52 for disinterest

[sunnygirl]

I keep having this problem of just being disinterested in things, especially my work. I changed jobs and there is nothing wrong with this job at all but I find myself not being interested in it at all and trying to force myself to be.

I asked the yi. I really want to get to the bottom of why I am so disinterested in things lately like my job

I received

52.2.3 to 4

From this I am thinking there is a small part of me that needs to be fixed that is holding me back from enjoying things.

I asked what to do to get out of feeling this way and got

53.3.4.5 to 35

 

[lloyd]

Why I am so disinterested? I received 52.2.3 to 4
Maybe a small part of me keeps me from enjoying things?

Things cannot always be in movement (52) which is why there is restraint. Restraint is about holding back to observe, instead of participate. The Image suggests that one remains within ones ‘position’; does not overstep the boundaries of self in dealing with others.

2 is a yin line in the proper place, trying to do what is right. I’d like to quote a poem here:

THOU wouldst be loved? — then let thy heart
From its present pathway part not!
Being everything which now thou art,
Be nothing which thou art not.

So with the world thy gentle ways,
Thy grace, thy more than beauty,
Shall be an endless theme of praise,
And love — a simple duty. (E.A. Poe)

Line 3 indicates a breaking point, possibly the artificial enforcement of stillness on yourself; insincerity that should be avoided.

Hexagram 4 seems to validate what line 3 had to say, suggesting immaturity. The image text suggests that you stay closer to whom you are and line 2 above suggests that answers about your personality might be readily available.

Footnote: maybe it helps not to think of yourself as a collection of separately operating small parts?

 

[sunnygirl]

Thank you for you helpful post lloyd. It seems like I should be true to myself and not try to be something I'm not or put myself in situation where I know it isn't right for me.

 

[lloyd]

Hi sunnygirl - Don't jump to conclusions. Keep your original question (and its intentions) in mind and use it to look at the answer deeper. What will come is a next logical question to put some dots on the i's. Take it slow, don't ever over-ask I Ching.

 

[sunnygirl]

I guess I really don't get what you mean??

 

[peter2610]

Hello Sunnygirl, Hex 52.2.3 - 4 Meng
Hexagram 52 Ken is concerned with controlling impulses and influences that could endanger stability. Anthony refers to it as 'relinquishing the childish heart.' The various lines represent degrees of self-restraint.
The text for 2nd yin reads 'Keeping his calves still. He cannot rescue him whom he follows. His heart is not glad.' - Wilhelm/Baynes. As Lloyd points out, this is a yin line in a yin place, hence its position is correct - it is where it should be. However, lacking resonance with 5th yin it is restless and agitated. It follows 3rd yang, which is in an even greater state of agitation. These two moving lines represent increasing degrees of unrest. At 2nd yin the degree is moderate - the derived hexagram/Zhi Gua for this line is Hex 53 - Gradual Progress/Self Development. At 3rd yang the level of unrest is quite disruptive, calling for a strong degree of restraint - the derived hexagram for this line is Hex 23 - Splitting representing loss if self-purpose and integrity. The overall resultant hexagram 4 - Youthful Folly, represents the dangers of falling into a pit of errors when faced with the need for self restraint.
Don't be dismayed by this answer, we've all been there, I for one, could give you a detailed description of every possible error that can be made!
What this reading is asking you to do is not some 'New Age' process of 'finding your true self' but rather something that the New Age cannon does not go near, that is, it is calling for self-discipline, and a true sense of self respect based on a mature sense of responsibility to self and others. It is not calling for a self-indulgent process of 'finding my own space' that will harm your self and others but rather the exact opposite.
It's not easy, but try to restrain the unending restlessness and dissatisfaction of the demanding ego-impulses. In the end, self mastery is the only path to true freedom, and true understanding. Peter

 

[elvis]

I keep having this problem of just being disinterested in things, especially my work. I changed jobs and there is nothing wrong with this job at all but I find myself not being interested in it at all and trying to force myself to be.

...
...

From this I am thinking there is a small part of me that needs to be fixed that is holding me back from enjoying things.

Perhaps your unconscious 'knows' . For a vague, IC, assessment answer these but trying to feel the answers, let your reply 'bubble up':

Do you FEEL you are attracted more to values or to facts?

