39.3 > 8 about a relationship on hold

[cirka09]

How would you interpret 39.3 > 8 when asking what someones true intentions toward you are? That is the answer I can read it as generally saying that there is an obstruction to union, but how does line 3 play in? She feels that by going on with me it would lead to misfortune or that by doing what she is doing now and remaining just friends would lead to misfortune and we should instead try again?

So for clarification I asked What must be done to overcome this obstruction to union?
59.1 > 61

59.1 is about taking some action now and not waiting, but to dissolve the mutual misunderstandings and mistrust.... Now if I could only find the right words...

 

[lloyd]

asking what someones true intentions toward you are?

From where this idea that I Ching is a tool to read the minds of others
You could have asked something like: Am I doing well with x? In this case you get your answer in the form of possible changing lines. Whatever you may want to know about X may be reflected in (deduced from) these answers about YOU. And X may also appear in those lines that the changing lines relate to.

(to be continued in Exploring Divination?)

 

[cirka09]

Ah. So then it might just be refrenceing me and my intentions. I see.

 

[lloyd]

meng wrote something nice recently:
I think we can take Yi's answers more personally (too personal?) than they are meant to be taken. Sometimes it's the energy of the day, or relation to that day, or it could be our environment that day. It isn't always something personal. It complicates things when we take those answers personally, because we can unknowingly build a complex with conditions around that weren't intended to be there. A lot of self incrimination, with little return on investment. I think we all do it to some extent.

How does "The Sage" dialogue that? Which of 64+ answers would be the truth of the matter? Would someone who is feeling incriminated interpret the answer as "The Sage" intended? I think probably not. So, what does he then do with that answer? Incriminates himself further. And the complex grows. Now there is need for someone to come and pull him out from under that complex pile of nonsense. But which of The Sages answers would be heard as intended?

Check also link Q below, enjoy

 

[cirka09]

How's this. "What must I do to continue to make progress with M?"
48.1.4.5 > 34

I found a thread where dobro had commented on a reading with the same moving lines reguarding a relationship. The advice she gave sounds right in my situation as well. That there are 2 things going on. One is 48.1 an old well where the wildlife doesn't drink the muddy water. So the advice is to leave this well and not reach for the water, i.e not reach for what I want, which is a relationship with her. The second aspect of the situation are lines 4 and 5. Something is being done, whether consciously or unconsciously to repair this well. Somewhere, somehow, something is repairing things so that the water will be clear and can be reached again. In line 5.
So, I guess what it's saying, like in the other persons situation, is to wait. Leave the old muddy well, the gloomy valley I find myself in; where I want something that at this time is unattainable. Not necessarily leave her, but just leave the desire. Work on myself. Then, when things get better I will find what I'm looking for whether it's with or without her. Does that make sense?

Thank you lloyd for your comments and guidance and thank you dobro for helping me understand the situation through osmosis lol.

 

[lloyd]

Hi circa09
Your question gets close to being simple.
I will take some time to look at the following:

48.1 a well in disuse, with muddy water. So the advice is to not “drink” what I want, which is a relationship with her.
Second are lines 4 and 5. Something is being done, whether consciously or unconsciously to so that the water will be clear and can be reached again (in line 5).
So, I guess it means: to wait. Leave the old muddy well alone as something unattainable. Not necessarily leave her, but just leave the desire. Work on myself. Then, when things get better I will find what I'm looking for whether it's with or without her. Does that make sense?

Meanwhile, over the last 4000 years a few million people may have received 48.1.4.5 and none of them was remotely like you and/or dobro

 

[lloyd]

PS

Meanwhile, also, you study this and this, okay?

I attached a funny cartoon about "refrenceing intentions"

 

[lloyd]

"What must I do to continue to make progress with M?"
Okay, not bad, though still complex. Anyway, may well read as:
Does my current attitude lead to closeness with M?

You got 48.1.4.5 - 34
The three lines stand for three stages of movement in the relationship (past - present - suggested future action), which may at the same time very well be phases in your development.
However, I always like to start with the sequence, then go to the judgment, images and lines:
Sequence: Getting through an impasse (47) you end up socializing with others (48) (up to you how you explain this).

