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34,6 Aaaarrgghh

Trojina

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On the face of it the meaning of this line is quite clear isn't it - you can't make any headway, theres no use you trying to force a direction, you'd be like a ram stuck in a hedge - okay - but what are you supposed to do then, just sit back and wait, try to see things from another angle, change perspective ? Again that sounds pretty straight forward yet I can't see for myself really what kind of behaviour or attitude change its counselling. I've had it several times when I feel I really must make some kind of big effort or change to get my life to move along. Feeling quite determined and positive i ask Yi about my direction etc - in quite broad terms - hmm only to be told I had better just quit trying to make headway at all. Would you say this counsels passivity and patience or does one need to work at changing perspective ?

BTW I've been stuck, very patiently in a groove for some time now so was suprised to still get 34,6.

A tad exasperated I asked a question along the lines of 'well if I can't do anything what can I do' (I know what I meant and I find the Yi usually knows what I mean even in badly worded questions) and got 21,3. I take this as I need to sort out some old and annoying issues, dealing with some frustration in the process. So I think I will have to go through a period of frustration - and the first answer indicates that too.

I'm wondering how people here work with 34,6, how they take the advice there ? :bows:
 
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lightofreason

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[Pushing one's point of view up against that of the group gets one stuck. As a result one get's bogged down. Stop all action].
 

martin

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I think 34.6 doesn't necessarily mean that you have to sit back and do nothing. But is does indicate a tendency to try to go faster than it goes.
If you jump from a high cliff into a lake the water will hit you hard, like a wall. Yet water is in itself not like a wall, it is soft and gives way. The wall-effect is created by your speed.
It's the same with the ram and the hedge. You could say that the ram runs faster than the hedge can give way. And then it gets entangled.
Another analogy, if you drive too fast through a city you will often have to stop for a red light. But if you drive slower (but not too slow) most lights that you encounter will be green. Because it's made that way, well, at least here in this country, I think. :)

So, I guess it's all a matter of slowing down, till you are in sync with the 'speed of the tao'. Or maybe I should say the beat of the tao?
 
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bruce_g

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There's a thorny tree/shrub which grows abundantly here, appropriately called Catclaw Acacia, and it has the nickname "wait-a-minute bush". The reason for the nickname becomes quickly obvious if one should come into the slightest contact with it. Any movement you make only digs the needle sharp claws deeper into your clothes or skin, and other wily branches attach with each movement. The only way to extricate yourself from it is to stand very still, relax, and patiently and carefully remove one claw at a time. Fighting against it is the worst thing you can possibly do.
 
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Tohpol

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I'm wondering how people here work with 34,6, how they take the advice there ? :bows:


I've got this A LOT in the last few months and the following 21 as the transitional.

I really sympathize. 52 often makes an appearance after a while too if you just can't calm all that electrical creativity that want's to push through to a resolution. It's like you can think you're being patient but inside is turmoil. To really allow things to become fluid again a little bit of faith and digging down into the real issues preventing progress might be the key. Is there any unresolved "stuff" related to something/one that needs to be addressed? Something you've missed and which is causing a block perhaps?

But there seems to be great potential with this hex too in that it's a matter of understanding better your personality and the energy that must be redirected in a more disciplined way. I know when I'm battering my head against the wall and being obstinate but I didn't fully realise how subtle that could be until recently. Even when I thought i had damn well waited long enough!

Maybe you could try to free things up a bit by doing something completely different, something out-of-the-box? By that I mean an activity that is at a tangent to the main problem. Sometimes this can have positive effects in ways we hadn't imagined.

Topal
 

Trojina

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Thanks to all. The speed issue which Martin and Bruce talk about is something that definately applies yet i hadn't thought of it before with this line - i feel rushed even if I have plenty of time, I've really noticed that lately. I've intuited slowing down on a deep level is something that would be good for me but didn't link it with 34,6. It ties in well with Topals response - speed invites habitual response which keeps the same patterns operating.
 
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Trojina

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But there seems to be great potential with this hex too in that it's a matter of understanding better your personality and the energy that must be redirected in a more disciplined way. I know when I'm battering my head against the wall and being obstinate but I didn't fully realise how subtle that could be until recently. Even when I thought i had damn well waited long enough!

