...life can be translucent

Menu

43.3.5. to 54. Taoist studies. Please help.

Samgirl

visitor
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
239
Reaction score
5
Hello!

I am trying to understand what the Yi is telling me in this reading... I am following sessions of Taoist massage where I am learning a lot, however, I was feeling that I still need to do something in order to get the most of it. Thus, my question was: "what do I need to do in order to get the most of my sessions? The response was 43.3.5. to 54.

For what I understand, the Yi is telling me that (42.3) I need to be myself and find my uniqueness, regardless what others might think. And 43.5 tells me that -even when I see old habits coming back, I should keep my course. Now... the change to 54, I don't understand it.

Could you please give me a hand with this?

Thank you,
Samgirl
 

zander

visitor
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
33
Reaction score
2
...however, I was feeling that I still need to do something in order to get the most of it. Thus, my question was: "what do I need to do in order to get the most of my sessions? The response was 43.3.5. to 54.
...And 43.5 tells me that -even when I see old habits coming back, I should keep my course. Now... the change to 54, I don't understand it.
I think what 43-3&5 are about knowing your course, being sure to follow(3) and yet not being preoccupied with failure(5). You said:
when i see old habits coming back i should keep my course.
I think the Yi is saying that to make mistakes or revert to old ways and the avoidance of them is not paramount at this time. Allow for some leeway.
54, i guess, make yourself as comfortable on the Tao highway as best as you can. Even if you make a mistake, keep moving forward, seldom does the Tao go retrograde, me thinks anyway:)
 

gene

visitor
Joined
May 3, 1971
Messages
2,140
Reaction score
40
Zander

I get the impression firstly, that expecting more than you are receiving may feel confrontational to your teacher, if that is indeed what is happening. (Of course, a teacher can be on the nonphysical level as well. It may even be yourself) The W/B commentary also mentions something about being misjudged. The fifth line carries on the same thing, as that of a struggle, and seeing that struggle as hopeless.

hexagram 54 tells us that we may have to accept an inferior position for the time being. It is only through the process of time that we can find that which is really meant for us. In hexagram 54, the inferior person slowly rises to prominence as his/her understanding increases and consciousness raises.

Good luck with it.

Gene
 

Samgirl

visitor
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
239
Reaction score
5
Thank you and more details of my findings + encouragment

Thank you so much for your response. I can see more clear now... I have been reading several translations and I got different views from it.

I do see that while doing my taoist studies with the massages, I am walking sometimes on a "thin rope" where it is easy to fall and get taken by my "inferior man". I am actually battling and struggling with my fears and judgment (or misjudgment) all the time. And yes, I feel insecure along the path because of concerns in regards of my position (54)- I see the relating hexagram as "ground feeling in which the whole reading swims" (from Karcher).

Here's my analysis (long... I know). :blush:

I took Alfred Wang translation lastly to complement the first readings:

This gua expounds the principle of eliminating evil. There are five solid lines and one yielding line. The five solid lines represent the just; they combine their influence and strength to eliminate the dark forces. Thus, the solid line at the fifth place stands for theleader of the just (the host of the gua), and the yielding line at the top represents the dark force. Five solid lines unite as one to eliminate the evil, but the text still warns that evil forces are sinister and treacherous and their schemes and intrigues should not be overlooked. To eliminate the evil, their evil nature should be exposed in order to gain support from the public. It is better to rely on both courage and resourcefulness.

3. Third Nine
Strengthening the cheek,
There is misfortune.
Superior person, eliminating, eliminating.
Walking alone, encountering the rain.
Dripping, getting mad.
No fault.
Superior person, eliminating, eliminating.
In the end, no fault.


5. Fifth Nine
Weeds, eliminating, eliminating.
Walking the central path, no fault.
Walking the central path, no fault.
The center is not bright enough.


Relating this with my question ('what do I need to do in order to get the most of my taoist sessions") I see that what I need to do is "eliminating evil" relying on both courage and resourcefulness. The lines says that in both cases is "no fault", although in 3 there is misfortune when "He is firm enough to make a strong decision to eliminate the evil regardless of danger, but his decision shows on his face (cheek), bringing about the enmity of the evil forces. On the other hand, the third line is a yang element that responds with the yin element at the topmost place, representing the evil; thus this yang element is doubted by the other yang elements around him. He is isolated and upset, like one walking alone and encountering the rain, but because he is firm and strong,
there is no fault.
and "The fifth line is a yang element at a yang place-firm and strong, central and correct. It is in the supreme place of a king and at the top of the five
solid lines. It acts as a leader in the course of eliminating evil. Because it is too close to the yin element at the top, firm resolution is necessary. Walking in the central path will create no cause for blame."


