38 and workplace saga

[philippa]

Hi all,

The recent postings on job issues make me want to share my experience.

Things between my boss and I have deteriorated somewhat over the last year and it's getting to the point that everything I do or say, she takes things the wrong way. I don't want to get into the details of who's right and who's wrong because I'm sure we've both been right and wrong at times.

This wouldn't normally be an issue -- I could've just worked quietly in the background. But the conflicts get to the point that she's blocking my progress (either by criticising excessively or wouldn't let me carry out a plan).

I asked: I don't know how to deal with this relationship, what should I do?

Answer: 38 (Agree to disagree? Try to negotiate some common direction?)

I asked again: What specific action I can take?

Answer: 33.6 changing to 31

I understand this answer but I'm also a bit miffed to receive it. I've tried hard to be tactful and humble in our interactions, why would a retreat be useful at all now?

Answer: 34.5 changing to 43

It seems that Yi is telling me that I can't fight fire with fire. But this puts me in an awkward situation because at times I feel like I've been misunderstood or bullied. Retreating seems like the wrong action. So I asked for clarification on the so-called retreating action and I got:

10.2,6 changing to 63

Line 2 is revealing. Calmly and frankly explaining my position. But line 6 is opague to me. Generally, the overall image of "treading" doesn't quite fit the "retreat" image. I suppose if I have to stretch the meaning of "resourceful retreat" (line 6 of 33) I can make it relevant to the meaning of 10.2,6.

Insights? Anyone has a similar 38-like workplace experience? What do you do to resolve a 38-like situation?

Philippa

 

[dobro p]

38 isn't conflict; it's polarized forces. The forces involved aren't out to punish or destroy each other, but each definitely has its own agenda and direction which is definitely different from the other. It generates a kind of dynamic tension which can be useful (check the individual lines - a lot of them are auspicious), but if it's harmony and communication and understanding you're wanting, then 38 isn't pleasant news. And I get the impression that you really don't want to hear that 38 applies to the situation you're enquiring about. When the Yi gave you 38, you asked other questions, double-checking the response, almost hoping for a different answer (an approach that doesn't work very well lol). Finally, you ask: what do you do to resolve a 38-like situation? Well, there are different ways to resolve it, one of which is to withdraw, and that's exactly what the Yi said. Now, whether you interpret that to mean physical withdrawal (which would mean finding a new job) or emotional and attitudinal withdrawal (finding a way to stop identifying with *your* position and *your* opinion and *your* rightness in the situation) - well, that's your call. But from what I know about how human ego operates, I'd say the first option would be easier and simpler in the situation you describe. See, the second option means changing yourself, and that's really, really, really, really, really difficult. But perhaps you don't want to hear what I'm saying anymore than you wanted to hear what the Yi was saying to your first two (and most important) questions.

 

[bruce]

Philippa, I think your understanding of your reading is quite good. Only thing I'd add is that, 33.6 is much more than a tactful technique - it is a genuine inner change of disposition, which brings about inner freedom to move, not move, speak or not speak, act or not act. Where opposition finds no opponent, it often relaxes its strong hold on their own ideas; making meeting of the minds much easier.

 

[philippa]

Hi Dobro,

Your honest comments are useful. I'm listening.

If it's a matter of finding a new job, I suppose I could. But it's my doctoral work. And I'm at the point trying to wrap up my dissertation and move on. I've come this far that I'm not about to give up.

At this point, of course I want harmony and communication and understanding. But I think I want graduation more. Ultimately, she's still the one giving me the green lights. And as you said, one thing to do is to change "my way". However, it's my research, not hers. Is it really appropriate to change my work in order to please her? (Believe me, I have tried, to no avail.) And you're right -- changing oneself is really really really ... really difficult.

Perhaps I should just give up completely?

So finally, I asked: what to do to graduate successfully?

I got 5.5 changing to 11.

Sigh. Keep hacking at it.

Philippa

 

[philippa]

Hi Bruce,

It's interesting that Dobro's idea of inner change is also echoed in your message. This reminds me of how I'm often confused whenever I receive any of the upper lines of 33. They are all about giving up or leaving behind something. It's almost like Yi is telling me that I need to stop being so... obstinate.