Topal

Yes I think you get very near with this. Reading these responses i realise part of the problem is my understanding of what that thorny hedge is. I've tended to see it as outward circumstances, yet now it dawns on me it could well be what I'm doing with my own energy. The thorny hedge being something I'm spinning around myself like a restrictive web - maybe a tangle of habitual thought patterns/responses and so on.

The 21,3 could refer to dealing with that.

Thanks I'm glad I posted here about it. :)
 

Trojina

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Another analogy, if you drive too fast through a city you will often have to stop for a red light. But if you drive slower (but not too slow) most lights that you encounter will be green. Because it's made that way, well, at least here in this country, I think. :)


I didn't know that BTW :cool:
 
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bruce_g

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Yes I think you get very near with this. Reading these responses i realise part of the problem is my understanding of what that thorny hedge is. I've tended to see it as outward circumstances, yet now it dawns on me it could well be what I'm doing with my own energy. The thorny hedge being something I'm spinning around myself like a restrictive web - maybe a tangle of habitual thought patterns/responses and so on.

Every time I tangle (literally) with those Catclaw Acacias I think of 34.6. The other day I was outback, pruning a huge one which grows against the fence. There's a sense of panic that sets in when one branch hooks into your arm, and every move you make only hooks it deeper, and hooks you to more thin branches. First thing is to just stop, then relax everything. Then one by one, each thorn hook is pulled out, and finally to slowly and deliberately step out of it.

There's another incident which brings both 3 and 34.6 to mind. I use baitcasting fishing reels, and sometimes the spool over-spins the line, resulting in a backlash or "bird's nest". The worst thing to do is start yanking on the line, as that only digs the knots deeper into the spool. The only way to clear it is to find the top loop, gently tugging it free, then the next loop, and so on. It requires calmness and patience. Aggression just makes an irreconcilable mess of it.
 

Sparhawk

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Bruce, I like the metaphor of the Catclaw Acacia. Trojan, here is my funny take on this line... :D


Click it


L
 

dobro p

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On the face of it the meaning of this line is quite clear isn't it - you can't make any headway, theres no use you trying to force a direction, you'd be like a ram stuck in a hedge - okay - but what are you supposed to do then, just sit back and wait, try to see things from another angle, change perspective ? Again that sounds pretty straight forward yet I can't see for myself really what kind of behaviour or attitude change its counselling.

Westerners always want to *do* something. (I'm the same.) But 34.6 is telling you that you *can't* do anything and that you should be without any personal direction now. That's the whole point.


A tad exasperated I asked a question along the lines of 'well if I can't do anything what can I do' (I know what I meant and I find the Yi usually knows what I mean even in badly worded questions) and got 21,3. I take this as I need to sort out some old and annoying issues, dealing with some frustration in the process.

I think the only thing you have to sort out and bite through is your assumption that there's something you can or should do about the issue you asked about earlier. See, Hex 34 is about power, its uses and abuses, I guess. And 34.6 is telling you you're stuck and you can't do anything. So the smart thing to do is...nothing. Consider this for a moment: what if the only way you're ever gonna get unstuck from this situation you're stuck in is to...surrender? See, if that's the only way you're ever gonna get free, then thrashing around and asking the Yi for different advice isn't going to work very well. Consider also that on this one occasion, I just might p-o-s-s-i-b-l-y be right. I probably shouldn't mention this, cuz you'll be tempted to reject what I'm saying and that'll leave you stuck, right? Serve you right though lol.
 

Trojina

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I get the analogies Bruce they help thanks. I'm still trying to twist myself imaginatively round them. If I get this line over a specific issue its alot easier to see because then I can be aware of where I'm ramming :rofl: But here asking about finding general direction, feeling a bit lost, as if there is progress I ought to make if only i could see clearly, I need to get clearer for myself what the Catclaw Acacia is for me. I'm thinking as i said above its internal stuff - soul hedges with a soul ram butting it.


So c'mon Luis how does one install gates and prune hedges on a soul level :D ? Well stopping thinking for a while might help i guess..

Actually so far here i have the ideas of slowing down, patience and maybe doing something like Topal said - completely different.
 
