47.4.5 -> 7

[alexscherr]

Hello all. I'm new here, just signed up today, and have spent a few hours browsing through Hilary's fine set of resources. And now I'm ready to post a request for help with a reading.

background:
I'm going through a serious transition internally: from a phase of deep and almost paralysing anxiety and grief into a more productive relationship with myself and my immediate world. And it's going well, really: many challenges, but many resources to bring to bear. Still, I'm finding my daily experience one filled with fear, anxiety and strong self-judgment. I'm working with these feelings while also sustaining an active and demanding job.

question as written:
Will I be able to understand and calm the anger, fear, anxiety and judgment within me-to make myself whole? How?

reading:
primary: 47, with moving lines at 4 and 5.
secondary: 7

thoughts and problems:
47 makes perfect sense, and describes my current situation with typically sharp but sympathetic accuracy. the line readings also make complete sense to me.

But 7 is a bit . . . enigmatic. My wife points to the existence of a war within me, and the availability of resources to conduct that war, with the hexagram suggesting the need for kind but firm discipline in marshalling those inner resources: water under earth, in several of the translations I'm using.

Hilary's text (http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/learn/gua/hexagrams/hexagram7.php) suggests a taking of personal responsibility in a time of focused, intense inner struggle, and a grim situation: that too makes good sense.

Still I'm still at sea with the connection between 47 and 7 . . . I'd welcome any thoughts.

Thanks in advance for any help, and for creating what seems to be such a welcoming community,

Alex

method: yarrow stalks (traditional)
translations: Wilhelm/Baynes; Wang Bi/Lynn; Huang

 

[tigerintheboat]

Organize Against Oppression

Will I be able to understand and calm the anger, fear, anxiety and judgment within me-to make myself whole? How?

reading:
primary: 47, with moving lines at 4 and 5.
secondary: 7

thoughts and problems:
47 makes perfect sense, and describes my current situation with typically sharp but sympathetic accuracy. the line readings also make complete sense to me.

But 7 is a bit . . . enigmatic.

Take Hexagram 7 as the need to organize yourself, as an army needs to organize itself for a military campaign. Thus the answer to your question becomes to "organize against oppression."

Tiger

 

[Trojina]

Hex 7 can refer to a campaign or project and here your campaign is to feel better, to deal with all the negative emotions you struggle with. Thats how i see 7 in your reading, your mission to deal with the inner oppression you suffer.

So you are approaching this as if it were a campaign or a mission, thats the background to the question,

I think the lines of 47 show this is really slow progress and you do need patience with yourself. It is just possible with 47.4 that one can make the whole project harder work than it really is. The gold (or is it bronze, can't remember) carriage in 47.4 according to Hilarys wiki can symbolise the outwards trappings of things that can actually be quite cumbersome like travelling in a heavy weight vehicle that moves really slow rather than hopping on your bike. The idea being i think that one can be getting in ones own way here by insisting on doing things a certain way when there are quicker routes . My own experience is that while this might be true, mostly in 47.4 one just can't help it and one has to go slow, thats just how it is...but one does arrive eventually .

Also 47.5 shows one suffering a lack of faith in self (which is precisely what you said you suffer from) but it does show eventual release through patience and stady progress in the right direction.

I think that is your 'how'. I think this is a picture of how your progress is right now, its a hard slog (47) of a campaign (7) (or it feels it) but you are getting there. Some commetaries talk of 47.5 as being about coming to realise one is ones own authority.

If you take the 7 as advise as well as context it would suggest being fairly methodical about your approach. For some reason cognitive therapy comes to mind since the thoughts that oppress you need to be dealt with but with patience and order. Though 47.4 can suggest a kind of self conciousness getting in the way ie always watching your own progress can hinder you...

 

[alexscherr]

Thank you both, Tiger and Trojan . . .

Tiger: "Take Hexagram 7 as the need to organize yourself, as an army needs to organize itself": that makes very practical what I had been thinking of more generally, and confirms some things I'd been doing around altering habits and improving my handling of tasks.

