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43 to 58 Confused by Karcher

blissing

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My question was "What will happen if I plan to go to China in Spring 2005?" I have these concerns: health-SARS, bird flu, my own gastric distress the last time I went; being the source of great ridicule because I'm a larger than average woman; finding the right people to come with me-I'm doing post-grad studies of my indigenous ancestors-I'm half Chinese, half European-need a translator and videographer; finding some other sources of funding besides a credit card.

I'm confused by the 3rd transforming line which, in Karcher, states, " You are involved with cruel people intent on their mastery. This way is closed. See this clearly and leave now. You will be caught in a flood of insults and abuse. This is not a mistake. Be very clear and leave now."

I'm not sure how to take this. I did this a few days ago, and am now wondering if it refers to my family and/or ancestors. Anyway, the hexagrams themselves seem pretty positive, so this threw me. Thanks in advance, I'm a newbie to both I Ching and this space!
 

dobro p

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"I'm not sure how to take this. I did this a few days ago, and am now wondering if it refers to my family and/or ancestors."

It refers to your proposed project to go to China and do the research. See, my take on 43.3 is that it talks about the negative outcome of facing up to a particular situation, so the smart money leaves instead, enduring anger and emotion in the process, but which is free of fault. I'd say abandon the project.

But I also think that 43.3 is a bit ambiguous, and another reading might generate a different interpretation.

Anybody?
 

dobro p

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Oh - and my take on one changing line in a hexagram is that the resulting hexagram isn't much of an issue. So I don't think Hex 58 comes into the picture much, really - not as an outcome, anyway. Hex 58 is about things coming to expression, and that's pretty much built into 43.3, right? Separating yourself from a situation comes to expression, anger comes to expression, criticism comes to expression. It's interesting to me how the valuation on this line is: 'without fault'. Sort of along the lines of: "Well, your decision won't be popular, and in fact be prepared to be persona non grata, but you're without fault."
 

ladyganesha

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I don't remember the name of it, but there is a translation of the IC that gives an interesting intepretation of 43.3 saying that "one is forced to have an ongoing relationship with an inferior (person, thing) and although you suffer in your reputation for it, there is nothing you can do but continue to persevere as best as possible under the circumstances". I think it may be worthwhile to check out all of the people involved in the project to see if they are all in their integrity. 58 seems to indicate to me that there will be a joyous connection with others resulting regardless of whether or not inferior elements cannot be totally eliminated.
Lady
 

gene

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Blissing

This certainly appears to me to be a mixed blessing. There are certainly warnings. One possible warning is that you might be the subject of detremental discussion. However, the third line has a relationship with the sixth, and because of this, it is possible to deal with the attacks with firm resolution. In other words, the way to deal with it, appears to me to be to ignore it. If you are resolved you can make something of the trip in spite of the difficulties.

Gene
 

blissing

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Wow, thanks! I thought I was on email notification, but I didn't receive anything.

The interesting thing is, my life has recently been purged of "enemies". I can't imagine who would fight me on this decision, right now anyay, unless it refers to people who might provide funding! Actually, that resonates with me, because trying to get funding for spiritual work is always a struggle. Family in China can also be a struggle, because they're quite manipulative, that's why I mentioned them. I've been worried what they would think about the work I'm doing. Hey, this is working as I'm typing! How cool is that?

Is it worthwhile to do the reading of the opposite-what if I don't go- as Karcher suggests? Thanks again!
 

ladyganesha

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excuse the digression; what is email notification?

By the way, 43 line 3 doesn't neccessarily mean enemies, but rather, connection to something that is just plain old inferior, energy sucking and beneath your level of evolution. Perhaps check around for those elements in the situation rather than looking for any real 'enemy'.
Lady
 

hilary

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You can turn email notification on in your profile, and get copies of messages from the board sent to you. You can't reply by email, though - you have to click the link and come back to the thread.

Agreed, completely - 43,3 doesn't have to refer to some other person who is 'strong in the cheekbones'. This can always be an attitude of your own.

What attitude? I think of it as putting on a brave face to the point of rigidity. Self-assertion is one thing, but this is way beyond that - a total non-responsiveness to the world that does not work well. The alternative is to put yourself out there, and probably get bespattered with mud (insulted, misjudged). But that is a real decision, and (despite how unpleasant it feels), no mistake.

On the basis of this, Blissing, I think you might take a deep breath, think about all the fun of being pointed out and laughed at, and go. Or at least, ask about not going, to get a more complete picture that would give you a better perspective on the various interpretations you've been offered so far.
 

blissing

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I cast the question about not going, and got 21 to 20. I still felt confused and then asked for clarity and got 23.6. That was quite clear, but since my question was about "planning to go", I now feel that I'm not meant to make plans right now, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm not going this spring.

