28 to 32... Help please...

[soshin]

Hi all,

recently I got this hexgram sequence as an answer to a question regarding the relationship with a close friend of mine.

He is the son of equally good friends of mine, which I know for about twenty years now and are kind of a second family to me. I already knew them when he was born, and we soon - as he grew up - developed a strong affection to each other.

I became a second father to him in the following years and until recently this "Father-son-relationship" evolved slowly to a friendship as he grew up to become seventeen.

But in the last years - starting slowly - a lot of misunderstandings occured mostly out of the change of behaviour which seem to be normal for an adolescent guy.

We always tried to overcome them both and had mostly success in our efforts, but in the last weeks things culminated and out of the not-so-good sides of our respective characters we developed a certain enstrangement.

So I asked about the here-and-now meaning of our friendship and got 28.5 as an answer, changing to 32.

So I am standing here without a real clue...

Maybe you can help...

Your answers would be deeply appreciated because the question is vitally important to me to develop a better understanding of the evolution in our friendship.

Thank you,

Soshin

 

[dharma]

Soshin,
your relationship with this young man has changed as is the nature of things. you need to remember this and not attempt to recapture old feelings and conditions between you in the same way that used to work before. the old methods that used to work must be abandoned and new methods adopted or you will simply be going over the same old ground (you will fail to reach him). this is not necessarily "bad" - you will still have a relationship, but if you are hoping to attain a similar closeness that you enjoyed in the past then you must be willing to interact with him as though meeting him for the first time. let him know through your actions and your words that you recognize and respect his newfound maturity.

 

[chrislofting]

Soshin,

28 deals with excess (being too full) but also in the form of doing more for someone than is required, to go the extra distance etc.

As a warning, the attraction AWAY from the archetype of 28 is 'in' 32 and the focus is perhaps on issues of over-commitment, going the extra yard is fine, but going the extra mile may be 'detramental' to the spirit of 28.

As a true change, so going beyond what is required turns into strong commitment.

The ICPlus line comment for 28.5 is ""A withered willow flowers. An elderly lady marries a learned man. No harm. No praise. One attempts to augment one's appearance."

for more on 28 - http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/lofting/x011110.html - click on the hexagram symbol for another page on line details etc.

for 32 - http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/lofting/x001110.html


since within the octet of wind-based hexagrams 28 is the 'exaggeration' of the more 'balance-focused' qualities expressed in 18, (as in correcting corruption) have a look at 18.5 as well.

Chris.

 

[soshin]

Thank you both for your help. Your hints were most welcome, because I had a blind spot in exactly that issue both of you are bringing forth. Over-commitment is a good term for what I was doing. And the old methods seemed not to work anymore. Now I am trying a different approach - strong commitment inside anymore and a little pulling back in the outside world... and guess - it works fine!


---"the old methods that used to work must be abandoned and new methods adopted or you will simply be going over the same old ground (you will fail to reach him). this is not necessarily "bad" - you will still have a relationship, but if you are hoping to attain a similar closeness that you enjoyed in the past then you must be willing to interact with him as though meeting him for the first time."---

---"As a warning, the attraction AWAY from the archetype of 28 is 'in' 32 and the focus is perhaps on issues of over-commitment, going the extra yard is fine, but going the extra mile may be 'detramental' to the spirit of 28.

As a true change, so going beyond what is required turns into strong commitment."----

Thank you so much,

Yours,

Soshin

P.S.: Any complementing opinions out there? I know I´m a greedy guy... ;-)

 

[heylise]

Hex.28 is 'crossing the big mountain-pass', and it is often used for the transition of working life to old age. But of course it can just as well be any change from one life-phase into another.
Hex.32 is following your own true course, the direction of your real being.

Without looking at the line, I immediately thought the change was a natural one, so I agree completely with Dharma.

And then the lines, 28.5: "A withered poplar grows foliage. An old woman gets a real man as husband". When an end comes to something, then don't sit down and stop living. Go on with the possibilities you still have. Maybe you will even find a new life, a realm you could never have found before.

