it. I have to make a point to look at it early every day, so it's in the front of my mind. (People with better memories might not have this problem, though.)

 

[dfreed]

what will my winter be like:
25.6 > 17

My overall sense is your winter will be challenging, but ultimately things will work out.

With 25.6 you have trigram Thunder below, and Heaven above with one moving line (the 6th) resulting in 17's upper trigram Lake.

One way I see this is you are all ready to face Winter (thunder), but you have a feeling that it's not going to be entirely good, or be as you hoped or planned (heaven above with one moving line). The Yi's advice here centers around Lake: that you should strive to keep a positive attitude; also, Lake is about communication, so you should begin talking now with others about your changing housing situation.

​

25's judgement mentions that it is not favorable to go somewhere, and .... Line 25.6 reads, "Unexpected journey. Catastrophe will occur [but this is perhaps] unfavorable for nothing" (based on Rutt's translation).​

I see this as saying that you will have an 'unexpected' winter (which I think you already sense), and that at times it may seem glum (catastrophic), but ... if you face this (as thunder would); and you don't try to avoid what's happening (like going away on a journey); and you start now to deal with and communicate about your situation; and if you keep a positive attitude, things will work out:

​

As 17 says, "supreme offering, favorable augury [omen]" - which are the same words that start the Yijing in Hex. 1! And here there is also "no misfortune".​

As an aside: I think it is interesting that you are asking (divining) now about your up-coming winter: your reading includes Lake and Heaven, both trigrams which are associated with autumn in the Houtian Bagua ('later heaven' trigram) Circle. I can imagine some diviners or shamans saying your casting is 'timely' and auspicious: you are asking/casting it in the same season as is found in your reading!

Best, D.

 

[diamant]

I could see that in that it’s one form of not being too innocent or letting innocence go too far. Is that kind of the idea?

Yes that's the idea. The line shows that if someone who is not pretending makes a move or advance, it will result in error and calamity. So the emphasis is on not acting innocently.

 

[my_key]

what will my winter be like:
25.6 > 17

25 meaning meaning 'disaster comes from the outside'
17 meaning ' leaving old grounds for dissention behind'
Nuclear 53 Gradual Progress

This looks like it is going to be a Winter of Discontent for you. This period has a background setting of you working your way free of old conflicts (17) and there will be hardships levied upon you from people and other outer influences (25). At times you will feel as though you are being tossed helplessly about in the ocean. However, what you need to remember is that all these waves are there to bring about small improvements in you and your world. Your biggest challenge for the winter is to remain calm on the inside and to be assertive and to stand in your own power (53).

25.6 - Being buffeted by the waves of the vast ocean is not an pleasant thing to look forward to. Imagine you are in a life raft without oars or rudder. You are unable to steer in any direction you might think is right. Let the waves come to you, deal with each one as it arrives and just focus on staying afloat. Do not struggle unnecessarily and concentrate on saving your energy for the future. Eventually the waves will become nothing more than ripples.

...or it might mean nothing like this at all for you.

Good Luck.

 

[redoleander]

25 meaning meaning 'disaster comes from the outside'
17 meaning ' leaving old grounds for dissention behind'
Nuclear 53 Gradual Progress

This looks like it is going to be a Winter of Discontent for you. This period has a background setting of you working your way free of old conflicts (17) and there will be hardships levied upon you from people and other outer influences (25). At times you will feel as though you are being tossed helplessly about in the ocean. However, what you need to remember is that all these waves are there to bring about small improvements in you and your world. Your biggest challenge for the winter is to remain calm on the inside and to be assertive and to stand in your own power (53).

25.6 - Being buffeted by the waves of the vast ocean is not an pleasant thing to look forward to. Imagine you are in a life raft without oars or rudder. You are unable to steer in any direction you might think is right. Let the waves come to you, deal with each one as it arrives and just focus on staying afloat. Do not struggle unnecessarily and concentrate on saving your energy for the future. Eventually the waves will become nothing more than ripples.

...or it might mean nothing like this at all for you.

Good Luck.