Trojan: I very much like your suggestion that the 'golden carriage' might refer to an overly complex way of dealing with these things . . . and matches my sense that the campaign for me is to get more simply at the core fears and concerns.

And I think you're right about the need for patient and methodical working through of things, and the connection between that and 7's image of a strong line in the 2d position serving to gently but firmly martial the resources of the other lines. The method for me includes some cognitive therapy, routine time with the I Ching, exercise, mindfulness meditation, steady work that I enjoy, and play: all in an effort to increase my own compassion for myself and my ability to guide myself. So it's reassuring to hear you read 7 in this way.

Again, thank you both for your helpful readings.

Alex

 

[ginnie]

You are in charge of you

But 7 is a bit . . . enigmatic. My wife points to the existence of a war within me, and the availability of resources to conduct that war, with the hexagram suggesting the need for kind but firm discipline
Alex

I don't know what others in the Reading Circle community think on this point, Alex, but my opinion is that it's not good for you to consult with your wife about your hexagrams. I know you want to share your interest in the I Ching with your wife, but as married people deeply pondering life's concerns, surely you can give each other the space to do so?

And my other point is that H7 does not mean being in the army or acting in a military way. It just means, as Trojan, said, not letting your negative emotions ever get the best of you. You are in charge of you.

 

[rosada]

Welcome aboard Alex!

BTW, if you are indeed discussing the hexagrams with your wife (not sure that is what you meant), I for one think that's great. I wish my husband shared my faith and interest in the I Ching. That's a different viewpoint from ginnie's but that's okay, that's why it's called "Shared Readings".

rosada

 

[alexscherr]

Thank you, Ginnie . . . that sense of H7 adds something helpful to what others have said.

I'd be interested to hear others' views on consulting a spouse on a reading. My wife and I both use the I Ching, with more or less regularity over the years, and typically do not check in with each other about what we find. But as long time friends and partners, leading fairly independent lives, we do ask each other for advice and guidance on many things that trouble us, and rely on the advice we get. It's a part of our relationship.

Sometimes asking advice about a reading (which we each have done with the other on occasion) has proven to be a useful way to do that. I know I trust her judgment about readings, and she seems to feel the same about mine. In this case, I approached her with the question and the reading, and told her how far I'd gotten in my understanding. She considered the question (she certainly knows a lot about the context of the question) and offered her thoughts, which extended and deepened my understanding, as the comments here have done.

It would seem odd to me to ask advice of (for now) strangers here, but not to do so of my wife, with whom I have gone through so much, and whose insight I value.

So your perspective has (clearly!) made me think, and I will consider what you say. I'd be interested if that's a consensus here, or if there are differing views.

Thanks, again, Ginnie.

Alex

 

[Trojina]

I don't know what others in the Reading Circle community think on this point, Alex, but my opinion is that it's not good for you to consult with your wife about your hexagrams. I know you want to share your interest in the I Ching with your wife, but as married people deeply pondering life's concerns, surely you can give each other the space to do so?

.

I'm baffled by this statement Ginnie why on earth should one not share consultations with ones spouse if one wants to ? I mean can't married people 'deeply ponder lifes concerns' together ? And er isn't up to each couple to decide if they'd like to or not ?

Anyway i totally disagree with you. I had a partner who didn't know anything about the Yi but used to suggest i consult about joint matters now and then, like about where to move to etc. What was great was that even knowing nothing about the Yi he'd take the image (never bothered with the commentaries) sit back and tell me what he thought it meant, and I found his immediate responses to the images given very helpful...

Thinking further...and further wrinkling brow in bafflement, if you can share readings with friends why can't you share them with your lover or partner ?

 

[ginnie]

Thinking further...and further wrinkling brow in bafflement, if you can share readings with friends why can't you share them with your lover or partner ?

Well, it's not a rule I was proposing. Sorry if it came off that way.

I have been thinking lately upon this question: When we connect in a spiritual way, in which direction are we connecting, so to speak? Are we necessarily connecting horizontally, across the gap that separates us from other people we can perceive, the people we already know, our friends and family members? Or is the primary connection we are seeking with the I Ching itself, an unseen agency of a spiritual kind?