Judgement/images: The Well means socializing while sharing the richest free nourishment the earth has on offer (love, in your case). The right person (Image) fits in with the “common people” so as to help each other.

Line 1 (of 3 lines) stands alone after getting through an impasse. Latent knowledge (on love) has been muddied by disuse and to let this go on bodes badly.
Line 4 still stands alone, but has found an un-muddied place (Clarity?) in which to think things over.
Line 5 gets the clarity as a result of thinking things over.
The transformed hexagram 34 (Images) suggests working with the common forms of decorum (in love).

What I feel is that you have to think at a stage from before M came into the picture. Something in your own (loving) attitude may need no more than a small overhaul. Check it out.
Ask questions about whether you are made of the material love is made of. Do it slowly, keep questions simple and keep in mind what Hilary and Steve explained in their pages. Stay

 

[cirka09]

I need to think on this. I also wrote down a whooooole lot of info based on the links you provided me. Thank you for your help and I'll let ya know what I come up with. I can tell you right now that one of the things which needs an over-haul in my loving attitude is impatience. I really, REALLY, need to learn to be patient.

 

[lloyd]

Maybe that is why I Ching found you ..

 

[cirka09]

Had a question. When looking at the nuclear, complementary, contrasting hex;s etc. is it important to look at the moving lines from the main hex in these other hex's also? Or just the image and judgment?

 

[lloyd]

For the nuclear hexagram, yes, the changing lines carry over. I hardly ever use these layers but if you do, realize that they rest on a solid understanding of the basic texts that you have received. Usually, if your question is crisp and un-trembling, the answer will have in it many details, through related lines etc. Relax, even studying the basics will satisfy impatience. Got a good copy of I Ching?

 

[cirka09]

Yeah I have a copy of The I Ching or Book of Changes by Wilhelm/Baynes. I also have The Tao of the I Ching by Jou, Tsung Hwa. They're both really dense reading so I have a rough time understanding them. Baby steps I suppose lol.

 

[lloyd]

Should do. Watch out for its heavy archaic language, dealing with the ruling of countries; lawsuits, punishments, the Noble Man and whatever there may be. Valid enough, all of them, but take the words as metaphors that may just suggest small changes in perception. Part 3 is insightful.
I read that soon there will be a paperback edition by Balkin that is highly recommended for beginners.

 

[cirka09]

I'm getting ahead of myself here, but I asked if I am made of the material love is made of and got 49.1.2 > 28. I know 49 is about the need for change and I'm not ready to dive into this reading yet as I'm still going over the previous one. I'm hoping to get some insight through this reading as to what the nature of the change I need to make is. I know it's internal. That's also suggested my the moving lines being in the inner trigram. The context of the first line is found in Hex. 31 - I guess the idea being keeping still within while experiencing joy without. It's also about courtship so I'm eager to figure out how line one of 49 plays into this. Line 2's context is in 43 - breakthrough. I'm guessing this is the change itself and the moment I make it happen. Now I'm going back to the first reading of The Well.... So much information.... my head hurts... lol

 

[lucia]

Hiya

everyone is "made of the mateial love is made of" it is just that to varying degrees many have intenal impediments to deal with en route. Doesn't mean they can't find love.

May I recommend that you read the excellent material on forming questions that Hilary has put on this site - she also offers some good q's to try out including on relationships. There are no "rules" as such but clarity helps when forming the question but ask what you want - just make it clear and then it is usually easier to understand the answer.

Lucia

 

[cirka09]

Just thought I'd throw this out there because it made me laugh. I'm still going over the reading regarding hex 48. I know it's pointing to a change I need to make. I asked what the nature of this cange is that leads to union with M and got 17.2 > 58. Ok great. So when I was reading on 17.2 I thought it might be pointing to a decision needing to be made as you can't have an association with both good and bad people, so I asked how it would affect my relationship with M if I told her I either wanted to build a better, stronger relationship or go our separate ways. I got 26.1.4 > 50. lol. aaand, back to the drawing board... I'm determined to figure this out. Baby steps man, baby steps.