Do you FEEL you are more attracted to what was/is/will_be or more to what-could-have-been/is-not/could-be?

Do you FEEL you are more responding to events (reactive) or more instigating of events (proactive)?

 

[lloyd]

What I mean is that people often take the answer and start moving and grooving with it in different directions; forgetting the question that prompted the answer. So, keep the two together and over some time you may find deeper significances between the two.

 

[sunnygirl]

Thanks lloyd. The original question having to do with disinterest in things especially work. Getting to the real reason I am feeling this way. A job like this, I would have been thrilled with it 10 years ago. I would like to get the passion back.

 

[sunnygirl]

peter, I wonder if this means the more I master myself, the less I will feel this ways about things. This year has started a pretty intense study of my Buddhism which is a lot about focusing in the here and now.

 

[sunnygirl]

elvis, in thinking about the questions you posed I feel I am thinking more about what is and what will be but also when I think about my disinterest I think about how I used to be so interested. I think more about facts. I do feel more reactive than proactive

 

[lloyd]

I wonder if this means the more I master myself, the less I will feel ...

Hi Sunnygirl - You hit the nail on the head. But then ... there are people who just live very mental

 

[elvis]

elvis, in thinking about the questions you posed I feel I am thinking more about what is and what will be but also when I think about my disinterest I think about how I used to be so interested. I think more about facts. I do feel more reactive than proactive

The indication is an overall focus on joy but some issue in the past has elicited grief where such is indicated in your chronic disinterest, enthusiasm has given way to 'nothing'.

The overall focus is on what is/will-be, facts, reactive - this gives us a representation of the trigram of lake and tie to the emotion of joy.

When you focus on your disinterest you focus on what used to be indicating a change in this position and so a tie to the trigram of mountain and a tie to the emotion of grief (self-restraint, blocked, stopped etc).

You need to go back and identify the time of the change where such is associated with the emergence of that disinterest.

 

[lloyd]

I tried to get the essence of your suggestions. Below is as far as I got, maybe wrong ... Care to help me out?
The overall idea is joy, but an old issue gave grief (indicated by your disinterest) and turned your joy into 'nothing'. Focus on the disinterest, the change in this position and so a tie to the trigram of mountain and a tie to the emotion of grief. Go back and identify the time of the change where such is associated with the emergence of that disinterest.

 

[elvis]

The tie to mountain came from analysis of the prose covering 'disinterest' where such can show a lack in motivation. If we play by the rules then the focus is more on surprise (thunder) and joy (lake). this would tie in with some past surprise, unexpected, condition occuring that has damped the enthusiasm. The disinterest shows a response to such, it was 'depressing' in some way, there is grief present in some form. (rotate thunder, oppose the lake) - some past ideal was not achieved etc.

Thunder is associated with MOTIVATION and here there is a lack. A lack in motivation can be tied to some past event that did not develop (death, block, lost love etc etc). and so elicits grief, even if unconscious in form and manifest as 'flatness' - lack of motivation/enthusiasm.

The PARTICULAR focus on jobs, rather than life in general, indicates the issue is with such and the source is in the past dynamics of career/job development.

If one cannot remove the grief it can be turned into discernment, quality control used in considering future jobs etc that 'fit' the current persona.

If the original assessment of lake as being reflective (!) of the persona is valid then the path is into artistic/performing endevours, the MBTI category of XSFP. The important element here is on social interactions, on expansive BONDING, be it with people or some ideal. The situation here indicated there are issues with this bonding and specifically in job relationships.

 

[sunnygirl]

wow elvis. you are spot on.

About 8 years ago, I had this job that I absolutely loved. I couldn't wait to get there. I was extremely good at it.

I received a promotion and was flown on a business trip for training with a couple of peers and a manager who was my bosses girlfriend. This manager was the narcissist type that demanded to be fawned over constantly. I guess I didn't fawn enough as after that trip, she hated me. I was glad I didn't work for her but 3 weeks later, out of the blue I was fired. My boss said other managers were complaining about me. It was her doing the complaining.

I was totally floored and shocked. My team was shocked too. Let's say it really shook my confidence and I have no trust for any work relationships ever since then.

I have tried to move past it but haven't found the joy in work since then.

 

[lloyd]

Metaphors

Hi elvis - I go along with your reading and much of what you wrote, and I don’t think we contradict each other that much. However, you lose me when you write that in such a situation one should “focus on the disinterest” (or what you have called the: “nothing”). If the disinterest (nothing) is a symptom, why not go to the core of the grief about jobs, or what sunnygirl calls: “Getting to the real reason I am feeling this way (about jobs)”?

I have similar problems of understanding, when people (whose I Ching journey brings them partly into themselves) are given the advice to go deeply into their “Selves” in order to find answers; which obviously pre-supposes knowing the self if solutions are to be found at all.
Going into “nothing” or into the mysteries of what “self” may or may not be
That is where for me the actual situation that generated the question becomes more significant as the source for a relevant and possibly more rewarding questioning approach.
Knowing the (S)self means complete (Divine, spiritual) realization. The few on this planet who have reached THAT may well be beyond the need of using I Ching.

 

[meng]

Interesting thread.

Sunny, it's difficult for someone who flies on inspiration to be satisfied in a job that squats like a mountain.

I think your earlier disappointment has stolen your belief. Belief in "the system - mountain" and in yourself (your foundation). And without those beliefs you feel immobile, like a mountain.

So, either you have to resign to being a mountain, or take the risks of being a fool, and seeking the bliss, you once tasted, before it was was snatched away from you. Maybe you have to create your own somehow, or work with fresh and visionary people. Your joy is still there. Trusting is the hard part. But what choice do you have?

 

[elvis]

wow elvis. you are spot on.
....
I have tried to move past it but haven't found the joy in work since then.

you need to work this through - any sort of grief process has steps (see Elizabeth Kubler-Ross' work) and the need here is to move into acceptance such that you can move on. You obviously 'loved' that job and so getting suddenly fired etc is like experiencing a death, a loss of a loved one etc. and you dont want that to happen again, and so conserve 'wasting energy'.

Right now in your unconscious that event appears to be too universal in form and you are applying it to ALL jobs when it was a SPECIFIC problem with a SPECIFIC person. (a problem with the unconscious is that it symmetric in nature and can lack precision - it can generalise and confuse classes with instances or more so fails to differentiate them! - if the pain is strong then your consciousness will repress such pain and it will 'seep' into your daily life such as feelings of 'disinterest' etc. where you can not consciously identify what is going on. The Emotional I Ching work can aid in such issues.)

One step is to consider all aspects of that job and see what you can learn from the experience in the form of helping you be more discerning about interactions etc - there are elements still 'bugging' you so work those through.

These insights can aid you in assessing current job contexts and what to avoid or encourage.

The main point is that we have clearly identified the source of the problem and that needs to now be worked through - each situation is NOT that original one, it can be at the class level and one has to be careful in not confusing an instance of a class with a class; you seem to be unconsciously saying 'whats the use, the same will happen' - KNOWING what can happen aids in you developing your discernment skills to avoid such events and/or redirecting that negative energy into something positive.

Good Luck ;-)

 

[elvis]

Hi elvis - I go along with your reading and much of what you wrote, and I don’t think we contradict each other that much. However, you lose me when you write that in such a situation one should “focus on the disinterest” (or what you have called the: “nothing”). If the disinterest (nothing) is a symptom, why not go to the core of the grief about jobs, or what sunnygirl calls: “Getting to the real reason I am feeling this way (about jobs)”?

We needed to identify the specific event that has led to the 'compensation' process. The EIC focus is on the VAGUE and so lots of 'waving of hands' (holistic, parallel, intuitive dynamics) as we zero-in on the issue. The core reason was NOT identified until we delved deeper and found out it was about a loved job suddenly lost - it could have been something else suddenly lost but the overall focus seemed to cover job/career.

I have similar problems of understanding, when people (whose I Ching journey brings them partly into themselves) are given the advice to go deeply into their “Selves” in order to find answers; which obviously pre-supposes knowing the self if solutions are to be found at all.

;-) the EIC questions are focused on communicating with the unconscious and so that part of us that works holistically, intuitively. It can lack precision but emotional assessments are often good and can aid in revealing what consciousness is trying to repress (due to it all being 'taboo' or 'inappropriate at this time'). Our emotions look out for No1. Our consciousness works top-down, is socialised, and will often override emotional needs etc. At the same time our consciousness is able to identify 'discomfort' and seek out 'why?' - it can 'self-reference' and work on what it is repressing!

The IDM work has brought out the nature of wholes working unconsciously and as such, through XORing, can extract details never thought possible before where once revealed these sorts of details can elicit a 'sheepish' acknowledgement from consciousness that that IS being covered up and DOES need 'action' to resolve the issue.

 

[lloyd]

Hi elvis – I hear where you come from. But it is not in my nature to wear myself out with modern classifications and methods of the somewhat occult world I’m born in.
I grant you your angle, but see it as one among various others. The word psychology, as "study of the soul," was probably coined mid-16 century. But as Rutt points out: " ... the psychological element as (recognized by Jung) was involved in the I Ching process from early times".
So, we may make choices there, and for me I Ching contains/fulfils all functions that modern psychology and fancy healing methods have on offer (remembering also Chuang Tzu: Mind has its limits, where knowledge has none).
Besides, given (for instance) Fromm’s book(s) on western psychology, I tend to stick with earlier forms of ‘soul seeking’, mostly through reading poetry, literature, mythology and ... the I Ching

 

[elvis]

The I Ching reflects the dynamics of our brains in creation of meaning and the mediation of such through use of languages - as such it reflects all that you speak of, and more. The issues are then in precision - the play of asymmetry and symmetry, of directed thinking that is mechanistic, partial, serial vs mythic thinking that is organic, holistic, parallel.

We can use directed to refine mythic, words to refine sensory experiences and the IC can cover all of that as it can introduce mythic elements into directed thinking, we can use the parallel to refine the serial as we can the serial to refine the parallel - overall this allows for reason to aid in refinement of intuition, and visa versa, and so increase overall wisdom.

It ultimately comes down to what is the 'best fit' for some given context.

 

[lloyd]

As written before, I'll grant you your "best fit", but know that there are other "best fits".
Problems might rise if you (or I) would hit others over the head with your best fit

 

[sunnygirl]

Going into “nothing” or into the mysteries of what “self” may or may not be
That is where for me the actual situation that generated the question becomes more significant as the source for a relevant and possibly more rewarding questioning approach.
Knowing the (S)self means complete (Divine, spiritual) realization. The few on this planet who have reached THAT may well be beyond the need of using I Ching.

Does this mean a further set of questions that may be helpful to the situation?

 

[sunnygirl]

Interesting thread.

Sunny, it's difficult for someone who flies on inspiration to be satisfied in a job that squats like a mountain.

I think your earlier disappointment has stolen your belief. Belief in "the system - mountain" and in yourself (your foundation). And without those beliefs you feel immobile, like a mountain.

So, either you have to resign to being a mountain, or take the risks of being a fool, and seeking the bliss, you once tasted, before it was was snatched away from you. Maybe you have to create your own somehow, or work with fresh and visionary people. Your joy is still there. Trusting is the hard part. But what choice do you have?

I think it's safer to stay in the job that squats like a mountain.

I have been going along with the system and not making waves since then. I tend to notice most organizations have that similar way about them. There isn't anything to trust about them. A job I had later eliminated our department and lied to us for months about it. I haven't found too many fresh or visionary people to work with. They seem more about doing their job and going home or playing political games. Maybe I would be better off having my own business like a shop or something.

I notice after I leave a job, nobody wants to keep in touch. While I am there, they act like best friends but after, they stop contact. It is so fake and I know it.

Maybe before I got fired, I was naive about the work world and that naiveté helped me forge ahead and be a superstar.

 

[sunnygirl]

If one cannot remove the grief it can be turned into discernment, quality control used in considering future jobs etc that 'fit' the current persona.

If the original assessment of lake as being reflective (!) of the persona is valid then the path is into artistic/performing endevours, the MBTI category of XSFP. The important element here is on social interactions, on expansive BONDING, be it with people or some ideal. The situation here indicated there are issues with this bonding and specifically in job relationships.

Maybe I should be more discerning than I am but I feel I am. I am still choosing boring jobs. Bonding within a job with people other than the superficial just doesn't happen for me. People at my work think I am great and love working with me because I appear to have so much enthusiasm but it is forced and fake a lot of the time.

Where do I go from here?

Maybe my work is something I am just not considering because it would be too much of a risk?

 

[elvis]

Maybe I should be more discerning than I am but I feel I am. I am still choosing boring jobs. Bonding within a job with people other than the superficial just doesn't happen for me. People at my work think I am great and love working with me because I appear to have so much enthusiasm but it is forced and fake a lot of the time.

Where do I go from here?

You need to work through the original incident and identify what continues to upset you unconsciously. What specifically causes sensation of being betrayed etc? Understand the different motives/contexts of the others involved.

Working it through should resolve issues and your disinterest start to change to becoming interested spontaneously, not faked.

Set down a specific time to do this. Write things down or record your thoughts etc. and play them back. Obviously you did not get to the level of acceptance where such enables you to move on without any baggage. If you suddenly find an overwhelming need to be angry or cry or laugh, do so as it is all part of the tension release - but don't wallow, the set time should be specific about stopping for the moment; let the unconscious process the data, forget about it until the next time. Eventually you will find you don't need it anymore, your disinterest is no longer noticeable, your work motivation etc is obviously spontaneous (and so more tension release, faking such takes up a lot of energy!)

The I Ching as a language can be used to map out the steps of grief and so one can work through each to find any sticking points that need to be dealt with - the steps are:

DENIAL - the 'death' did not happen.

Rejection - WATER [Water] (BOUND)

BARGAIN - Lets find a way to solve this problem, restore the past.

Surprise/Anticipation - THUNDER/WIND [Wood] (BIND)

ANGER - anger. (context replacement)

Anger/Joy(Sex) - HEAVEN/LAKE [Metal] (BOND/BLEND)

DESPAIR/DEPRESSION - sadness etc. (context coexist)

Fear/Sadness - EARTH/MOUNTAIN [Earth] (BOND/BLEND)

ACCEPTANCE - incorporate the event into one's world image and move on.

Acceptance - FIRE [Fire] (BOUND)

Working through details will automatically start a healing process such that your original joy will start to re-emerge in its spontaneous form - as that happens it demonstrates one has moved into the acceptance position. Since we are focused on the unconscious there is no formal announcement of 'all is now fine', more so you find you no longer notice disinterest as an issue any more. Our symmetric element in our brains only notices imbalance and that is what causes our emotions to 'raise flags' that can elicit in a consciousness that is repressing things a 'casual' noting of some apparent little problem/discomfort. See the example of this experience of 'discomfort', for no apparent reason, in the EIC FAQ Example section.

Now you are aware of the source of the problem you can work on that to lead into healing and so acceptance.

BTW - if you find a problem in going through events forwards in time, run it all as a film going backwards. THEN go forwards.

 

[meng]

I notice after I leave a job, nobody wants to keep in touch. While I am there, they act like best friends but after, they stop contact. It is so fake and I know it.

That's completely normal and shouldn't be taken personally, even though it's kinda hard not to. Those you leave behind feel awkward and their loyalties divided. Their own survival comes first. A harsh reality to face if you feel their boss has harmed you. It could feel as if they're traitors. All this stuff can stew and/or stagnates in us. It's unhealthy to determine to linger there. Candidly, your last post gave me that impression. Dangerous obsession, to hold onto dead things. Need to awaken that spark again, and leave the gloom behind.

 

[meng]

Need to awaken that spark again, and leave the gloom behind.

Whichever you choose, you introduce into your next cycle. Which would you rather live with?

 

[lloyd]

Does this mean a further set of questions that may be helpful to the situation?

Hard to say. What works best for me is to let an answer sink in and then follow up with one relevant next question, based on the conclusion of the answer I recieved (if found to be valid). But mind you, sometimes I take days (or even weeks) to let the answer sink in (life). My guess is that impatience is our worst enemy; certainly in working with I Ching.
In any case, do not force yourself to come to conclusions, take it slow ..