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51.2,5> 58 - do it but be prepared?

em ching

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Hello,

There are two ideas/ideals I have that I'd like to pursue. I know they are going to require hard work and I am under no illusions I don't think (well maybe some :)). I asked:

1. Should I invest time and money, or at least seriously consider doing so, into pursuing avenue A? (not for a while though)
51.2, 5 > 58

2. How long-term can I potentially make avenue B? (a scarier avenue I'm about to follow soon that I'm probably less sure in my suitability for, than avenue A (but it is already 'in the bag')
51.2,5 > 58

Quite something (the readings were only a few days apart). They are both areas I'd love to pursue, but feel dwarfed by them. Perhaps the reading is saying despite potential danger, it'd be worth it because I'd be getting out there and meeting with new people and learning from experience (exchange of 58) and that I shouldn't worry about what I lose perhaps money and inner-equilibreum wise?

Any thoughts/ experiences with this combination would be really appreciated as they are big ideas but maybe my motto should be 'Go for it!' even if I'm knocked off my feet a bit??

Thanks :)

:bows:
 

rosada

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I think these hexagrams point to the need to stay very actively involved in which ever path you choose. I don't think you can prepare totally for lies ahead here. Seems like lots of changes and adjustments, questions and feedback required.
r.
 
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em ching

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Hmm yes I have a really bad habit of flitting. Assuming the worst from one thing and so planning ahead for the next. I just want to follow what I know I can do, but it's hard when a) you're not certain what that is; b) you don't have a secure base to approach the world from (I mean that in terms of being in the right location and independent but with friends around, ie. a sorted private life (well as sorted as it can be)); and c) not being sure about what to invest in, when now's the time it seems it'll make a real mark on your future.

I'm very conscious of my weaknesses and so I no longer want to put myself in situations where I may very well be uncomfortable but then again that could be my negative voice getting too much air time as usual.

I read these as saying I have no choice but to face these challenges and potential difficulties, but that I Should Not Panic, and at least there would be more chance of meeting people rather than being cooped up at home which I feel I sorely need now: Wilhelm: with others 'learning becomes many-sided and takes on a cheerul lightness whereas there is always something one-sided and pondering about the self-tought'.

I can definitely relate to the 'hither and thither' of 51.5 at the moment though. And so I need to focus. One big venture at the time.

I suppose if I can really believe I'm capable I'll throw myself into it more and take real action towards making it all work... like you say Rosada.

Thank you :)
 

willowfox

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1. Should I invest time and money, or at least seriously consider doing so, into pursuing avenue A? (not for a while though) 51.2, 5 > 58

Line 51.2 indicates initial losses due to some kind of major problem that you will most certainly come up against, there will be no way around it, so the best thing to do, is to get out fast and then wait. In time the problem will pass and you will get back what you lost. While line 51.5 suggests that avenue A is going to prove to be a bumpy ride for you but with fortitude you can make it.
Hex 58 If you truly feel happy going down this path, then you will accept the problems joyfully as they will not faze you.

2. How long-term can I potentially make avenue B? (a scarier avenue I'm about to follow soon that I'm probably less sure in my suitability for, than avenue A (but it is already 'in the bag')
51.2,5 > 58

Long term prospects are good because you have lake over lake and therefore B will not "dry up" on you, so long term potential is very good.
 

em ching

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Thanks willowfox.

Reading what you wrote I felt that your interpretation for A would best fit B and vice versa (or at least best reflect my expectations). I'm very scared of avenue B but it is more definite than the first, and it will require more effort of will on my part as I don't think it will come as easily to me. IIt is teaching English abroad and I know it'll be exciting and I'll meet new people, but also challenging especially given my character as I shall have to perform and put myself out there more, i.e try and forget myself.