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bruce_g

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Your focus is vague and so lacks precision. hahaha just kidding

Yes, applying the metaphor is the tricky part, especially when the matter is a muddled internal one. Not always easy to put your finger directly on it. I believe the main idea is to relax, to not try so hard; or perhaps like Martin said - slowing down, till you are in sync with the 'speed of the tao', in general.
 

Trojina

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Westerners always want to *do* something. (I'm the same.) But 34.6 is telling you that you *can't* do anything and that you should be without any personal direction now. That's the whole point.




I think the only thing you have to sort out and bite through is your assumption that there's something you can or should do about the issue you asked about earlier. See, Hex 34 is about power, its uses and abuses, I guess. And 34.6 is telling you you're stuck and you can't do anything. So the smart thing to do is...nothing. Consider this for a moment: what if the only way you're ever gonna get unstuck from this situation you're stuck in is to...surrender? See, if that's the only way you're ever gonna get free, then thrashing around and asking the Yi for different advice isn't going to work very well. Consider also that on this one occasion, I just might p-o-s-s-i-b-l-y be right. I probably shouldn't mention this, cuz you'll be tempted to reject what I'm saying and that'll leave you stuck, right? Serve you right though lol.

Dobro you're so right :rofl: . But you see the other thing we have to contend with when we do nothing is other people. They call us lazy, not pro-active enough, they want to know exactly how much effort we're making to move - its hard not to be affected by that just a little - and to wonder if they're right.

If I were surrounded in my 'real' life by folks like you it would be so much easier - folks who tell me to take time and do nothing (well not exactly nothing) Not that you're not real - but not here where i can see you.

Anyway Dobro I don't reject what you say just cos of who you are, lol, but because I simply had a different opinion to express. But anyway its hard enough for you now with Chris on your case - calling you 'slack' :rofl: so I thought I better ease up anyway even if I do differ - otherwise it may have karmic consequences
 

Trojina

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Your focus is vague and so lacks precision. hahaha just kidding

.

:rofl: Phew you had me worried for a moment, thought you had been taken over.

Well relaxing can't be so bad can it :cool:
 

RindaR

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I'm wondering if doing nothing in this case might mean centering yourself - just be an observer (of yourself - thoughts, feelings, behaviors etc. since that's where you suspect the brambles are) for awhile. Then perhaps you can see them. Sometimes seeing internal "brambles" are the surest way of ridding oneself of them - they just melt.

When wrestling with some of my own once, after finally deciding to let go I had a vision/waking dream of a cloud/tangle of writhing clear guts/snakes in the sky, and as I watched them, poof! they collapsed and left the sky clear. I felt literally about 100 lbs lighter. Sorry about all the slashes and combined images, but you know how dreams can be...

Rinda
 
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martin

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If I were surrounded in my 'real' life by folks like you it would be so much easier - folks who tell me to take time and do nothing (well not exactly nothing)

Perhaps this can help a little? :)


The True Meaning of Laziness

Do you think you are a lazy person? Do you think you are not a lazy person? I think a better question is, do you know what the true meaning of laziness is? I mean, until we know what the true meaning of laziness is, we can’t really decide if we are or are not lazy people. So to reveal the true meaning of laziness let me tell you a story.

Zen Master Blumise was growing very old. He had been the head abbot of No Wind Monastery for a very long time and was ready to anoint a successor. Master Blumise decreed that the monk who he felt was least lazy, would take over as head abbot of No Wind Monastery. Everyone knew that the real competition was only between Chin and Tara. They both had immense character, were flush with noble qualities and were favorite students of Master Blumise. The competition was on.

Chin pondered hard as to how he would demonstrate his non-lazy character to Master Blumise and finally came up with a huge list of items that needed to be done around the monastery grounds. This he thought would be appripo. There was much work to be done and, in accordance with the Zen teachings of physical labor, he would show Master Blumise just how devoted to work he could be. Moreover, Chin knew that some of this work was very physical in nature and that Tara, being a lady of slight stature and build, would not be able to do it even if she decided to. Feeling confident in his plan, he set out to execute it.