I found a nice translation from Hex 54: The overriding message then is that whatever the subject of the inquiry we should remember that we are not in control of the situation here and therefore we have no direct power to influence the outcome of things. But if we can remain receptive, if we can yield to the way as it unfolds and avoid the desire to cut across fate, to manipulate or challenge the outcome, then things will respond and we can achieve what it is we want.


Well, this long post (and yours) has brought me more insight. I am puzzle a bit because it feels like I am swimming among sharks or like a friend told me, playing with fire. Thank you for wishing me luck.

Just for the sake of more encouragement, I just asked: "what the consequences would be for me if continuing with my sessions" and I've got: 10.1.2.3 > 45.

Alright... Fulfilling one's duty in a difficult situation... The lines (I am quite amazed with the similitude of the wording that correlate with the lines from 43):

Line 1: he walks alone with a plain heart to carry out his ideal.
Line 2: He walks in the central path with a pure heart and is content and happy.
Line 6: The uppermost line has reached the final stage of fdfiilling one's duty. Whether one reaps good fortune or misfortune depends upon how one's work has been accomplished. If everything has been well done, there is good fortune. It is important to review the past and summarize the journey from time to time. This is the only way to accumulate one's wisdom and achieve success.


Well, even when I still need to watch out for the tiger's bite, it seems encouraging. And Hex. 45 -I found ~LiSe explanation beautiful, says that I might be able to achieve "oneness with all things and people in my life. "

Unless I am really off on this interpretation, I think that the Yijing is telling me: "chill out, all goes well... just make sure you don't sub estimate the forces you're dealing with, nor over estimate your power to deal with them, and you might be able to achieve your goals. "
 

Samgirl

visitor
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
239
Reaction score
5
Oh well... I needed to ask this: what the consequences would be for me if I don't continue with the sessions?

I've received 1.1.5.6. to 32. Am I right if I see here that I should not proceed with stopping my sessions, but continue with my own course?
 

diamant

visitor
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
3,329
Reaction score
778
Hi Samgirl,

I get the impression that in this case it's not a matter of how you 'feel'
about the course, the problem is not internal, but external. You are
resolute, you want to do this course, and the course is good, but there
is a particular person/people hindering you and your progress. Someone
is in some way sabotaging you and your dedication to this course, and
doesn't let you enjoy it and learn.

How to get the best out of this course:
43 - you are resolute
43:3 - someone is hindering you, but you can't cut ties with them just yet
43:5 - still, don't give up, you will be able to cut ties with them soon
54 - don't do anything that would compromise your dignity and self-respect.
Don't be second best. Trust your own heart, your own judgement.
Don't put yourself in a position where you and your wishes come second.

What if you continue your course:
10 - continue, go on, the difficult person mentioned 'won't bite'; be polite
10:1 - follow a plain level path, do your own thing, do what you want, simply
10:2 - do what you want to do even if it means keeping it a bit under covers
10:6 - look at the positive signs in this whole situation. if the steps are good, you'll succeed
45 - you will be a successful member of a successful community, there will be joy

What if you don't continue your course:
1 - you want to be active, and to do what is right
1:1 - you know what is right, you want to act, but initially don't show anything, don't act
(again the idea of 'keeping it under covers, as in 10:2)
1:5 - there will come a time when you'll be free to show your worth; to fly, and be seen
1:6 - don't take things too far; be careful of becoming isolated; don't be arrogant
32 - duration, continue on the path you're on

Does this make any sense to you? is there someone who is causing
you to doubt yourself and this course?
 

Samgirl

visitor
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
239
Reaction score
5
Thank you, Diamanda. This is really helpful...!