But I like the encouragement you picked out in the second Q, of lake over lake reflecting long term 'hydration' from it. So given the 58's perhaps both these avenues are viable. I know I feel enthusiastic about both, although less comfortable with B. And storms are always exciting... although dangerous so maybe saying I shouldn't get carried away and expose myself to too much and walk into it all with blind faith... I'm not invulnerable... but then I have the lakes to cushion my fall!?...(as long as I can swim)...

Avenue A is about pursuing further study, and I suppose the setback of line 2 would be the money aspect, and 51.5 could be reflecting my doubt as to whether it would be wise to commit to. But 58 definitely reflects how I am inspired by it and have met like-minded people before from following this interest. It's just not that lucrative unless you get a big dollop of fortitude ;)

Thanks very much and I feel more determined to follow both areas and even if I'm not perfectly cut out for it all, it'll add to my experinece and be perspective-making, which'll all help with making these types of decisions which need that self-knowledge.

:bows:
 
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tigerintheboat

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Shock

1. Should I invest time and money, or at least seriously consider doing so, into pursuing avenue A? (not for a while though)
51.2, 5 > 58

2. How long-term can I potentially make avenue B? (a scarier avenue I'm about to follow soon that I'm probably less sure in my suitability for, than avenue A (but it is already 'in the bag')
51.2,5 > 58

Quite something (the readings were only a few days apart). They are both areas I'd love to pursue, but feel dwarfed by them.
Em,

I hope you are well.

If I understand you, you got the same identical reading for both avenues, several days apart. To me that is Yi saying that something makes the two Avenues identical as far as your relations to them. What might do that?

A shock might do that, an upheaval or something that might cause you to reassess your life. It might be a good shock, and you might come out laughing, or so the judgement of H51 indicates. It might be a more negative shock. But it would be enough to possibly reduce the two Avenues to identical outcomes. The theme of H51 is a shock that causes a test of character. The scale of the shock is unknown, but it will be a shock.

What other clues are there in this reading? Overall, you are told to "set your house in order" and Line 2 is an uncompromisingly difficult line about danger, upheaval and waiting our difficulties to eventually recover what we have lost. Line 5 is another line about shocks, repeated shocks, but not about loss. You will have things to do other than wait, and you will have to adapt. There is danger.

If I had received this reading, I would ask questions about the nature of the shock that awaits me, and what I should do to prepare for it.

For example, you might ask "What can I do to prepare to deal with the shock described in the previous reading, lines 2 and 5." I received this H51.2 recently, and I did ask questions. (Yi was not very forthcoming, and I hope you have better luck!)

As for H58, I think of Joy and Harmonious Interaction with Others. I am not sure if that describes where you are coming from today, or where you are eventually headed, or if it has some more personal meaning with regard to the Avenues. If you are headed there, according to H51, you will have a repeated shocks first and some time in getting there. If you have it now, your serene state will be tested.

Tiger
 

em ching

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To me that is Yi saying that something makes the two Avenues identical as far as your relations to them. What might do that?


Tiger
Probably my belief that I can't do either really, and that leaves me (I feel) nowhere and with nothing (but I know that leaning on something external as provider of happiness is never a good idea and there are always other options, but at the moment these two avenues are my only dangling carrots)

Thanks for your response - the rest of what you say also makes sense. There is no doubt both avenues will be tough and following them through could potentially shatter their illusion (dangling carrot-ness that is). But maybe if I have got it in me!.... and it's all good experience...

I asked the Yi How can I be prepared for the shocks? (of avenue B the more definite of the two :eek:)

Hex 42 unchanging

Would you read this as saying just be open to whaever happens and respond with equal energy to what comes? 'For every blessing you have to bring along a pot to catch the drops of rain'.

I then asked: Definitely go down this path?
51.3,5,6 > 13

51 again! Looks like I need to brace myself then! I do have 4 months to prepare...
Looking at Lise it kind of reads like this could be a rite of passage.
Eg line 3: ...Great and often dreadful happenings give power and depth to life...
line 5: Have the guts to enter new ventures and challenges - don't panic!
line 6: Learn from others? Perhaps there will be general confusion where I'm going... 'If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs...' perhaps...
13: Fellowship sounds good! So try and intergrate and working with others will get me through...

