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50.3 > 64 Eventual rain in this situation, or only afterwards?

pallasathena

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My partner and I are trying to work on a more challenging part of our relationship, and after a recent talk I asked "What will happen if we both try to improve this with the ideas we discussed tonight?" I received hexagram 50.3 > 64.

It seems like this changing line is about trying to remake something, so that at first there is non-connection, but later eventual success. I'm just trying to understand whether there is anything in this to indicate whether the eventual success is in the current situation, or only later in a different context? I've read a bunch of commentaries and it seems there is also the idea of one's gifts not being seen/appreciated. I just can't tell if there is anything in this casting to say whether the eventual rains/success is like an initial relationship impasse but then working it out after that, or more like the impasse is with the entire relationship but then you'll have success later after this relationship?

Hexagram 64 as the relating hexagram didn't really clear things up for me, as it seems to indicate things are not yet settled and you're trying to be watchful for what to do.

I'd totally appreciate any insights or previous experience with this hexagram line! Thanks!
 
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mirian

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Hi, 64 as a relating hexagram shows what you already know, that this is a work in progress, the job hasn't been done yet, so you need to keep your focus.

Hex 50 is good for development, as the big pot in which you can prepare/work/process the elements of a given situation to achieve the
transformation that you want.

As you got line 3 - in answer to your question - you are still not taking full advantage of the potential of hex 50 to improve the relationship. It is possible that the new ideas you have discussed might need time to really sink in. Or even though you have agreed on the ideas, putting them in practice represents a challenge to both of you. So line 3 is showing present obstacles and challenges in your way. But somehow the prospects are actually good and suggest that this will work out eventually.

The way I see it, your reading is all in the context of your current relationship. :bows:
 
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I agree with Mirian.
I would add: 64, being the last hexagram, indicates that you are completing a cycle, in your relationship. You are not yet there, yet simultaneously, you are quite advanced, and ready to begin anew (since the iching goes in a circle, 64 being an ending that ushers in a new beginning).
50.3 says that there's a pheasant that has not been eaten because the vessel is missing something. The pheasant is there, which is auspicious.
 

pallasathena

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Thanks to both of you for replying, I appreciate it!

Yes, this is true that it is a challenge to actually put into practice some of the changes we've discussed - we sort of agree on the ideas but the specifics are a little more challenging. We have already begun to run into those obstacles now. I hope you're right that the eventual success is within our relationship.

Yes, 64 being an ending that ushers in a new beginning was one of the things that made me wonder whether the eventual success would be in this relationship. But yes, we are simultaneously advanced - we were together for about 6.5 years, then were separated for about a year, then got back together last summer/fall. Things have been largely better, but we've run into one of our old major conflict areas lately. I appreciate you pointing out that it's auspicious that the pheasant is there.

Thanks again, and I'll try to remember to provide an update once more time has passed!
 

pallasathena

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Early update: not looking good. We'll see. Pretty bad day of hurtful fighting like many in the past. I asked about how to most productively deal with a fight from this morning and got Hexagram 36.5. I do understand that one, and have gotten Hexagram 36 a decent bit in the past - tired of having to deal with things that way in this relationship, which is why I was wondering if the original question's Hexagram 50.3 was truly going to be within this current relationship.
 
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mirian

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Thanks for updating. I still see 50.3 as talking about your current relationship (maybe others here have a different view please?). You are both somehow stuck in that line 3 repeating old patterns and not achieving the transformation. But then when you ask how to deal with this fighting routine you get 36.5, which is not really saying that this is over and you need to get out. Your readings give me the impression that there is something in this relationship that you are missing, that you cannot see and/or understand, and somehow you will have to learn and work this out by yourself.
 
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pallasathena

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Definitely some old patterns have been repeating, though I've been trying very hard to steer things in new directions. Yes, it's totally possible there are things that I or we are not seeing for how to make things better. That sort of needs to happen soon, though, for there to be any chance of it working out.

As far as Hexagram 36.5, it's not necessarily saying it's over, but every time I've gotten it has been a situation where he is being sort of deliberately hurtful in speech and disrespectful beyond the details of the specific disagreement, so it feels like I'm having to just hide out until things blow over, but not necessarily fully honor what looks like a healthy or respectful conflict resolution to me. And that was the case again tonight when I got that. So just wasn't thrilled and wasn't feeling hopeful about things. We'll see. Thanks for commenting again.
 
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mirian

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Yes, 36.5 clearly shows that you're being hurt and he is being absolutely over the top. The question here is how to transform this (50.3), within the scope of the relationship, without either compromising (36.5) or breaking up completely. It is understandable how frustrated you feel.
 

thisismybody

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I've gotten 50.3 twice this week about a relationship. I've also gotten it for a shoulder injury that wouldn't heal. I eventually had an mri, a few months ago, that suggested the bursa was inflamed. Curiously, the issue started when my partner slept on my shoulder and created some issue that worsened with time and use. That was over 3 years ago. (Btw, we are not together right now.)

