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[chingching]

...
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[dfreed]

Why are there more casts of 1>2 and 2>1?
Is it because there is a designated meaning for all-lines-changing (the seventh line)?

An interesting line journey of 1 from a page on Dragon Philosophy ...

It seems you're putting the horse before the cart here. Because the diviners who created the Yi gave us a seventh line verse for Hexagrams 1 and 2 didn't automatically change the laws of probabilities, or make all-lines-changing for these two hexagrams more prevalent or popular.

Hexagram 1's all lines changing reads: See a dragon without heads. Auspicious: - one way I see this is it's time to get out of one's head (over-thinking, over-analyzing) and get more down-to-earth. That's one possibility.

Hexagram 2's all lines changing is: Long-term augury favorable. (or in another translation, 'worth enduring persistence'.): - so perhaps, in a very general way, getting all lines change here is a good thing; and that we should persist. So, that's another possibility.

And ... for me, the "Dragon Philosophy' line journey seems to be turning the Zhouyi into subject matter for fortune cookies. If that's where we want to go with it, I'd rather do the trick of adding 'in bed' to the end of each statement, like:

​

1.2: 'We need to go to school for knowledge in bed'; or ... ​

​

1.5: 'Your good reputation can bring you wealth in bed!' ​

At least this way it makes sense and is practical!

 

[chingching]

I'd rather do the trick of adding 'in bed' to the end of each statement

"That's what he said."

@dfreed just calling things as I see them. There's some kind of strange attractor that pulls more 1>2 castings. I'm just wondering about that invisible thing, not being impractical.

I have only ever cast four all lines changing readings, 1>2, 1>2, 2>1 and 11>12
Seems the oracle favours 1 and 2's to me, or perhaps just for me, who knows? After looking through the hexagram search, there are many more posts about 1>2 than other all changing castings. Perhaps only due to the excitement of receiving the seventh line of 1 and wanting to share it.

I think looking at how readings play out with oneself, other people and their experiences and through the evidence in one's diary and in online forums is a more grounded way to understand oracles, as oppose to never taking a creative risk to look at an ancient text in a new way. And yes you should totally get out of your head and get earthy and then create!

Perhaps a good seventh line for 2 > 1: A couple of diviners at the end of casting all probabilities are happily perplexed by huge mysterious gaps in the text they consult.

Leads to creativity instead of criticism.

 

[breakmov]

Perhaps a good seventh line for 2 > 1: A couple of diviners at the end of casting all probabilities are happily perplexed by huge mysterious gaps in the text they consult.

food for thought:

hex2>1
In order for hex2 to manifest its qualities, hex1 has to recycle its ideas/projects.

does this make sense, or is there the risk of some kind of "metaphysical embroglio" in this relationship between hex2 and hex1?

breakmov

 

[Trojina]

I think looking at how readings play out with oneself, other people and their experiences and through the evidence in one's diary and in online forums is a more grounded way to understand oracles, as oppose to never taking a creative risk to look at an ancient text in a new way. And yes you should totally get out of your head and get earthy and then create!

I had a similar problem when trying to continue with many of the 'Your experience with unchanging hexagrams' threads. Despite it being in the actual title that I was inviting people simply to post their experiences people would keep coming along to say why these didn't count and posting lots of theory. In the 11 uc thread I think I just began an offshoot thread so those people could go over there whilst the experiences thread was kept mainly just for experiences. We know that just because someone has an experience with a cast that doesn't mean the cast just means that, we have always known that, but still there is value in hearing other's experiences.


If you still have the first post chingching then might you repost it since otherwise we can't see what the thread is really about and also you already had 1 constructive reply from crazycrane but that's gone too ?

I'd need to read the first deleted post a few times to fully get what it's about because there were a lot of different ideas in there I'd question the dragon path thing too but that doesn't mean you need delete the whole thing does it ?

Keep going I say...


BTW it was very clear when we got to the 11uc thread there was a gender divide with women generally being far more interested in experiences with Yi and men leaning more to the theoretical/looking to authors and so on. You can see this simply by comparing the number of SR threads started by women with the number of ED started by men. Of course this is a very crude generalisation, I realise that, it's a trend but a very discernible one in my view. I recall some people even saying the Experiences with the UC hexagrams ought to be in SR as if somehow experiences weren't somehow enough for the more lofty ED area. It being the 11/12 pair where this divide came up most clearly to the point where an offshoot thread was needed seemed very apt at the time with heaven and earth heading different directions in the pair.



It must have taken you a long time to write that first post and Hilary did invite you to start the thread so I can't see why you should delete it because of what someone said.

 

[Trojina]

If I recall right was the gist of the idea that we come up with an all lines changing meaning for every hexagram ? We do of course know this would be a creative thing that isn't already there in Yi but that's no reason not to have a go is it ?

There was far more in the post, lots of nice things about the forum and lots of other ideas I couldn't take in at the time being tired.

 

[dfreed]

dfreed just calling things as I see them.