Chin began rebuilding the temple roof which had begun to decay. Also, high up on the roof he knew he would be very visible to everyone in the grounds, especially Master Blumise. As he toiled in the hot sun, he noticed Tara far away sitting by the river under a shaded tree. He smiled and mentally awarded himself a point. Early the next morning, Chin sprang out of bed and headed to the monastery kitchen, which he had decided to repaint. Along the way he noticed Tara, awake, but still in bed. "That’s 2 points for me," he thought as his smile grew wider.

And so it went. Chin pounding away making the monastery the 8th wonder of the world and Tara strolling along the river, hanging out in bed, drinking tea with her friends and watching the clouds roll by. A week passed and then there was great excitement around the monastery. Master Blumise had made his decision and all had been asked to convene in the newly built Great Meditation Hall.

"My most beloved students," Master Blumise began, "First, I would like to say that we are renaming the Great Meditation Hall to Chin Meditation Hall, to show our collective appreciation to young Master Chin for rebuilding it so finely and also, for all the terrific work he has done around the monastery grounds." After the sound of one hand clapping settled down, Master Blumise continued, "Master Tara will take over as the head abbot as I am retiring and heading to Disney Land." All were pleased and applauded once more, except of course a confused Chin.

Later that day, Chin visited Master Blumise and inquired about why he had selected Tara as the least lazy student. "Dearest Chin," said Master Blumise with a soft, compassionate smile, "It was a no-brainer. In the past week she has not let a single thought, emotion or action of hers go unnoticed. She is equal to Shakyamuni Buddha himself in her awareness. I bow to her greatness." Chin understood clearly and bowed as well in admiration and respect.

So there you have it. A lazy person is one who is not aware of their thoughts, emotions and actions - that’s it. One who is aware of their thoughts as they occur, the feelings that pass through them and the actions they take, are the ones who are not lazy. So, one can be very active and still be very lazy, or one can be not active at all, but be very diligent. It is simply about being mindful and finely tuned in to the present moment.

(Copied from this site)
 

RindaR

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This life is not real? hmmm......

Rinda
 

Sparhawk

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So c'mon Luis how does one install gates and prune hedges on a soul level? Well stopping thinking for a while might help i guess..

Oh my... This is worse than I thought... :D So, you mean there's nothing you can 43 (decisive pruning) at the soul level? De-clutter your soul so your left brain can connect the dots and pick up the crumbles all the way out of the woods? By doing so you'll eventually find a "gate", an opening in the hedge, which in this context is the same as installing it. The thing is, once at the gate, would you 13.1 or would you 60.2? :mischief: :D

L

PS: I know, easier said than done. Specially when one isn't wearing your shoes... High heels? :D
 

bradford

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On the face of it the meaning of this line is quite clear isn't it - you can't make any headway, theres no use you trying to force a direction, you'd be like a ram stuck in a hedge - okay - but what are you supposed to do then, just sit back and wait, try to see things from another angle, change perspective ?

It helps to remember that the people who developed these metaphors were keen observers.
Picture the Ram's or Billy Goat's horns, particularly their curve. He is hooked in both straightforward and reverse directions. But if something were to turn his head, like a change in point of view or perspective, he could slip free.
To me this says don't be so linear in your thinking - look around you.
 

Trojina

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Thanks Brad - reminds me of the problem I often have with keys, I push em in the lock turn them and they jam, I try again still jammed. I walk away and shout, I calm down, I come back and wiggle the key gently around in the lock - the door opens. :)
 

Trojina

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So there you have it. A lazy person is one who is not aware of their thoughts, emotions and actions - that’s it. One who is aware of their thoughts as they occur, the feelings that pass through them and the actions they take, are the ones who are not lazy. So, one can be very active and still be very lazy, or one can be not active at all, but be very diligent. It is simply about being mindful and finely tuned in to the present moment.

(Copied from this site)

Good story, I have long since suspected as such :)
 

Trojina

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PS: I know, easier said than done. Specially when one isn't wearing your shoes... High heels? :D

hehe I can wear high heels as long as i don't have to stand up or walk in them :rofl: If I were wearing them it would have to be 60.2

Thanks Rinda for your comments, good dream eh !
 
