49.2.5 > 34 Asking about another's perspective

[Retro158]

I've read that it can be valuable to ask about another person's perspective, ie how they view something, but have never inquired that way.

Recently I asked how does another person views me and our connection and got 49.2.5 > 34.

This certainly seems to suggest change, but in which direction?

It feels like this type of inquiry could be easily confusing. Is it reflecting their view or my perception of their perception.

I'll appreciate any suggestions on this and how to approach this type of inquiry.

Thank you!

 

[Retro158]

No one has replied to my post, but I did find a very good discussion of questions about how others are feeling and I'm now taking the perspective that this type of question probably isn't very valuable - and can interfere with actually interacting with others. Seemed worth sharing.

Here's the link to the thread from the archives:
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?5694-61-5-and-can-you-ask-about-another-person

 

[Liselle]

This is a controversial topic (well, there is a school of thought where it isn't controversial - you just shouldn't do it).

My own perspective is that it matters what your motivation is. If it's a sincere question asked for a good reason, I think Yi can and does answer in kind (sincerely and helpfully). If it's not, for example if it's one in a long list of obsessive questions someone is asking, then Yi is likely to answer quite differently and not always nicely.

 

[Trojina]

That thread you linked to is pretty old...7 years old. Here's a newer one on the topic and related issues for relationship questions from only 4 years ago http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...42-Blog-post-Advice-for-relationship-readings

Recently I asked how does another person views me and our connection and got 49.2.5 > 34.

This certainly seems to suggest change, but in which direction?

It feels like this type of inquiry could be easily confusing. Is it reflecting their view or my perception of their perception.

Who knows, I don't. I suppose at the very least there looks to be some big shift in perceptions of the relationship ? Or it might show the relationship itself is changing regardless of perceptions....whether that's your perception of his perception or his perception or......The yang change pattern is 29, the yin pattern 30 so it seems that what is unclear may become clear perhaps.


Basically it's simpler and clearer to ask about you so if you asked 'what do I need to know now about this relationship ?' it might be more useful. 49.2.5>34 is quite a strong answer though. It's not a timid uncertain one. There's nothing tentative about it, it's robust, so there doesn't look to be much flakiness going on between you ?

 

[Retro158]

Trojina,
Thank you for the more current thread link.

Where can I find out more about the 'yang and yin change patterns' that you mention? I'm not familiar with that aspect of interpreting a cast.

As for this relationship, there isn't any contact happening right now and I asked 'What can I do to improve this situation?' The reply was 53.3.4 > 12. Stagnation certainly seems accurate right now and I don't get the sense there's much I can do at this point, but 53 seems to suggest the impasse is temporary. How would you see this?

Thanks again.

 

[Trojina]

You may not want to bother with the change patterns if you are new, don't want to over complicate things, but here is a blog post on them http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/learn/consult/changes.php

to find yang pattern/hex make all change lines yang, the rest yin
to find yin change pattern male all change lines yin, the rest yang

for me seeing the pattern in the answer just gives another layer ...highlighting the points of change as if they were gateways to the reading.

As for this relationship, there isn't any contact happening right now and I asked 'What can I do to improve this situation?' The reply was 53.3.4 > 12. Stagnation certainly seems accurate right now and I don't get the sense there's much I can do at this point, but 53 seems to suggest the impasse is temporary. How would you see this

53 shows very gradual progress such as getting to know someone. In 53.3 someone disrupts that process, doesn't care for things. It is shown as a house left unguarded, a pregnant woman who will not come full term and man who is not honouring his responsibilities (well something like that). I think the advice is to 'guard against robbers' and so here I'd say you need to protect yourself from being treated carelessly, from giving yourself away too easily, maybe emotionally....It can mean someone just doesn't bother to care for what they should have nurtured. From the way you write it sounds like he is the one who has failed to nurture the development of the relationship ? Or maybe it's you ? 53.4 shows a sort of awkward and temporary solution. Perhaps you will have the opportunity to speak butit may be awkward.

I think you need to think carefully about who 53.3 applies to because that is the key. It's a careless line, perhaps how people treat one another when they take each other for granted ? If this is about you you may want to rectify things by making contact. If it is about him then I'd advise you to look after yourself because he may not really be treating you well with such behaviour.

It's not a great cast, not with 53.3 and 12 as relating hex but I can't interpret this without standing in your shoes. Read the actual translation.....have you abandoned or not cared for something that you really should have treated with more care ...or did he do that to you ?

This 12 state you are in, no contact, happened for a reason. Sometimes people don't consider other's feelings and frankly 53.3 is pointing at that kind of thing I think. There are many small attentions needed to keep any kind of courtship alive, any relationship alive. In 53 you can't skip stages of that but in 53.3 someone does. This might be things that constitute a kind of neglect such as not considering someone, forgetting their birthdays...all those little things that build up into bigger things if left untended.

In 53.4 it looks like one can come to some sort of arrangement, but it's awkward and temporary while you sort something more permanent out.

 

[Retro158]

Trojina,

Your response really gave me pause - because of how accurate the I Ching seems to have been and because your explanation helped me see that. Thank you very much. It really makes me want to continue to learn more.

As for this situation, here's a bit more backstory: the carelessness you highlight in 53.3 is very much what I experienced from the other person. Somewhat like losing one’s date to another at the dance. Very unexpected and quite painful. Shortly thereafter, I asked how she felt about us and got the 49.2.5 > 34 that started this string.