Your description on the freedom of movement is a revelation. I've always interpreted 33.6 as "resourceful retreat." But "fei" (or resourceful) rhymes with the Chinese word which means "to fly." Something I didn't think of before. To fly without attachments. If this means I need to place less significance on what she thinks (i.e., whether she likes the work or not), this is a truly refreshing perspective.

Philippa

 

[pakua]

Hi Dobro and Bruce,

"the second option means changing yourself, and that's really, really, really, really, really difficult"

I'm curious why you both mention inner change... W/B says something about not allowing the inferior man to see what you think of him. Couldn't the withdrawal simply be withdrawing the emotional entanglement, not really changing your position, but hiding it?

And having line 6, doesn't that indicate it should be relatively easy?

 

[dobro p]

Philippa - if it's a doctorate you're into, then physical withdrawal from the program isn't really an option. So that leaves attitudinal withdrawal - withdrawing the identifications. Which is really difficult, cuz as you pointed out, it's 'your' research. I understand a bit of what you're struggling with, cuz I was similarly at loggerheads with a prof years ago over a mini-dissertation I was doing. It got to the point where he was so sure of his suggestions that he was actually re-writing chunks of my paper in a way that he felt happy with. What a crappy teacher. In disgust, I let him have his way, but I pulled out of the course and went walkabout for a while. He was incensed, ostensibly because I'd jeopardized my chances of graduation. But I returned in time and finished it off and got my degree. One reason he was so pissed was because *his* ego was so engaged - he saw my paper as reflecting on *his* professional standing in the department. One reason I was so disgusted was because *my* ego was engaged - after all, it was *my* dissertation, right? lol Anyway, in that situation, I withdrew *temporarily*, and it worked out.

"Perhaps I should just give up completely?"

I don't think so. The doctorate's too valuable to abandon because of a bumpy road. Also, withdrawal isn't giving up. It's withdrawal.

"So finally, I asked: what to do to graduate successfully?

I got 5.5 changing to 11.

Sigh. Keep hacking at it."

Hacking at it suggests a sort of resigned perseverance in the present mode. I don't think that's what 5.5 is saying. I don't have my Yi handy, but that's the line about proceeding so that those people and things that are meant for you come to you, and those things that don't belong with you move away from you. I'm not sure how that translates in your situation, but the main theme of Hex 5 is creative waiting in an ACCEPTING attitude.

Good luck with it. It's a bugger to have to deal with an adversarial ego when that person's your boss.

 

[dobro p]

Pakua

Hi. I talked about inner change because that's what's required in order to withdraw ego attachments and identifications and projections from something you've put a lot of work into (a doctorate, in this case). It's easier to walk away from a job than to walk away from the way you are now. Both are examples of withdrawing, but the second one is virtually impossible without time, work and lots of expert help. That's my understanding anyway, based on my own experience and intelligent stuff I've read and intelligent things said by people I admire.

 

[bruce]

Philippa (and Pakua),

I believe you understood me correctly. Yes, inner freedom is the point in line 6. Line 5 deals with a ?noble retreat?. That is to say, a retreat in order to do the right thing. But line 6 deals inner detachment.

Wilhelm: Inner detachment has become an established fact, and we're at liberty to depart. When one sees the way ahead thus clearly, free of all doubt, a cheerful mood sets in, and one chooses what's right without further thought.

Bradford: The point is not freedom from, but to. Detachment is from aversion and craving, not from living life. Opportunities also lie in retreat.

LiSe: Only in retreat the spirit can find its inner riches. Places full of noise and people are never spiritually rich places, but even there one can stay rich if one can stay aloof inside.

 

[jesed]

Hi Philipa

Just in case the comment could be useful

38 as a recomendation of action: solve the oposition; don't increase it; don't fight, but clarify the misundertandings.

33 in a context of oposition implies emotional retreatment; take a step back (emotionally) from the problem, to see it with more clarity. Reduce emotional attachment to act better.

This emotional retreatment (33.6) is useful to solve the oposition (38) because if one refuse to use the force and stubborness, things get easy and the road is open (34.5)

Clarification about the retreatment. Emotional retreatment in a context of oposition means the need to be careful about how you walk and deal with someone more powerful than you (10.2.6)

Best wishes

 

[bruce]

Oops, made an error. Line 5 is "friendly retreat" not noble retreat. Where did I get noble retreat from??