I also got in the 23 reading that I'm mean to pursue something else in my life that I've been putting off--searching for my birth father. Or, at least it seems like the 23 attitude would be a good tack to take with this issue. Does this happen with divination or the I Ching in general? It actually refers to something else in my life that I should be doing?
 
C

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Hi Blissing,

Other than you being a woman, you remind me so much of David. Let me tell you a little about him. David was given up for adoption by his mom and myself. We were in our late teens when he was conceived: on a wonderful afternoon upon the desolate sand dunes of the northeastern coast. It turns out that his mom and I married two years later. Many times my heart wondered about David, and because his mother would cry every time I brought him up to her, I stopped doing so. But neither she nor I ever forgot him. During those years, birth-parents were not allowed to search for the child. So we waited. When David turned 23, he set out to find his birth-mother. He had completed his BS and was meandering aimlessly with post grad courses, mostly spiritual and psych studies. David located his mom through an agency, never anticipating finding his dad at the same time. It was for all of us a profound meeting, filled with tears and stories of 23 years. We?ve become very close with David since.

David has become a dedicated practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism: booking and leading guided tours through Tibet and India. His long time girlfriend and he had a beautiful daughter three years ago. I got to meet them all last summer.

I can only encourage you, if you feel led, to pursue your birth father. No one can guarantee it will be a happy event, but I can say for sure, you will understand and develop links that are missing in your life today.

Now, about your readings.

I can?t say if it pertains to going to China, searching for your birth-father, both or neither. But it does have to do with your present state of mind concerning these things.

I read 43.3 similarly as Hilary has expressed. But I also see a dynamic of feeling split in an inner conflict. You want to leave what is old and venture to what is new. But there is a part of you that doesn?t want to let go. This resistant part takes on the dark role, the lesser and possibly the oppressor. You have a close tie to this lesser person in you, and so you are tempted to bite its head off. But you bear with her. You don?t really have much choice in the matter. But the trouble is transitory, and you overcome the oppression with help from those who understand and join with you.

23 is this letting go.

Wishing you great things.
 

blissing

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Thanks, Candid! The story of my birth father is that I contacted him a few months ago, and since we both know that there are more candidates for being my father than just him, he doesn't want to know for sure by getting a DNA test. I'm in the process of writing back to him to request one again. I won't be able to move from this until I know. I don't have any other immediate family right now. One cousin in the US, the rest are more distant cousins in China. It's really good to hear your story, though!

I really appreciate all the deep wisdom and compassion on this forum!
 

archie

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Hi everybody,

My apologies for the time lapse in responding to these thoughts. I access the site as often as I can though.

Blissing's question and Candid's sharing reminded me of a question I have always had. How does one deal with the karma that begins with a particular mistake/act? Specially when it involves or affects others?

Your responses are important to me - as my marriage is on the verge of breaking up. We are trying to stick together for the sake of the kids. Given the fact that they are going through this trauma for no fault of theirs, how does one still try to do one's best for them?

Iching advises to do what is right and proper. What would it mean in the circumstances? Keep the children's interests in mind and stay on? or seperate with dignity and strive to maintain a cordial relationship? To what extent will I be responsible for what they undergo?

Regards - Archie
 

dobro p

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My understanding is that you have to weigh it up and ask yourself and your partner which option does less damage. If you do that, you can relax your concerns about karma, because if your concern is to minimize damage, then you minimize the amount of negative karma that your action generates. It's impossible to avoid generating negative karma as you go through life, but you can reduce or minimize it.
 

blissing

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As someone who was raised by two people who didn't get along, I always wished they would get divorced! I say that if you are both responsible people, then the effects of your divorce will be greatly lessened. I know one man who is a great father, and he divorced when his daughter was 6 yrs. old. He moved next door and lived there for a while, then moved around the corner and down the block, and still lives there. He saw his daughter almost every day. She's a sophomore in college, doing very well. She knows she is loved, and calls her dad a few times a week and shares a lot with him. It's so beautiful to see, and I'm so envious I never had that!

Although I'm still very much a beginner with I Ching, the depth of it continues to reveal itself to me--I can see it even just in the time since my original post!
 
S

seeker

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Archie, only you can decide the right and correct course for you. But I agree with Blissing that it depends on the relationship you have as to how the children will be affected. My husband and I recently separated, and although it has been a difficult adjustment for my daughter (she is 6), I think it will be better in the long run. For me the deciding thing where she was concerned was what kind of example I wanted to set for her. Many children grow up to choose relationships like the ones they grew up with. I was afraid that if she grew up in a household with a loveless marriage, she would choose something like that for herself later on, in the same way that children who grow up in abusive situations often choose abusive spouses. Of course, in our case, we fought a lot and it was obvious, even to her, how miserable I was, so my situation may be different. But I just wanted to pass on a different perspective for you. Whatever you decide, I wish you luck, but 2 parent households are not always better than one. It really depends on your individual situation.
 

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