This makes a lot of sense. I think this image is especially helpful, "You are unable to steer in any direction you might think is right. Let the waves come to you, deal with each one as it arrives and just focus on staying afloat. Do not struggle unnecessarily and concentrate on saving your energy for the future. Eventually the waves will become nothing more than ripples." I get caught up in thinking I should foresee everything and reality is that's never possible. It can actually waste a lot of energy, effort, and worry even trying to do that. That could even be part of the meaning of 25.6 for me -- innocent in that I can't actually know so there's not much I can do but move conscientiously. I really appreciate your input; 17 and 53 do seem to fit with getting over heartbreak/separation which is of course never so quick or linear. It's actually hopeful too though because I'd rather be moving in that direction even if slowly.

 

[redoleander]

My overall sense is your winter will be challenging, but ultimately things will work out.

With 25.6 you have trigram Thunder below, and Heaven above with one moving line (the 6th) resulting in 17's upper trigram Lake.

One way I see this is you are all ready to face Winter (thunder), but you have a feeling that it's not going to be entirely good, or be as you hoped or planned (heaven above with one moving line). The Yi's advice here centers around Lake: that you should strive to keep a positive attitude; also, Lake is about communication, so you should begin talking now with others about your changing housing situation.

​

25's judgement mentions that it is not favorable to go somewhere, and .... Line 25.6 reads, "Unexpected journey. Catastrophe will occur [but this is perhaps] unfavorable for nothing" (based on Rutt's translation).​

I see this as saying that you will have an 'unexpected' winter (which I think you already sense), and that at times it may seem glum (catastrophic), but ... if you face this (as thunder would); and you don't try to avoid what's happening (like going away on a journey); and you start now to deal with and communicate about your situation; and if you keep a positive attitude, things will work out:

​

As 17 says, "supreme offering, favorable augury [omen]" - which are the same words that start the Yijing in Hex. 1! And here there is also "no misfortune".​

As an aside: I think it is interesting that you are asking (divining) now about your up-coming winter: your reading includes Lake and Heaven, both trigrams which are associated with autumn in the Houtian Bagua ('later heaven' trigram) Circle. I can imagine some diviners or shamans saying your casting is 'timely' and auspicious: you are asking/casting it in the same season as is found in your reading!

Best, D.

Ah, interesting about the autumnal emphasis! Facing it like thunder would makes a lot of sense. I wonder if even the autumnal emphasis hidden in there is even saying that some of what winter will be depends on autumn decisions? Like a message to take responsibility instead of seeing it as fate somehow? That's sort of a departure though and maybe not aligned; I'll look forward to studying more about that. I agree that on some level it's telling me what I already sense. That I'm ready for hard times to be 'over' and they aren't so it depends on how I handle it. As always, I suppose. I think that seed of 17 is in there as you and @my_key both pointed out so... after winter comes spring.

 

[redoleander]

It might be hard to say right now. Maybe just somehow make a point to keep it in mind as you go through the winter, keep asking yourself if there's anything you're being too disengaged from.

This is embarrassing to say after I've been doing weekly readings semi-regularly for several years, but I'm only just now appreciating the fact that it doesn't work for me to cast it and assume I'll remember it in the moments when I need it. I have to make a point to look at it early every day, so it's in the front of my mind. (People with better memories might not have this problem, though.)

This seems pretty normal, to me anyway. I think re-reading something every day is really helpful for remembering an intention so that is a really good suggestion

 

[redoleander]

Yes that's the idea. The line shows that if someone who is not pretending makes a move or advance, it will result in error and calamity. So the emphasis is on not acting innocently.

This makes sense. I probably need to think about how these messages apply to my own more automatic behaviors or reactions so I can think about potential for going astray

 

[dfreed]

even saying that some of what winter will be depends on autumn decisions? Like a message to take responsibility instead of seeing it as fate somehow?

.... That's sort of a departure though ....

I think all of that is true - or can be. My sense of the Yi is that it gives us information about our situation, and an answer or answers to our specific question or query - AND it suggests ways to deal with the situation - if these are needed.

That said, I do not know what you mean by 'sort of a departure'? A departure from what?

As an aside, I've been hanging out and working with another Chinese oracle, the T'ai Hsuan Ching - called The Canon of Supreme Mystery, The Elemental Changes, or just The Mystery. It was written 800-900 years after the Yi (circa 2 BC). It shares some things in common with the Yi, but it is very much it's own creature: it has 81 four-line Tetragrams, and each of these have nine 'appraisals' - and it is consulted in a way that is similar to, but not the same as the Yi.