 

[hitchhiker]

Hi Philippa,

Just wanted to write and say I sympathise. I'm also wrapping up my PhD dissertation and caught in a bad work situation.

I don't have enough experience to advise you on the Yijing, but sometimes when I'm stumped by the W/B or Legge translations, I find LiSe's quite useful. Here's the site if you don't already have it: http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/yi_index.html

What it says for 38, Looking Askance, seems to describe your situation better.

Anyway, best of luck,
hh

 

[bruce]

Ah, from 24.5 - noble hearted return. hmm, retreat and return? I think it's sorta like that.

 

[philippa]

Hi all,

Thank you for being so sympathetic to my situation. I am going to have a meeting with her today. I am somewhat fearful but I am also hoping I can (begin to) smooth out some of the misunderstandings at the very least.

Thank you!

Philippa

 

[ewald]

Actually 10 changing to 63 has changing lines 2, 3, 4 and 6.

 

[pakua]

Thanks Dobro, I think I see where you're coming from....

 

[philippa]

Thanks Ewald for pointing out my error. I actually got 9, not 10, with changing lines 2 and 6. My goodness. That changes the picture quite a bit...

 

[philippa]

Hi Bruce,

Btw, to respond to your comments on 24.5, it's interesting that you mixed it up with 33.5. To me, there is one major difference. 24 is "return", i.e., someone has strayed (an error?) and is returning to the proper path; whereas there is just one path, instead of two (one "wrong" and one "correct"), as indicated in 33. To a certain extent, I'm glad that Yi didn't give me a 24 because it would've been like Yi telling me that I have been barking up the wrong tree. That wouldn't be too nice a message to hear, especially for someone who desparately wants to graduate.

Philippa

 

[bruce]

Hi Philippa,

As I understand it, 24 refers to natural cycles as well as the constructed cycles I think you are referring to. The seventh day or phase brings return, 24 hours brings return, etc.

Also as I understand it, 33 is retreat "from" something, and as Brad's line 6 says, it also retreats "to" something.

The 'blame game' is, I think, more often misguiding than the "way game" intends.

 

[micheline]

HI philippa,
I am confused as to how 33.5 came into the mix at all....wasnt it 33.6?
For a 38 kind of situation with a boss or workplace, 33.6 is a great piece of advice. It is the "fat and happy" line of retiring, and there IS a kind of nobility to it...it is the last line of the hexagram and it indicates a good ending

You said:
" If this means I need to place less significance on what she thinks (i.e., whether she likes the work or not), this is a truly refreshing perspective."
and I feel that is the meaning of 33.6 for you.

I would understand this to say that ultimately, the boss has no real bearing on your journey. You will leave with everything you need in the end, ie the doctorate, and for that reason you should probably be as uninvolved as possible with this difficult personality for the time being.
5.5 and 34.5 also bear this out.

So, I would feel that, even though it seems this person is perhaps sabotaging you or blocking your progress, it is just a question of polarized viewpoints. 38 doesnt usually mean any real harm.

I had a 38 type of supervisor at one time who really did try to sabotage me, and I was quite upset by her. In my case, direct confrontation would have only made it worse and I knew this. The yi also affirmed that. Sometimes you have to "eat crow" and flatter unworthy people, but ultimately, if you got the goods (your own worth, dignity and merit) such people cannot harm you.

JMHO. wish you the best!

 

[bruce]

Micheline, 33.5 was my hairball. *cough cough*

 

[philippa]

Hi all,

It seems a very odd time to give an update on this. But I came back after a month and re-read all the comments here and felt that I under-estimated the significance of 38 and 33.6 (and even 34.5).

This week, I again find myself in a situation where I feel very overwhelmed and devastated. The worst part of it is that I feel like I've lost every bit of my momentum, or whatever's left of it.

Honestly, I find myself retreating but not retreating in a way suggested here or in 33.6. And I'm not entirely sure how I go about achieving 33.6. Confused and upset, I asked, what did I do wrong?

I got: 52.2,4 changing to 50.

This is clearly reflecting on my way of "retreating." I am taking a few days off and see how I feel. I just want to say thank you all for the interaction here and the comments offered have been useful for me in sorting out my issues.

Philippa

 

[dobro p]

Well, keep in mind that it's four weeks later on as well. Situations change. You have to keep up to date.