I also asked What do I know inside (because I'm not sure whether to bow to the voice of warning (reason?) inside, or the restless adventurer in me) about this venture?

39.6
seems like it's going to be tough and it would be easier to stay at home, but 'duty calls him back into the turmoil of life' :eek:

and the last line of Lise's excellent interpretation of this line speaks especially loudly here: '...Leave your father and mother and follow me'.

Looks like I'm a goin'...

:bows:
 
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tigerintheboat

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Consistency

I asked the Yi How can I be prepared for the shocks? (of avenue B the more definite of the two )

Hex 42 unchanging

Would you read this as saying just be open to whaever happens and respond with equal energy to what comes? 'For every blessing you have to bring along a pot to catch the drops of rain'.
Yi is indicating that it will be a harvest time, sure, but that you will benefit, and you should pass on the benefits, as you can, to others. Positive thinking and goal seeking is indicated.

But as an answer to the question of how to prepare, I don't know.:confused: When I get a hexagram with no moving lines, I tend to think that I asked the wrong question. I have never read that anywhere, but that is my assumption. If Yi is responding with a static picture, with no particular advice, I wonder how that could possibly have anything to do with my life. So I look harder to see if I can make the question more specific.

I told you in a previous post I had a similar reading about a shock, and that I then asked ""What can I do to prepare to deal with the shock described in the previous reading, lines 2 and 5." Do you remember I said Yi was not very forthcoming? Well, Yi is consistent...I got H42 with a moving line (Line 2).

Since you asked generally about the shock, perhaps Yi's response is general as well...as in "the shock will benefit you and cause you to increase in being. Prepare to Grow."

Tiger
 

em ching

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Wow how weird that you also got hex 42 when asking about how to prepare for shocks!
I suppose the Yi could just be saying be generous with shocks even if they can be nasty buggers? I.e. be open to them and accept them as part of life?? And as you say: there is a growth factor to them. That which does not kill me...

42.2 (Wilhelm):
A man brings about real increase by producing in himself the conditions for it, that it, through receptivity to and love of the good. Thus the thing for which he strives comes of itself, with the inevitability of natural law. Where increase is thus in harmony with the highest laws of the universe, it cannot be prevented by any constellation of accidents. But everything depends on his not letting unexpected good fortune make him heedless; he must make it his own through inner strength an steadfastness. Then he acquires meaning before God and man, and can accomplish something for the good of the world.

So I think saying I'm (we're) not helpless in the face of shocks. That if we make an effort and think positive, we have the resources to combat them?

:rolleyes:
 

fkegan

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Hi Em,

I would take more time with your original Oracle where you got the identical hex 51.2,5 >>58 to two distinct questions. In general such an Oracle result indicates that the Yi has one answer for you no matter how many questions you may imagine to avoid it.

Hex 51 is about the Divine Thunderbolt that jolts you from your current foundation. The lines 2 and 5, central open spaces that as they change to Yang focus totally transform this doubling of trigram Thunder into the doubling of trigram Lake would indicate a Yi Oracle answer that it is not how many passages of Wilhelm you can bring up to read, rather how YOU work upon developing the local structure (line 2) and overall organization (line 5) to change what might be a totally external situation you are admiring from afar into your own circle of interactions and involvements. As they say, the rest is commentary...

Frank
 

em ching

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Hex 51 is about the Divine Thunderbolt that jolts you from your current foundation....
how YOU work upon developing the local structure (line 2) and overall organization (line 5) to change what might be a totally external situation you are admiring from afar into your own circle of interactions and involvements. As they say, the rest is commentary...