Good. I was looking for your original post, but I don’t see it? Did you delete it for some reason?

Since it’s not there, this thread doesn’t have a title, nor am I now quite sure what you intended this post to be about?

Best, d

 

[chingching]

Yes because I'm tired of the gendered, or perhaps even generational, divide as Trojina explained, I'm tired of being shot down because I have a diffuse, complex and creative point of view; because I look to experiences in reality for understanding; because I'm not overly theoretical or scholarly; because I think entering into a play with concepts—with others—before making them concrete has value. And that does not make me 'ungrounded' or lacking in an understanding of the law of probability.

@Trojina perhaps at another moment in time I wouldn't have, but I'm just very exhausted from a lot of things over the last year and wasn't sure about what I wrote, and my doubt always attracts critics, so was feeling nervous. Thanks for what you wrote.

Really it's a subject I wish were covered here and started by someone else—readings with all lines changing; people's actual experiences with them, as well as their thoughts because there are not as many castings; and playing around with a seventh line as an inclusive understanding of the whole gua meaning; and of all the lines; and of an exploration of the difference of feeling of those all line castings, as they clearly have, as can be seen in the posts about them on the forum here. Also clearly there are more posts about 1>2 than any other all line changing casting.

@dfreed the dragon philosophy website's meanings for the lines may not be sophisticated, but the reason I included it was because it gives a non punitive distillation of line 6. While the negative is a possibility it is not a certainty as is evident in, at least, the outcomes of my own castings. But all you could see was a way to devalue it. Wisdom isn't always going to be standing at a podium, printed in a book or expressing itself in obtuse academic terms. And more often than not, you do find it in a fortune cookie, or other seemingly unimportant coincidences of the like.

 

[legume]

while i don't have answer to that question (and the question disappeared anyway), one user had some thoughts on it and i believe there was a similar thread here years back, maybe this helps.

 

[Trojina]

Unless there are some deleted posts attacking you, I don't see anyone "shooting you down"

But I do see someone taking personally when the ideas they entertain are criticsed.
Seems like something to work on, no?

Huh....are you kidding ! Unless you want this to go completely off track probably better to drop that line of thinking.

 

[Trojina]

I've sent you a PM

 

[Trojina]

I don't think anyone here has used the term 'personal attack' so you are looking for something that no one has said exists. However there is some hurt and that's another matter. If you don't understand what's happened then you don't understand and I'm not going to explain in a public area where you are seemingly unaware of things.

Shame the thread has been ruined

 

[dfreed]

I see flaws in thinking, that were pointed out by dfreed .... and a strong reaction to that...

.... because I'm tired of the gendered, or perhaps even generational, divide ....

I shared my thoughts here, which were never intended as a personal attack. So, I'm sorry if it was taken in that way. (And I am more than willing to discuss this with some of you via messaging if you wish.)

At this point, since the original post is mostly gone (except for three broken lines, which gives us the trigram Earth), I'm not remembering - nor am I clear about - what this thread was originally supposed to be about: A place to collect all 1>2 and 2>1 readings? A place to collect or share any readings where we have all lines changing? A place to discuss why 1>2 and 2>1 castings seem to be more common then other types of readings where all lines change?

Or is this thread meant as a space to offer alternative words and meanings for 1>2 and 2>1, et al? Like, 2 > 1: "A couple of diviners at the end of casting all probabilities are happily perplexed by huge mysterious gaps in the text they consult. (This) Leads to creativity instead of criticism."

... or is this thread meant to be a combination of some or all of the above?

As to my comments on 'dragon philosophy' in particular; I just don't find it useful to turn:

​

1.2: Lo, on fields a dragon bides. To meet with great men well betides' (Rutt) into ...​

1.2 "We need to go to school for knowledge'; ... or to turn:​

​

1. 5: 'A dragon through the heavens glides; to meet with great men well betides' into ...​

1.5: 'Your good reputation can bring you wealth'.​

But if others find it useful, so be it. That doesn't mean I can't comment on it, or that what I said amounts to a personal attack on anyone here.

Regards, D

 

[legume]

aahhh, it's about all changing lines, sorry, i misunderstood. never experienced 1/2 or 11/12 pair with all lines changed, that feels kinda special. not sure i should share now that the OP is gone (and the discussion has gone completely sideways)... i'd be happy to add my experiences to the thread, just not sure anymore what the actual topic was (whether specific hex pair or all lines readings in general)? either way i hope this will pick up somehow, the uc threads are really useful and i was hoping you'd start this as well, it's interesting to see how people experience such casts.

 

[moss elk]

I don't think anyone here has used the term 'personal attack' ...

Then, what's your problem?

 

[Trojina]

You are the one going on about it ? You used the term 'personal attack', she didn't say that but she clearly felt put down.

Don't make out I have a problem when you bought it up demanding to know why she felt shot down and demanding the specific words were highlighted for you. You can do stuff like that in PM but for some reason you want to hijack the thread