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dobro p

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Dobro you're so right :rofl: . But you see the other thing we have to contend with when we do nothing is other people. They call us lazy, not pro-active enough, they want to know exactly how much effort we're making to move - its hard not to be affected by that just a little - and to wonder if they're right.

Screw 'em. Unless it's something like your job on the line, then let them go piss up a rope. You *know* you have the ability to do this, to ignore people who are a negative influence. What people think about you and say about you is *so* unimportant compared to maintaining a positive, watchful, maybe even compassionate state of mind. If you let yourself be swayed bigtime by what other people say, then you've lost your center. For instance, you say:

But anyway its hard enough for you now with Chris on your case - calling you 'slack' :rofl: so I thought I better ease up anyway even if I do differ - otherwise it may have karmic consequences

Well, on the one hand, what Chris says about me has way more to do with Chris and his felt need to stir things up than it does with me. I know for a fact that I wasn't being particularly 'slack', so when he accused me of it, I knew that it was just Chris being Chris, rather than 'dobro being slack'. I knew that. And when you know that the best thing for you to do is honor the Yi's response by abiding quietly in your situation like a child, or like a tree that goes nowhere and takes what comes, you'll also know that what people say to you along the lines of you being 'lazy' is inconsequential. Unpleasant, but inconsequential. Difficult to swallow, but ultimately inconsequential. If you manage to do what your heart is saying you ought to do despite outer pressures, you gain way more than if it was easy.
 

Trojina

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Well yet again you're right Dobro. :D
 

nicky_p

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Hi Trojan,

I can empathise with what you're you're saying about other people trying to tell you to do something even though nobody has a clue what it is that should be done, if anything. I had a similar experience last year when I decided that I wasn't going to sit my final exams for uni. People meant well, but I don't think they realised that bombarding me with options and asking me what I was going to do was like trying to get me to decide my future overnight and piled on the pressure!

Whilst of course Dobro is right :)D) sometimes it's not so easy to tell those closest to you "screw 'em"! lol Maybe telling them you're 'considering your options' will give you some breathing space from the questioning?
 

Trojina

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Yes and the trouble is even if you distance these people you still can't quieten their voices in your own head.

People closest often get in the way most - I'm in 61,4 mode at the moment.


But Nicky you didn't sit your finals !!! Have you thought of the consequences ??? What about you future ?? What do you plan to do young lady ??? Just kidding :rofl:
 

dobro p

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Whilst of course Dobro is right :)D) sometimes it's not so easy to tell those closest to you "screw 'em"! lol Maybe telling them you're 'considering your options' will give you some breathing space from the questioning?

It depends on how they're dealing with you. If you've told them that for now, you're biding your time, and they continue to pressure and/or criticize you, then you can let them know that pressure and criticism is unwelcome. Depending on the nature of the people you're working with, that might mean saying something like: "Well, I understand that you don't agree, but I've decided what I'm going to do about this, which in this case is nothing at all, because that's what seems best to me right now." Or it might be something along the lines of: "Well, I've explained myself and you're being really unsympathetic and really critical; screw you."

In other words, if they're pernicious, protect yourself from their influence. If they mean well, be more gentle with them. Why not do a toss about those people and how to handle them? If you draw Hex 36, you'll know a *lot* about what's going on.
 

nicky_p

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Hi Trojan,

I'm in the middle of re-sitting them now. Just felt that I couldn't do it last year for various reasons. But things are much better this time round :D

61.4 is interesting at a time when other people have differing opinions to you. I remember it featuring in a dream I had last year just before I decided not to go ahead with the exams. There was a pane of green opaque glass under pressure and I could see it straining until it shattered with a dull click. With the click I woke up with one thing in my mind: 61.4. Spent a while trawling dream dictionaries and looking at 61.4. I think being a team player has been quite drilled into me from other people. A lot of people expected me to sit my exams even though I didn't feel comfortable with it and I went against what everyone was telling me to do. It seems broken glass is also a symbol of abrupt changes.

Good luck with finding the direction you want to go in :)

Hi Dobro,

Looking back I don't think I asked very much about what to do about the other people who were offering advice and such. I was so focused on me. Don't know if that was such a good thing - something to bear in mind next time; if there is a next time!
 

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