One thing it has 'built into' it is the idea of time: for example, each of the 81 tetragrams corresponds to a period of time - e.g. Tetra. 19's 'time' is March 13 to a.m. March 17. And three each of the nine appraisals corresponds to the part of the day when the divination takes place: 3 with morning, 3 with midday, and 3 with evening/night. The introduction also explains that:

"If the days assigned to the tetragram are later than the date (the divination is done), this is inherently auspicious." As I understand it, this means - in a very practical way - that because you are asking or divining about your situation ahead of the actual event, you have more opportunities (and more time) to effect change; whereas if you are asking while you're dealing with a situation, or afterwards, you may have less opportunities.

And this - along with the seasonal associations of heaven and lake - are where I get the idea that your 'timing' is auspicious: that you have time to work on your situation before, ahead of, Winter, instead of just (later) reacting to what the 'fates have in store for you'.

Best, D

 

[marybluesky]

I think 25.6>17 says you will act without pretense without reaching what you want.
6.5>64 points to a struggle which won't finish soon, but is worthy.

 

[redoleander]

I think 25.6>17 says you will act without pretense without reaching what you want.
6.5>64 points to a struggle which won't finish soon, but is worthy.

Thanks for this, it's helpful. I think that actually helps me see 25.6 another way because often a line that is about fruitlessness can feel permanent, but nothing is permanent. I think it says that because the things i'm working toward now are much bigger and won't come in a few months time. I agree that they are worthy things though.

 

[picklebop]

what will my winter be like:
25.6 > 17

I really struggle with this line and I don’t think I’ve ever gotten it right in terms of taking its ‘advice’. I may totally misunderstand it but it seems to say not doing and doing are both a bad idea Well then.

followed up with
What is 25.6 referring to
6.5 > 64

I thought this could be my divorce? I don’t know really what else I’m ‘arguing’ for at the moment although the line could also be responding to me misunderstanding the first answer. 25.6 just seemed so broad and feels almost like what can I possible do with that answer.

25 seems to suggest meeting winter with an innocent mind free of preconceptions and accting in accordance with the conditions. This could be something as simple as making sure you have nurturing activities and environments, and that you need to have some kind of inner equilibrium to succeed. It can imply problems, but that you are not at fault. 6 suggests you don't force directions in advance- to not act prematurely. Panic can easily cause this kind of misfortune!

17 suggests success and harmony of sorts, a time to rest and recuperate. The thunder aspect to me suggests both the world situation and your personal circumstances with the house. Something overpowering, yet not your fault and something that rages outside rather than within. Glad acceptance, and doing the right thing. This is a really nice finishing hexagram.

Your follow up question feels like 6 is referring to your stressed feelings about the situation, but that you will be okay if you make small improvements and don't overreach yourself. Essentially a reassurance that suggests you don't laser-focus on one thing, but rather on your general emotional state. It also stresses the need to plan first. Line 5 implies good fortune, because you are acting correctly and staying in the correct place. Some translations suggest seeking wise counsel and that you will be persuasive and successful. There may even be issues in common with this situation and your divorce, as the answers seem equally applicable.

The finishing 64 indicates things won't be all neatly tied off in the immediate future, but you are in transit to something else. Given the situation that is a rather good thing...there may be setbacks and that is to be expected. Don't force any plans and prepare for the unexpected and you will be as wise as a little animal in the world- I love how this line references a fox, as they are such intelligent animals, survivors and tricksters, yet vulnerable here- only a little fox! It stresses how important careful judgement is before acting on anything, to keep all the elements in the right proportion. Things aren't yet settled and you have free choice and your considerable resources of self...you just need to stay calmly aware of your surroundings and look after your internal fire.

This hexagram has a very free visual to me- the small animal who needs to be careful yet is in a beautiful open space, cool and open and with a great expanse of still water. Maybe a little lonely, but beautiful and full of latent possibility.

 

[redoleander]

Thank you, @picklebop , this was really lovely and so appreciated. I think that your perspective on this reading and especially this, "the small animal who needs to be careful yet is in a beautiful open space, cool and open and with a great expanse of still water. Maybe a little lonely, but beautiful and full of latent possibility," holds excellent suggestion in how to approach this time. It's not so bad for winter. Winter holds some of that anyway; the energy being more about going within and generally trying to expend too much or push too hard sort of backfiring. I appreciate the peaceful quality you brought to this, it's very helpful. Thank you