I took 50.3 to mean it has what it needs to heal but needs helping along. The doctor said if the cortisone shot doesn't completely alleviate symptoms, because it sometimes will, surgery could be used to clean out the bursa and shave the bone to allow for more room. That spot, and the shoulder, is particularly prone to injury because not enough blood flow. Inflammation continues the cycle of dis-ease and symptoms.

I've also taken 50.3 to be about having all the necessary ingredients but unable to partake in what could be a delicious meal. Healing. Pure, unadulterated love. The ding has been changed, so maybe non use suggest someone cannot hear or understand or both parties have trouble making use of what's nourishing in the ding. Like everyone else has pointed out. Or have I read too many threads?! Maybe someone is undergoing transformation and will one day be capable of digesting that pheasant fat. Is it something one should be hungry for and nourished by but can't yet see the value?

Coincidentally, I saw my ex the other day and my bursa is now pulsating! We have yet to eat that readily available nourishment. As an aside, I can't talk her into seeing me for who I am. Her fears dominate her sight and choices with me. As a defense mechanism or self protection.

So I ask, is there something about your partner or you that resists either understanding, nourishment, or is afraid, so resists change, challenge? Or does either one of you feel the absolute need to have the upper hand? Is there a power struggle? Control issues?

All I know is, there is no bad guy or who's to blame. We all bring our junk. The best we can do is be honest, honestly work on transforming what's still raw and inedible within us or about us, and be open hearted and willing to find middle ground with those we love. And expect the same and accept when, for whatever reason, that and healing can't or won't happen. There isn't enough to go on to tell us if that fat will be eaten. Just that it's not. It's available, but to no avail.

Yi says, "in the end, good fortune." Whether that's with your partner or not, you are blessed still. Maybe surrender is in order. Nothing can be forced. And what's yours is yours. Have faith and take an honest look at your stuff. The fact that you're asking this question leads me to believe you are aware, care very much, and are will to do what it takes to have it work out. Is your partner as able and willing? Or as aware?
 

Tohpol

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Early update: not looking good. We'll see. Pretty bad day of hurtful fighting like many in the past. I asked about how to most productively deal with a fight from this morning and got Hexagram 36.5. I do understand that one, and have gotten Hexagram 36 a decent bit in the past - tired of having to deal with things that way in this relationship, which is why I was wondering if the original question's Hexagram 50.3 was truly going to be within this current relationship.
Pallesathena,

I don't have anything to add to the useful interpretations already given, but a book I read recently appeared to have some very simple but constructive ways to improve marriages and partnerships. I wonder if it might help to offer an entirely different perspective on your relationship?

It's always a good thing to know that we gave it our best shot before what seems like an inevitable end or separation. But sometimes that conflict is due to the fact that we are literally speaking different "love" languages. Such an idea is an old one but this guy's book offers a very constructive take on these conflicts and how to resolve them. There is a fundamental logic and symmetry to his suggestions based on 30 years as a marriage/relationship counsellor. It appears a lot of people have had great results in a relatively short time. The book is also applicable to family and friendships which are going through rocky periods. Breaking old patterns is the cornerstone of the book. (It's also got a mild religious undercurrent to it but not at all intrusive).

A dear friend of mine who mentioned the book in reverent tones was at his wits end for quite a while and did have considerable success after reading it. It took a while but it worked - so far. (And theirs was a VERY volatile relationship). I don't think I would have even read it otherwise.

The book is called: The Five Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts By Gary Chapman. He also has a website at:

http://www.5lovelanguages.com/

Yeah, the cheesy title makes me want to throw up as there are many books and seminars touting the same miraculous results...It's a commercial world after all....However, looking past the sales pitch there is value here. Worth a shot?

Since we get so many readings at Clarity on conflict in relationships I thought this might be something others could research too.

Good luck!
 

thisismybody

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I had a vision, as I was in between sleep and dreams this morning, of a tractor with a flame, a lit candle kind of flame, hovering over it and rain falling over the tractor on all sides (and no where else in the scene). The flame was never extinguished.

Forgiveness may be a part of 50.3. Has everything that needs to be said been said? Has every dimension of the relational problems been uncovered and solutions offered?

Maybe the deliverance of the relationship comes with pardoning some "sin" by fully holding it in view and offering it as a sacrifice so that then the nourishment of the relationship is available? Or becomes the path and way the ending of the relationship can be overcome?

I've read that when a relationship is in trouble and it ends, it is easier to move through the heart break of loss when we are able to see the cause and effects, with gracious acceptance, and use it to transform who we were and are into who we should become-- a person better able and prepared to love, serve, and relate to the beloved.
 

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