The carelessness was surprising as well as we'd been getting on very well, though things were slow in developing. A few weeks ago, I’d asked how to improve the situation and got 3.1.2.4 > 47 with 3.4 seeming to indicate the possibility of improvement.

Your insights and the images from 53.3 do ring very true and your advice warranted:

“If it is about him then I'd advise you to look after yourself because he may not really be treating you well with such behaviour.”

And thus the Stagnation of 12 is fitting as well as has been no communication since then, and because we’re part of the same social circle the awkwardness of 53.4 seems likely though what shape that will take remains to be seen.

In response to asking ‘what am I in this to learn?’ I got 2.6 > 23 and I take that to indicate this is not a time to act outwardly, but to stay open to guidance and do some inner work to see what I might let go of.

Again, I really appreciate your time and attention to this and thought you might be interested a bit more of the picture.

 

[Trojina]

Thanks for the bigger picture. Your cast of 3.1.2.4>47 gives me a similar feel to the 53 cast. There does appear to be room for improvement yet the conditions don't exactly favour it.


I see 2.6 as 'don't lose your juice'. Juice is what keeps you going, your blood, your life energy. In hexagram 2 one is open to guidance but by line 6 being so open has reached it's limit. There's a time to be open to all possibility and then there's a time to make choices and decide between options. If you go on aiming to keep options eternally open then it is like 2 dragons, 2 possibilities fighting, losing their juice.

Take any small example of times of the 'the end of being open' and see what happens when you try to extend that time. You lose energy.

Silly example. What shall I have for breakfast ? Toast or porridge ? I can wait to see how my body feels guided to what it needs today and that is good....but what if I try to keep that option entirely open ? I will keep fighting in my mind 'toast or porridge, toast or porridge' and if I go on like that I won't get any food and will lose energy in a neurosis of indecision . So my view of 2.6 is more or less opposite to yours.

The time for guidance is passing, now it's time to stop losing juice/blood/emotional energy. You have to know when it is time to cease waiting for cues and guidance.

I wonder if you would be far better to make a decision about this ? Whilst I couldn't say there is no room for improvement, I'm not sure hanging on for that uncertain improvement is good for you. You asked about what to learn and I think 2.6 is advising you to learn when to stop waiting to be guided, stop losing juice through indecision. Make a clear choice.

I guess if these were my casts, both the 53 and the 3 I'd be thinking of how much energy I want to throw at this ? It's a very old cliché but there really are a lot more tastier fish in the sea than this one. However it has to be according to how you feel.

That 47 in the 3>47 also makes me feel you have let this go on too long. Do something one way or the other. Free yourself and your energy. Either call her and get back on track with her or let her go is my view of the way forward for you

 

[Retro158]

I'm getting a better sense from you comments of the way you use the images of the hexagram. It seems very useful with more room for interpretation in a less literal fashion - yet seemingly more meaningful. I'm also aware of my tendency to interpret through my own preferences and the downsides to that - and my tendency to let this type of situation go on much too long - so it's very helpful to get comments from you and the community here.

So, last night I was at a social event and she was there and while I had to interact in passing, I kept my distance. Afterwards, I asked 'what's going on here?' and got 23 unchanging. That's the second time this hex has shown up in a few days: letting go of what's old and not useful?

Then I asked for a comment on my feeling that I'd shut this person out (which didn't feel good), but didn't know what else to do. The cast was 28.1.3 > 58. I can see the stress this has caused in 28 and the third line seems rather ominous, like the excess has gone too far, but I'm not clear where 58 fits in. Could it be the ridgepole, primary support for this has broken and by moving on the result will be more joyous?

Again, thank you very much.

 

[Trojina]

The relating hexagram 58, would here refer to the background, the context of the question. You were at a party, a pretty 58ish thing. Relating hexagram does not = what you move on to or the future though can hold aspects of the future..you might find this blog post useful http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2013/06/01/the-old-resulting-hexagram-conundrum/ not everyone sees it the same way but for me it doesn't make a huge amount of sense ot see the relating hex as the 'outcome',


So you were at a social gathering where open exchange took place between people and you felt overwhelmed on some level (28) it seems to me you took great care in how you conducted yourself (28.1) but in the end it seems it was all pretty hard to bear and you couldn't bear it. You expected rather too much of yourself (28.3) Yang pattern 36....this cast arises through wounding, hurt, pain, hiding....yin pattern 6....it's really hard to get through this in a comfortable way.


It's not going to be comfortable to see her and maybe you need to be easy on yourself in terms of what you expect from yourself emotionally. We do sometimes expect an awful lot of ourselves in terms of the emotional pain we think we can carry on with a brave face through.

Stop blaming yourself and cut yourself some slack is my advice.

This is the kind of cast where someone else may see something quite different. Some casts seem obvious but other casts people can vary more on. But that is my current take on it FWIW.


When you start to find you are in pain a lot more than in joy in a relationship you have to start to take care of yourself as you would take care of a best friend. I've got the feeling your best friend would likely be trying to introduce you to new girls, distract you and see you have a good time.

I could be wrong....

 

[Retro158]

Trojina,

Again, I've really appreciated your time and thoughtful comments on this rather long string of mine. Your points are well taken and I feel inspired to both take care of myself regarding this situation and to continue to deepen my study of the I Ching.

Many thanks!