Does this make any sense to you? is there someone who is causing
you to doubt yourself and this course?[/QUOTE]

In regards to this question, I think it is myself mostly. There are a couple of issues that I am dealing with... The sessions themselves are quite different of what I am used to experiment, therefore there are lots of tabus that I am learning to overcome. Even when I feel that these new experiences are a blessing -literally, I am still struggling with attachment, abandonment, and all those things that Eckhart Tolle calls "pain bodies". Sometimes is really hard for me to see the real thing because of past fears that come in disguise. Another situation is that I have been a member of a church that has guidelines that we are supposed to follow in order to be worthy. With my learnings about the Tao, I am each time more apprehensive with the "rules" that we should follow in order to be back with God. Most of these rules are not self-damaging nor go against what I believe is divine love. However, there are some things that I just cannot support, I just don't agree, and I really feel fine with my position... which I hope leads me to not have any position actually. I have talked with some of my church friends about my sessions -although I never went into details because I know I am "breaking rules" there. I didn't feel like telling anyway. I just spoke more openly with a friend of mine, who considers that I am playing with fire. He's a very good friend and I know he cares for me. He's attitude towards me hasn't change, but what he said triggered my own insecurities.

My question came mostly for my own fears I think... the sessions themselves are opening channels in me that have been closed for ages, and, in spite I am totally going for it, sometimes -many times- I feel scared - the sessions trigger my ghosts: "I am a bad girl", "I am doing something wrong", "I don't deserve this as it is too good"...

I know I am changing and that there is no going back to who I have been before I started these sessions. I am going through this path by my own though, and for the first time, I am starting to "not" feel lonely because of that. My teacher is amazing. I don't think I will be ever able to express to him how grateful I am for everything he does. Starting with he does not have any expectations about me! We have trouble communicating with words because of language barriers... Actually, I am quite happy of this because I am used to use words to conceal what I feel, and in this case, it's not possible. But yeah... my current circle do not share at all this path I am starting, and I know that some of them are worried about me because they think I am getting lost -spiritually. I don't doubt of my spiritual development at all. I do suffer a little of my own ghost that I mentioned earlier, and then... you know... it's easy to get really confused.

Thank you again so much for your time explaining me the readings... I always knew that the YiJing is a source of wisdom, but just lately I have been able to receive some if its wisdom.
 

toganm

visitor
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
139
Reaction score
0
Hi ,

The most important thing in Taoism is to "let go". When one can eliminate their desires including the desire for elimination then the spirit (shen 神) is liberated.

That is what 43.3 and 43.5 suggests in my understanding.

Hope this helps
Togan
 

sotrix

visitor
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
It does helps. It's the way to go with the Tao. Simple truth... I am not quite there yet though. But I am faithful. :) Thank you for your response.
 

Samgirl

visitor
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
239
Reaction score
5
Hi ,

The most important thing in Taoism is to "let go". When one can eliminate their desires including the desire for elimination then the spirit (shen 神) is liberated.

That is what 43.3 and 43.5 suggests in my understanding.

Hope this helps
Togan

It helps indeed. I also believe that "let be" is key here. In any case, this has been a great conversation.
 

jilt

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
553
Reaction score
3
perhaps a few remarks could help:

to get the most out of your lessons in taoistic massage: to get the most out of something is not very taoistic, that would result in 1-6. So let go that ambition and unrest, then things will go easier.
Also, what I see a lot on this forum, is when we have more changing lines, all are taken to change it into another hexagram. That could be right, but a hexagram is a process we are going through in time, the lines are stages in time, the weak and strong moments that can either strengthen or weaken the situation, the character of the hexagram.
Suppose you are doing a massage, then you are building up the workings in time. If you press to hard on a yang place in the beginning your work would be counterproductive (that would be a strong line on a yang place), so then the whole balance and the chartacter of the situation would change. Pressing and pinching a swollen and stressed place in the beginning would be like a strong yang on the first place. gently massaging the surroundings of this place would be the thing to do when you want to continue the character of this time, this situation, else the first line would change. Going on in time we reach the second place. Suppose this would meet a soft and cool place, a weak place surrounding some stressed muscle. If we give it gentle and soft attention it would change, we would give yin yin energy. It needs some stronger yang massage to get balance.
And so we continue until we reach a point in time we want to flip the situation into somthing desired.

Well, about 54: it is one of the cyclic hexagrams, it also respresents a catalizing process. So, something in itself inert, unchanging, small, that makes something else change rapidly and in mass. The lake is the unchanging, mirrorlike catalist, the thunder the reaction. By doing nothing things will happen.

Thomas Cleary translated a Taoist I Ching, I can't find it on my bookshelves, so you must look for the title yourself. It is all about taoist alchimy and I Ching. Some 20 years ago I never understood much of it, but perhaps now I would.

cheers,

bert.
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top