 

[lloyd]

Luicia: everyone is "made of the material love is made of" it is just that to varying degrees many have internal impediments to deal with en route. Doesn't mean they can't find love.
Hi Lucia. The suggested question is meant to cover those “varying degrees” you mention and they do not just exist internal. If Jane Austen would suddenly step into a modern discotheque, her notions of love and courtship might not be extremely helpful; we relate to our own times and cultures.

Cirka09: I am made of the material love is made of - 49.1.2 > 28

Hi cirka09
Yes, you are getting ahead of yourself. If I were you, I would not as yet fully trust my own readings. Relax, take things with a grain of salt and be aware that incomplete perception of the answers may as yet be a hindrance to solving problems.

You have taken my suggestion very literal, there where we have the love "substances” of: your own ideals and aspirations (Love principles), of cultural bounds (love realities) and the substance of particular persons (Peter of Mary). I will limit myself here to 49 etc. in a general way and you can see for yourself if/how it suits you.

Once you have exchanged ideas with people among the well (48) you may consider/need some change of heart/mind (49 revolution). The all over Judgment of the hexagram is that change comes in its own time and you have to experience it in order to believe it; and act accordingly. To do this you get “rid of the old”. The Images tell us that in such times it bodes well to set calendars in order and clarify the seasons; in the land of love. Consider your age and disposition and read good books about love seasons and whatnot.
We see in line 1 that (though inspired by new ideas) you are not yet ready for Radical change. You may have to refresh/update your general outlook on love a bit; be open about things with others.
Line 2 emphasizes that you should communicate your intimate feelings with good friends and read good books about what it means to be a lover today (lyrics of music; modern Odes). Trust other people sometimes to know better than you what is good for you. You have the intelligence and flexibility of mind needed for this approach. Stop being docile, as also suggested in line 1.
After gathering what there is to learn, and setting your calendar and facts in order, 28 encourages you to stand alone without fear and, if need be, take evenings off.

I have no idea how this might apply to your very general question.
Only you can know ...
Just don't jump to quick conclusions and feverishly flip coins, okay? Relax

 

[lucia]

Lloyd

Luicia: everyone is "made of the material love is made of" it is just that to varying degrees many have internal impediments to deal with en route. Doesn't mean they can't find love.
Hi Lucia. The suggested question is meant to cover those “varying degrees” you mention and they do not just exist internal. If Jane Austen would suddenly step into a modern discotheque, her notions of love and courtship might not be extremely helpful; we relate to our own times and cultures.

what's that supposed to mean??

Why question it and what's Jane austin got to do with it? Because you are clearly way off from what I was thinking. I only commented because I wanted the querent to know that they don't need to be so negative about themselves and, more importantly, there are other views about forming questions and I offered as an example Hilary''s suggestions on forming them that are on this site -?

Amazing how many people use this site and don't actually explore most of it.

Lucia

 

[lloyd]

I wrote: Ask questions about whether you are made of the material love is made of.
You say that we all have the material but have various "internal impediments".
I answer: Fine, then check the internal impediments (it kind of comes down to the same intention).
I add to this that impediments do not only arise "internal", but that we live in a changing society that has its own "external" influences; so to step into love today with old social values (Austen) can also be an impediment.
All this may not be what you are thinking about, but that does not mean that it is negative. In the end it is only cirka09 who knows whether the approach is furthering or not.
Hilary's explanations are fine, but we are not starting from scratch. My suggestions are made in the realm and context of 18 posts.

 

[cirka09]

Last post for me on this, I think. I don't know where things are headed. I'm being patient, not getting aggitated or stressed out. Just trying to take it easy. The thing is, right now, she and an ex are trying to work things out. It's a very long distance relationship. I have no intention of trying to cause problems or force her hand. Today I asked "what can I expect if I continue to communicate with M?" The answer was 15.6 > 52. I really liked LiSe's commentary on this line, but I don't know how it applies to my situation. I know it's the holidays and people have better things to do than bother with interpreting other people's readings, but any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Happy Holidays

 

[cirka09]

I guess what's really confusing is why this looks so favorable?!?!

Maybe I do understand it. I can expect the modesty of my spirit to shine through. Don't let my thoughts go beyond my current situation. Act when it's time to act and stay still when it's time to stay still.

 

[lloyd]

Hi circa
Good that you are trying to take things easy, because ex-es “working out” may take ages. I hesitated somewhat to answer you, because you did not write whether you found my last explanation useful or not.

You asked "what can I expect if I continue to communicate with M?".
Aiming to do with what you are already doing, the question basically asks: Will dating M bear fruit?
The answer was 15.6 > 52.
Much of which reads simple and what I see will not be new to you.
15 is about taking oneself lightly while not being short of qualities. The right person in such a situation levels things, or distributes them evenly.
6 is modesty (last line of trigram earth) that might move armies, but is best used for self refinement. Having some sort of reputation is not enough …
52 is restraint, in short: to not overstep your own position.

My guess is that we are back with the 49.1.2 > 28 reading. Whatever the answer is to that one, it is worth to work on it and find the next logical questions. Together with the above it kind of asks for a key-question to be found; though maybe not in one go.

 

[cirka09]

I'm sorry. I have found your answers very helpful. It's just that working through these readings is difficult because I'm trying to apply the metaphors to my situation. Thanks you again. I'll go back to 49.1.2 > 28 and re-read it. Hopefully I can figure this out.

 

[lloyd]

Okay, keep Clarity in mind for when things overflow ...

 

[cirka09]

Your interpretation of 49.1.2 is right. I do need a change of heart/mind. My problem in the past, and it still impacts me today, though not as much, is that I try to rush things. I try to take them a step ahead of where they are and in doing so I cause myself alot of unnecessary stress and anxiety. this, in turn, causes me to make huge blunders that jeopardize something that could possibly have alot of potential. I was using yarrow stalks today as, once again, you were right about me feverishly flipping coins lol, using yarrow stalks forces me to slow down. I asked how I need to change in order to attract my soulmate and got 29.2.5 > 2. It kinda hit me in the head when I read the lines. Basically "take things a step at a time and don't be overly ambitious". Is that accurate? Here's another example of me trying to be overly ambitious. I recently ran into a old friend (ex) that I haven't talked to in a looooong time. My mind said, "hey, I think I'd like to talk to her again." So I asked this evening "How can I improve communication with her" This time I got 33.4.5.6 > 15. Again, another skull cracker lol. Now my normal inclination would be to talk to her anyway, but... if I'm ever going to change, and in light of that reading, I don't think I'm going to. Or if I do, it won't be to pursue her. As for M? That's a horse of a different color and I'm not sure what I'm gonna do yet. I haven't made the same mistakes with her that I have in the past with others. It's been really really hard not to, but I haven't.

 

[lloyd]

Your interpretation of 49.1.2 is right, I do need a change of heart/mind. I try to rush things. I try to take them a step ahead of where they are. Using yarrow stalks forces me to slow down.
I asked how I need to change in order to attract my soul-mate.
Got 29.2.5 > 2: "take things a step at a time and don't be overly ambitious".
Is that accurate? Here's another example ….

Okay, 100 % accurate or not, things seem to add up …
Much as I value I Ching, for investigation, I’d go for a good astrologer; take a year to find one who can explain to me my 5th house and the venus/mars positions. For a start in this I can recommend café astrology.
Apart from that I’d go for informative books (poetry, music) and personally found the ones mentioned below very helpful

 

[cirka09]

Ya know, I might do that. It's funny you should mention the 5th house. My family, mainly my mothers side, has a peculiar relationship with the number 5. Things happen in her family in multiples of 5 all the time. Births, deaths, good things, bad things, it's always a multiple of 5. My birthday is a multiple of 5, her birthday is. Everyone in her immediate family.

 

[lloyd]

Fine, you might find in the 5th house what you are looking for, if not in the planets.
Still, you may add I Ching to astrology, to numerology, Tarod, Jungian perspectives and/or Sufi approaches and not get any the wiser. Do not let things overflow (hex 15). Like ... a box full of tool is nice, but work starts by using one (maybe 2) that is sharp