Found a new meaning for the old woman! Old feelings find new energy, new fields to work in, new connections.

And the fan-yao, 32.5: "Steadying one's character, Determination. . young men pitfall". Not always a steady character is the best one. Sometimes one has to explore the world, change situations, find new experiences. Or maybe one's character has not found its own shape yet.

LiSe
Yi Jing, Book of Sun and Moon
www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching

 

[soshin]

Hi all,

first of all, thank you again for your help. The friendship became a better one through your advice.

But the Yijing is telling me some diquieting news. I asked again about the nature of this friendship a few days ago, and the answer was 63, After Completion, static.

So today I asked again, the answer was 54, Marrying Maiden, 2nd line changing to 51, Thunder.

Especially the second answer was shocking to me, as it obviously speaks of disunion and alienation.

Until now, nothing bad happened, but of course I´m alarmed and very mindful these days.

Could you please tell me your considerations about 54/2 as I do not fully understand it?

Thank you,

Soshin

 

[cheiron]

Dear Soshin

Maybe this quote from Ritsema Karcher's I Ching might help.

Of 54.2 they say:
"Squinting enables observing.
Shade peoples advantageous Trial. Harvesting"

(Trial, by the way is the word they use for 'Inquiry by divination')

Their commentary on this is:
"Stay out of sight for now. Don't get involved with struggles for power. Look at things from an independent perspective. You will learn a lot this way, and will be able to unfold your plans."


Hx.51 For me is most often about a substancial change that is in progress or will take place.

Hoping this enables you to find the connection.

--Kevin

 

[cheiron]

Hello again Soshin

Pondering more ? Had a look at Nigel Richmond? It struck me there might be a resonance here:

54: ?Held Back Breaks Forth?

?His natural flow,
too long held back,
accepts any course for movement.
Desire long unfulfilled
Breaks forth
How else could it become?

Of line two he says:
?Co-ordinating his feelings for a breakthrough, he needs to be single minded to get his feelings expressed. It is important for him to do this.?

Of 51 He says:
?Shock follows shock
Until his reality
Itself is shaken.
Then he will laugh from his belly
At his alarm
At his escape
At his relief
And examine his weakness.?

Hope you don?t mind my librarianship!


--Kevin

 

[mystery2mastery]

The I Ching Oracle: Nigel Richmond

Here Richmond has re-interpreted his own approach, expanded it, and tied it closer to the original Chinese imagery. Richmond has the knack of hitting the nail squarely on the head when the book is used in consultation, his work has a Zen-like simplicity and 'cutting through' quality. This depth is not so apparent when the comments are read in isolation. It is typewritten, privately printed on comb-bound A4 sheets, probably in no more than a thousand copies, if that. It has disappeared without trace, I have never seen it in a bookshop. This is a great shame as it is a masterly achievement. Published in 1985.

http://www.biroco.com/yijing/survey.htm


this is my favorite book too.

 

[mystery2mastery]

if anyboady knows where can I buy copyrights for this book, I am happily ready to re-publish it.

too bad this book is out of print.

The Edition Publisher is Wildwood House (London, Wildwood House)
I believe the author is alive, but he has no presence at the web.
all I see here is the name of the book:
"Language of the lines : The I Ching Oracle"
ASIN: 0704502992 by Nigel Richmond

 

[soshin]

Thank you Chris, LiSe and Kevin for your help. It was most welcome and valuable for me.

Under the omens which showed up I prefer to withdraw from the "petty man" in him, because it wouldn´t be right to be supportive to the inferior parts of his character, which expand all too clearly recently. If this includes that he will move away from me, then I am willing to pay the price, knowing that what belongs to me will never truly be lost.

And, as LiSe stated so well, I get more energy for other relationships which were a little bit underrated lately.

Namaste,

Soshin

 

[soshin]

Hi, Kevin!

