Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
Any thoughts , experiences about line 37.1 ?
thanks
閑有家 can be literally translated as discipline is available at the family.
I think "Firm seclusion within the family" is a particularly poor translation of this line.
See my Matrix translation. It's about healthy boundaries that maintain some order and hold the family together. That "regrets pass" means that there is a cost to this - you lose some spontaneity, some of that organic flow, you don't spoil your children with over-permissiveness - they pull their load. Sometimes it's OK if they cry about that.
Hello Anemos,
My experience with 37.1 is about commitment and trust.
Once, I tried to join an existing group and Yi gave me this moving line as an advice. I had doubts with the group and the leader of the group was a little reluctant to open up. The meeting went all right with a clear take home message in my mind, "everything is in place (for them), if they were to take me in, will I be able to blend well with the existing people? "
Hope it helps!
Just that a family/group/clan is not homogeneous like milk, but more like a pizza. It's not the sameness but the uniqueness of each individual that contributes to the whole.
Changing to 53, a flock of geese, made up of individuals which fly together. The Fan Yao is the fledgling, which (as Bradford says) is struggling and criticized. While there's no blame, constructive critique (again pinched from Bradford's version) might save his or her life.
So be an attentive pepperoni, and contribute your own flavor.
I don't like having to squirm like that, especially to justify something as wrong as "within" is at 37.1. My first recourse, polysemy notwithstanding, is to try out other glosses that are consistent with the rest of the book, and with 有 there are good and meaningful ones to choose from.
I think "Firm seclusion within the family" is a particularly poor translation of this line.
See my Matrix translation. It's about healthy boundaries that maintain some order and hold the family together. That "regrets pass" means that there is a cost to this - you lose some spontaneity, some of that organic flow, you don't spoil your children with over-permissiveness - they pull their load. Sometimes it's OK if they cry about that.
For Your reference:
閑xian of 閑有家 (discipline within the family) depicts a wooden board 木 in the middle of a door 門; its original meaning is to build a fence in order to prevent livestock from running away; its extended meaning is to set up the measures of restraint, i.e. discipline.
The last hexagram Ming Yi (36) is a hexagram, wherein a gentleman should conceal his aspirations due to a fatuous king, line 6, ruling the country. 36.6 steps onto the sky at the beginning but later sinks into the earth because of its losing principle (of monarch and subject).
The hexagram Jia Ren (37) is formed after line 4 of Hex 33 (Dun) retreats to position 1. Line 1, the founding line and by which all the lines of Jia Ren from line 1 to 5 are in their proper places, represents the eldest son, the one who usually inherits the family's undertakings in the first place. The family discipline is well set up; the family’s aspiration can be carried on without change and the family's glory can be restored.
The line texts of Jia Ren reveal how to build the family’s glory.
Regards
Tuck :bows:
www.iching123.com
Brad, you mean Fan Yao 53.1, yes? I've quoted from it in my first post to Maria. Though criticized, there's no blame, you say. I guess it is natural for the fledgling to be criticized and critiqued, and wise for the fledgling to take heed - in most cases. But when does the no blame of the fledgling override blind obedience to follow the flock? How many great people would never have discovered their own genius, if they just followed those higher up in the pecking order?
But when does the no blame of the fledgling override blind obedience to follow the flock? How many great people would never have discovered their own genius, if they just followed those higher up in the pecking order?
I sometimes have to consider that the original treatment needs some practical updating in order to be useful to my situation.
I had too rigid a childhood, too many boundaries, and turned out rebellious enough.
I guess you find your way to the drugs you need to break free
My only problem there is with doing the updating n the translation instead of in the commentary and then thinking you're still at the core of it. If your starting point is with that big a bias or slant your next steps will be even farther off course.
Hi Tuck-
I compiled my glossary starting with my sixteen favorite dictionaries. When I added additional material, glosses found in other translations or in a thesaurus, I made a point to only use these to fill in gaps between accepted meanings, not going outside the territory already established by accepted meanings. This is my entry for 有.
I found nothing close to the meaning you assign, to be available or within.
you3 有 7533 995o 74+2 01.6 (to) be, (in) being; (there, one, it, this, they,
those) is, am, are, was, were, being, has, have, had, has/have been, will be, come(s) to be; (there is) one, someone, something; exist, remain, stay (s); become, arise, appear, grow, attain to, learn to be, turn into; (there) will, would, could, may, might, can (be); (this) will get; (if there) is, are, was, were; (were) there, one, it, they; have, (in) having; (one, that, they) has, have, had; has one’s, have their; had (one’s, their); contain, hold (onto), keep, maintain, own, retain, possess, stay; presume, assume, remember, take ... for granted; will have, (one they) (will, could, might, may) have; bring (up, about); get, achieve, acquire, attain, capture, claim, earn, find, gain, learn, take on; seize, take, took (possession of) (s, ed, ing); (to be) present, there; in possession of, possessed of, with; contained, held; abundant, rich, plentiful; (a, the) attainment, claim, possession (of); being, existence, presence; domain, dominion (in, over); what exists/is there; the, this, this one, the one in question; something; anybody, somebody, someone (’s); given this/that, this (being) given; of, about, with, for; His (especially of the sovereign), his, her, its, their; will, would ... with, to, for; -ing, -ous
It doesn’t matter whether they are in your dictionaries or not.
Regards
Tuck :bows:
I have lived with 有you3 for 60 years, use it very day and know what is its meaning.
Regards
Tuck :bows:
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).