Frank
So what you're saying is that how I manage the shocks will determine whether I can make the experience in some way joyous or enriching? That I am not to be put into panic mode if I lose something (be it face or material) (line 2) rather I should try and keep my head by keeping a goal in mind even if it all seems too overwhelming? (line 5)

And as a divine thunderbolt, looks like it's coming no matter what :eek:
Or am I unnecessarily placing myself in a storm's path, because I don't know/like where I'm at at the moment...? and maybe, that is all I can do. Maybe the easy life just isn't for some pople (seems a bit silly though) or maybe we just need to get shocked so that we wake up to our 'real' selves? It's just disappointing sometimes, when we can see how good something could be if we had the ability or freedom to live it.

:bows:
 

fkegan

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How YOU work upon developing the local structure (line 2) and overall organization (line 5) makes the only difference between watching the thunderstorm through your window, being overwhelmed by the thunderbolt, or having things work out well. Any other concerns are just avoiding the task of getting to work on whatever needs to be done.
 

em ching

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Thanks Frank.
I see what you're saying - that there are things you can do during dangerous storms provided you make the effort and don't stay still and let the lighting render you dumbfounded....

I have committed to doing this - so I must believe that it's therefore the right way to go for me at the moment, and so give it my all rather than throw my hands up in defeat to the power of the storm before even giving myself a chance....

What is the definition of local structure? Does that just mean what's going on? And is it always in the lower trigram?

Hmm sounds a bit ominous:
51.2: "When the time of shock and upheaval that has robbed him of his possessions has passed, he will get them back again without going in pursuit of them."

Whereas overall organization means how you can deal with the situation? And is always in the upper trigram - which I think I've read reflects the future?

This sounds more hopeful: "Nonetheless, the shock causes no loss, because one takes care to stay in the center of movement and in this way to be spared the fate of being helplessly tossed hither and thither."

Hmm... I just get the impression that Taoism generally is about not endangering yourself because of the desires of your ego. ie. not going against the flow of your personal nature and reality, even if unsatisfying for your ego? But then, it does seem like these shocks are also a part of the life of man and thus nature, who must get out there... and challenge himself if only to realise what life is/isn't, or can/can't be for you.. But as you say, enough theorizing! More work does need to be done because surviving in a storm requires tactics. Just have to believe I'll be able to summon them :) I'm sure there's a quote about pointless worrying I could insert here, but life is full of potential - both yin and yang - so everything's a bit of a gamble... (stop theorizing Em!)...


:bows:
 
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fkegan

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You are making this all too complicated.

The I Ching is a system of elegant abstract symbolism that can be analyzed in many ways for various purposes. However, when you mix metaphors, focus upon trigram implications when the Oracle repeated the exact same result to tell you, Don't Do That, just get the message and get to work.

Line 2 of any hexagram is the legs or structure. Where you stand or what you understand.

Line 5 is the mind or overall organization or planning.

Your oracle implies strongly you know exactly what needs to be done and how to get it organized and done and that you need to get to doing that. From your reactions and questions it seems clear you know that but just prefer to avoid that clarity...
 

em ching

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Thanks for the clarification.
I guess it's just fear at this point :footinmouth:
But I suppose that's the whole point of the hex - highlighting the necessity sometimes of shock to spur us into action. And I suppose importantly when trying to avoid lightning - not deliberating (in one spot) for too long :rolleyes:


:bows:
 

em ching

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(I also need to read through Far Ranging 51... in Exploring Divination!)

There should be a Smilie for 'coincidence'.
 

tigerintheboat

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AfterThought

Em,

I suppose it is obvious, but perhaps Yi can not tell us about the nature of Shocks, because then they would not be Shocks! (and would no longer serve their purpose).

Best,
Tiger
:D
 

em ching

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That's true.
There's also a good interpretation of line 5 by Hulkskramer: 'You have already coped successfully before with the danger threatening you now. So don't worry about things to come. You have better things to do'.

That's usually always true with me :rolleyes:

:bows:
 

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