Thank you for the quoting of the Richmond Yijing.

?Shock follows shock
Until his reality
Itself is shaken.
Then he will laugh from his belly
At his alarm
At his escape
At his relief
And examine his weakness.?

So true, so true! In reality, yesterday I was with him and his family, and it came to a culmination of our respective provisos, but it was perfectly solved -with a lot of help from his parents. Lots of wailing and weeping and therafter understanding and happiness. Gosh, the change was substancial. I´m very grateful for that.

Now I got 45,4 which changes to 8 when I asked about what has changed now. I have no uncertainities about that, but would you please be so kind to post the respective lines in Richmonds Yijing for even better understanding?

I also would be very happy with additional thoughts about this hexagrams from all of you.

A happy monk ))

Soshin

 

[cal val]

What kind of relationship does the mirror reading have with this one. IOW, how does 32 to 28 relate to 28 to 32?

Thanks.

Val

 

[bradford_h]

Hi Val-
IMO, this is one of the clearest examples (in Ma Xia's rigorous sense) of a Fan Yao reference. It certainly says more about who the man and woman are at 32.5.
b

 

[chrislofting]

Val,

As covered to some degree earlier re 28 to 32, it is:

(1)As a warning, 28 reflects excess and as such going beyond what is required but 32 is distorting this process, there an excess of excess in the form of commitment. That over focusing of the exaggeration in the first place is/will cause problems. Going overboard for someone/something is for the moment, for the immediate - the distortion is to go beyond going overboard, to turn the excess into a long term process - that is considered 'negative'

(2)As a true change, to put in the extra energy to something / for someone is leading to commitment. IOW the value in going the extra distance is in the transformation of the situation into a long term commitement that is deemed 'positive'.

32 to 28

(1) As a warning, 32 reflects commitment but commitment is one thing, manic focus another. Going too far leads to a loss of focus of the 'big picture', the creation of one's own little world that can be at odds with the perspectives of others in the situation. And so a warning where one is being distracted by 28 'away' from the path of 32.

(2) as a true change, the preparedness to commit leads to going beyond what is usually required for some purpose/event but this is seen as something positive in that the focus is refined but not 'manic' and there is a true, positive, benefit.

In any 'change' process it is the CONTEXT that sets the theme overall. Thus 28 to 32 is a context of 28 and 32 applies 'within' that context as an agent of distraction (the warning format, where shape-shifting is at work) or as an agent of transcendence (the positive, total change format).

Shape-shifting reflects the pushing of buttons by context. To stay 'true' to the context means to stay on the path of that context - e.g. 28 as context, thus 32 is causing shape-shifting 'away' from that core context. LOCALLY it may be of value but since it takes you away from the archetype that is the context so a focus is on a warning.

True change reflects a change of context, e.g. from a context of 28 to a context of 32. This is a CORE change, a 'transcendence' and reflects 'escape' at work (or more so opportunism/exploitation) The Transcendence process affects core self, it is not a facade as such.

Context change means:

(1) to back out of a situation (a context) into another ("anything but this!")
(2) to choose a path of escape from a situation into another (e.g. escape to new country etc)
(3) opportunism/exploitation - there is no need to escape but the 'grass seems greener' in some other context.

The realm of the Transcendence function is the realm of the sense of 'freedom' in that it appears to have its roots in a need to escape a habit/instinct. As such it is LOCAL, 'enlightening', the realm of 'eurika!' - but it can also serve as a source of delusion (as in we 'think' the grass is greener but in fact when we get there we find no grass, just Astroturf!.)

On the otherhand the realm of the Transformation function is a focus on integrating with the context, learning good habits/instincts to fit in. Thus if the context is X so to 'fit in' we conform to the context - change as such is peripheral not core, but that peripheral can be 'tempting' as well as generally distracting - we can get caught in the 'buzz' of shape-shifting and in doing so become lost from the 'core' focus.

Chris.