Maybe this is not an issue with other people. But it has been an issue with me, probably because I have known very possessive people. It has been important for me to separate my interests from their interests in order to make any progress at all.

 

[alexscherr]

I can see Ginnie's point. I would hesitate to share a reading (especially on such a personal question) with anyone whose motives in assessing the hexagram I could not trust. Especially so, if I knew that I had an ongoing relationship with them of any sort, where the risk is that the reading (or the insight gained through the reading) became an occasion for struggle between us.

Luckily, I don't have that concern about my wife. And in truth, in her read of Hexagram 7, she stressed that the work it suggested was work that I had to do on my own, alone. We've learned to live happily with the knowledge that, in our life together, we each have things that we will do (and really have to do) separately, and things that we do together.

As to Ginnie's last question, I've always understood the I Ching as first and foremost a connection with the resource that it represents, as an 'unseen agent' of spiritual development. If, on occasion, that agency creates a chance for connection with someone else, especially someone I love, well, that's a bonus, for sure.

Alex

 

[Trojina]

Well, it's not a rule I was proposing. Sorry if it came off that way.

I have been thinking lately upon this question: When we connect in a spiritual way, in which direction are we connecting, so to speak? Are we necessarily connecting horizontally, across the gap that separates us from other people we can perceive, the people we already know, our friends and family members? Or is the primary connection we are seeking with the I Ching itself, an unseen agency of a spiritual kind?

Maybe this is not an issue with other people. But it has been an issue with me, probably because I have known very possessive people. It has been important for me to separate my interests from their interests in order to make any progress at all.

Well I think I know you well enough to know that you don't issue 'rules' so i guessed that was just the way it sounded

But the points you make here I totally understand. Its something I have given thought to also, not just with the I Ching but with spiritual development in general. I often consider how much connection a person can make with their own souls when they are connecting with others most of the time. Its like how can you ever look up beyond your everyday boundaries if you are constantly looking sideway at your fellows (this is making me think of 61.4) Society places so much status and emphasis on relationships as the unacknowleged religion of our time, wanting time to be alone to really connect is seen as weird. So I agree I think that ones spirituality is something between oneself and whatever you call it, God/Divine/Universe.

However I heard the spiritual purpose of marriage is 2 people making that divine connection together...thats what i heard, can't say i ever have known it.

Then again our seperateness is also an illusion isn't it...hmm

 

[ginnie]

Society places so much status and emphasis on relationships as the unacknowleged religion of our time, wanting time to be alone to really connect is seen as weird.

However I heard the spiritual purpose of marriage is 2 people making that divine connection together...thats what i heard, can't say i ever have known it.

Then again our seperateness is also an illusion isn't it...hmm

Somehow, all of the above must be true, but not always at the same time.

Somewhere the I Ching says that when we rely on other people, our lives must be like rollercoaster rides. Because: When things are going well with the other people, then we're up and happy. But when things are not going well with our relationships, then we're down and devastated.

Somehow we need to separate and detach, so that our everyday happiness is no longer dependent on our relationships with other human beings.

That is, we have to learn what joy is and what happiness is. Happiness doesn't have anything to do with our husband or our wife or any other external circumstance.

Somehow we have to give ourselves enough time and space to understand what is meant by "within," to strengthen our connections "within." And how all the people in our lives are external to what is "within."

I'm glad he has a partner with whom to share his spiritual growth. That's great. Because of how we're all born into separate bodies, however, we have as individuals these very specific and unique complexities to iron out in our spiritual growth, things that someone else, however sympathetic, maybe could never even perceive, let alone understand. We are mostly faced with doing our work by ourselves -- which is actually a good thing.

Paradoxically, making time to be alone to do our own spiritual work will inevitably result in us being more present in relationships, too.

As I recall, the I Ching at some point helped me to stop sharing the content of my dreams and the content of my inner work so freely with the people in my life as I had been doing. I see now the wisdom of this. We don't have to talk about everything, share everything. When we become more happy and joyful, let us share our happiness and our joy. :bows::bows::bows: