40.2.4>2 an Aha! Moment 22.6 > 36

[mariah kaze]

I can't find that thread anymore, sorry.

S'cuse me for just barging in with a question and a request but I'd like some feedback on this, please . I think this is the right place to get it.

Something I hadn't thought ever before to ask the Yi. Dunno why I never thought to ask but I think the answer is not only quite relevant, but quite helpful to my self-study. I've been directed to get help. So, here I am. Thanks in advance.

I do a daily reading "what do I need to know today?" Then I do a series of followups until I'm "done". Sometimes one but sometimes many questions later, I've done the lesson for the day.

Today, I was led to ask:
What is the danger in my use of the Yi?

The answer: 40.2,4 > 2

From the Archives: September 16th, 2012, 07:44 PM ginnie Senior Member
answering squirrele's query>

Domineering/Control Issue 40.2.4>2
40.2.4
Second line moving indicates that you are in the process of working this through, in terms of understanding it.

Fourth line moving is a line that gives diviners trouble, as its meaning is not clear. Hilary in her new I Ching suggests that you "let go your requirements for how things (especially relationships) must be." "When you release your thumbs, you release your grip." The suggestion is that you are focused too intently on how parent/child relationships "ought" to be. That would be one interpretation of your reading.
September 16th, 2012, 07:44 PM ginnie Senior Member

Focused too intently on how relationships ought to be. Dominance and control issues.


Lastly I asked: How does one rectify this ? 22.6 > 36

I always read this line as “pray to Heaven”. So I have come to ask you all if you will pray with and for me.

Again, thank you in advance.

Chris Christian :bows:

 

[pocossin]

I've been directed to get help.

I didn't think anyone could direct you

What is the danger in my use of the Yi?
40.2.4 > 2

The difference between medicine and poison is dosage. 40 is sometimes understood as shooting an arrow, and arrows that miss the target fall to earth. I think the danger is that you will miss your target by too much shooting.

 

[mariah kaze]

I didn't think anyone could direct you

Alas, it is without doubt, difficult - but, possible - to do
The Yi frequently directs me, actually. Anybody else usually needs a chair and a whip


What is the danger in my use of the Yi?
40.2.4 > 2

The difference between medicine and poison is dosage. 40 is sometimes understood as shooting an arrow, and arrows that miss the target fall to earth. I think the danger is that you will miss your target by too much shooting.

Yes. Interesting and apt, Tom as always. 40 to me means, do some problem solving - find a solution. but I agree, too much shooting - asking too many similar questions about the same thing - but, I think even further that the reading points out that I'd like to control the outcome - sometimes -and that Yi is warning me not to try to use IT to dominate/dictate the outcome that I want - or am hoping for. That might be dangerous for me to do - and definitely could miss the target - too ambitious for my level of understanding. I know Hilary talks about it. I've signed up again for her course. The resultant 2 told me to have patience in seeking knowledge.

Hex 4 - Learn! is the one I drew after 40, and is one I get when I'm going about something right, in the wrong way - joker blithely walking backwards off the cliff - stop - get help! Thanks for yours.

Sometimes I scare myself with the Yi - give myself shivers - and that just generally means I've finally understood something (for a moment) - I have issues with people over dominance/control to work on - but it helps to ask for validation. Nothing original in that

Chris Christian

 

[meng]

The big toe is an important appendage for balance and stability, and it does physically lead the way toward whatever Flatland direction our mind directs it. It is our mind which directs it, not our big toe (figuratively our more primal instincts) which directs our mind. It would be like getting into my truck and following the direction of the tires. Anyone care to take a ride with me? Oh, not until my mind knows where we're going? Don't you trust my tires? Not anymore, huh?

22.6, on the other hand (or foot), isn't a direction but the absence of color or embellishments, bias or opinions (this also mates well with your h4). The image of pure light being shrouded in darkness (of 36) provides and interesting and attractive personality profile.

 

[peterg]

40: loosen, set free.Ideograph: hands and horns.
For untieing knots, the thumbs are not as useful as a horned instrument.
Perhaps the suggestion is that there are better ways to go about things.
Let something go to make room for something better ? ( 40.4 )
At first you go astray but later find your bearings ? ( 2.0 )

 

[mariah kaze]

The big toe is an important appendage for balance and stability, and it does physically lead the way toward whatever Flatland direction our mind directs it. It is our mind which directs it, not our big toe (figuratively our more primal instincts) which directs our mind. It would be like getting into my truck and following the direction of the tires. Anyone care to take a ride with me? Oh, not until my mind knows where we're going? Don't you trust my tires? Not anymore, huh?

22.6, on the other hand (or foot), isn't a direction but the absence of color or embellishments, bias or opinions (this also mates well with your h4). The image of pure light being shrouded in darkness (of 36) provides and interesting and attractive personality profile.

Hello Meng
Our primal instincts do direct the mind, yes I agree to an extent. I think we can over-ride our instincts too but I'm not sure we should at all times. Our instincts have survived because we apparently need them.

Attempting to use logic; I think that things can be over-thought - or maybe mis-worded or even conveyed in the "wrong tone" would be closer. All stumbling blocks for toes? All ways that one can be misunderstood. 40 may be pointing that out to me, yes.

I like what you say about 22.6. Thank you.

MK

 

[mariah kaze]

40: loosen, set free.Ideograph: hands and horns.
For untieing knots, the thumbs are not as useful as a horned instrument.
Perhaps the suggestion is that there are better ways to go about things.
Let something go to make room for something better ? ( 40.4 )
At first you go astray but later find your bearings ? ( 2.0 )

Loosen - set free - Deliverance. Had't thought of untying knots - I like that.

Better ways to go about things: yes, I get it. I often get credit for doing the right thing in a totally different way (meaning the wrong) way. It is the way my mind works ... I'm often told I don't listen. I do. I think the problem is that I do not always respond appropriately. Big toe.

You may find it interesting that just a few moments ago I once again ask the Yi, "What do I need to know now?" The response: 40.2,4>2 again. Not done.

So, I came back and looked at this thread with two new replies. Thank you.

Am not quite sure whether I was simply being directed back here for your comments or if there's more for me to understand about Hex 40.

I'm thinking 40 could also be saying let go of expectations placed on other people? Hex 2 says "patience" and sometimes I'm a bit short on that .

Something I do unconsciously is treat everyone as if they are as smart as I am - I just assume that everyone understands me and sometimes I realize that this person in front of me has no idea what I'm saying - I've gone over their head. Especially with young people, sometimes it's awkward. Seems I'm out of touch and I'm not very good with people anymore. I expect people to work <horrors!> and nobody thinks that's fun anymore

Chris

 

[meng]

Hello Meng
Our primal instincts do direct the mind, yes I agree to an extent. I think we can over-ride our instincts too but I'm not sure we should at all times. Our instincts have survived because we apparently need them.

Hi MK,

I actually said just the opposite: "The big toe is an important appendage for balance and stability, and it does physically lead the way toward whatever Flatland direction our mind directs it. It is our mind which directs it, not our big toe (figuratively our more primal instincts) which directs our mind."

I think this is generally the idea within 40 line 4. The sensible mind being the friend one you can trust, once delivered or released from the impetuous instinct or impulse.

 

[mariah kaze]

Hi MK,

I actually said just the opposite: "The big toe is an important appendage for balance and stability, and it does physically lead the way toward whatever Flatland direction our mind directs it. It is our mind which directs it, not our big toe (figuratively our more primal instincts) which directs our mind."

I think this is generally the idea within 40 line 4. The sensible mind being the friend one you can trust, once delivered or released from the impetuous instinct or impulse.

I know you said the opposite. It happens to me all the time. I am agreeing in part with you but not completely and I didn't express myself well. My apologies.

T. Cleary: "Releasing your big toe, when the companion comes, then trust." I would agree that this is about curbing impulsiveness - that we're talking about me being impulsive and this line cautions against acting on impulse - it could be dangerous. We do understand the meaning of the line that far, yes?

I would then argue that being impulsive has nothing to do with primal instinct directing our minds. Primal instinct is there for our basic survival. Impulsiveness is often counter to our survival instincts. I don't think the Yi ever cautions us to ignore our good instincts, which is what I *thought* you said. my misunderstanding.

I think it's fairly easy to include intuition in our primal instinct category and the point I was making (and on which you re-directed me) is that instinct is something I listen to, and intuition is something that operates for me without effort but it brings me back to my poorly worded reason for seeking your help.

How could using the I Ching be dangerous for me (or for anyone for that matter)?

Hex forty means "freeing" and it talks about liberation from danger so I'm thinking my answer meant in part that I should free myself from the negative energy that causes fear of the Yi being dangerous at all, maybe?

Cleary talks of acting from a "free mind" - spontaneous liberation - coming from nature when the timing is right. In line two he talks about not indulging (fear is self-indulgence), not injuring the positive energy. Then, in line 4 he goes on to talk about how we injure ourselves by being adamant but incorrect in mixing the human mind with the mind of Tao. The danger being that we will remain muddled and mired in disillusionment and the sensible mind will not emerge from the internal chaos. We have lost the Tao. So, maybe I've gotten a bit closer to what puzzles me about this answer to my question.

The term "danger" is at the bottom of my confusion, I think. The Yi talks of danger but it doesn't define it well. How dangerous is "danger"? To over-react seems like an indulgence but not to react is "arriving late" and missing an opportunity to be liberated - or operating from the "free mind". An open mind.

One of the things I'm basically trying to improve in my life by using the Yi is to find a way to comfort myself when I'm feeling disconnected from others by misunderstanding and conflict. Not to succumb to indulging in fear may be the whole message.

Thank you for your thoughts Meng. I have had to go a little deeper :bows:


Chris

 

[meng]

I would then argue that being impulsive has nothing to do with primal instinct directing our minds.

As would I. But this is a thread where you were expressing an Aha experience, not asking for interpretations, so it is I who apologize.

There is a specific section for these Aha! kind of reading experiences, just so you're aware, because sometimes we're not diving for answers but surfacing to share an experience with others.

 

[mariah kaze]

As would I. But this is a thread where you were expressing an Aha experience, not asking for interpretations, so it is I who apologize.

There is a specific section for these Aha! kind of reading experiences, just so you're aware, because sometimes we're not diving for answers but surfacing to share an experience with others.

Am I in the wrong line again? !

I did look for that thread and yes, I wanted to share rather get an interpretation but I understand that it is sometimes difficult to discuss one without delving into the other. And sometimes, even I don't know what I intend. I was just kind of reaching out.

If I'm in the wrong forum, I apologize too.

Thanks for being so polite, Meng.

Chris

 

[meng]

Ha! I've been asking myself on and off for the last decade if I am on the right or wrong forum. But here I am, still; mainly encouraged to stay by the Yi, for some odd reason.

Very difficult to convey accurately using only the typed word.

Maybe we can pick up this instinct/human mind topic some other time. It's been the focus of lots of my attention lately, since I've become a more avid desert bird watcher, observing the social and survival behaviors of various desert species. My current views are not absolutely either/or on the comparison of instinct vs rational mind, so your thoughts are welcomed on the subject.

Even the word "mind" can be thought of (haha pardon the pun) in several different ways. Are we talking about the Hindu/Buddhist monkey mind, the pragmatic analytical mind, the presently conscious of itself mind, the sub-surface mind, the collective unconscious mind, or various implications of ego and/or anthropomorphic projection?

 

[mariah kaze]

Ha! I've been asking myself on and off for the last decade if I am on the right or wrong forum. But here I am, still; mainly encouraged to stay by the Yi, for some odd reason.

Very difficult to convey accurately using only the typed word.

Maybe we can pick up this instinct/human mind topic some other time. It's been the focus of lots of my attention lately, since I've become a more avid desert bird watcher, observing the social and survival behaviors of various desert species. My current views are not absolutely either/or on the comparison of instinct vs rational mind, so your thoughts are welcomed on the subject.

Even the word "mind" can be thought of (haha pardon the pun) in several different ways. Are we talking about the Hindu/Buddhist monkey mind, the pragmatic analytical mind, the presently conscious of itself mind, the sub-surface mind, the collective unconscious mind, or various implications of ego and/or anthropomorphic projection?

You are here because you are encouraged by the Yi? That sums it up for me too. I feel strongly that I was directed to come back here to learn, even though I haven't made myself particularly welcome and it's challenging for me.

As a student of Psychology, I am forever interested in all aspects of the Mind however for Buddhist and Taoist studies I prefer to keep things very simple. I am not even a lay practitioner so I tend to stick with Suzuki and attempt to keep to the Beginner's Mind but I have to admit that I have a pragmatic bent and "want to" analyze it all.

I would be happy to talk with you any time Meng. Gassho :bows:

Chris