52. Ken / Keeping Still, Mountain

[frank_r]

may I give this a try?
I think that a solid base (mountain) is what equalizes the perceived differences in views of adornment and pure beauty; it puts the 2 aspects of beauty (hex.22) on equal ground (hex.15) and keeps them in proportion . . perhaps looking on things with a mind hard to move, makes it easier to balance the scales between outer/inner, facade/essence

how does that sound?
rodaki

Maybe something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01wOhgg27dM

 

[rodaki]

Frank, i can't get to the video you posted . . what was it?

"how we enter 52" . . hmm . . I'd say recently I entered 52 because of a shock (remember 51.2? sent me running for the hills, needing some grounding) but I guess you're thinking more in terms of 22, right? Figuratively speaking, I'd say upon seeing the fire in the foot of the mountain, get off your/mine/whoever's fast moving, flashing mindset and focus on the elusive flames -they will show the entrance to the temple (I remember Charly describing trigram mountain as a gate) . .
maybe follow the trace of that burning "Pot of Herbs"? but don't let them intoxicate you, keep your feet on the ground
perhaps not much help in terms of real life experience but this no one can provide but you

rodaki

 

[rodaki]

Maybe something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01wOhgg27dM

lol!

 

[maremaria]

... but I guess you're thinking more in terms of 22, right?

No , I was thinking (alound , lol) about a proccess that starts at the 52.1>22 entrance and finish at the 52.6 >15 exit In the context of a personal experience.

But nice to read your experience with 52 though


Frank, what a funny video.

 

[my_key]

Sometimes, when I get a line and I feel exactly what it means, I find myself , struggling to put it into words. Its funny but its what Martin says. The idea is there even without words.

Rodaki

I know i have felt like this as well. Intuitively the juices have bubbled together giving a sense of what "it" is all about. The answer has not come alone from the words, the images, the symbology the trigrams, the hexagram lines but from a place beyond all these and if we had allowed ourselves to be held back by concentrating on any one of these we would not have reached the sense of appreciation that we have of the answer. When i try to write the appreciation down in words they seem to have missed something out. Even if I try to draw the appreciation it never conveys the same clarity. Similarly the words and the picture together while in themselves or together are beautiful and meaningful are in a sense lacking.

I guess i'm echoing what Martin was saying here

I think the problem here is that the idea is put into words and then what can happen is that we forget the idea after a while and only remember the words ..
"Transformation" yes, but what does that mean? Only the empty vehicle of the word remains. The meaning has left.

So somehow we have to learn again to stay with the idea as it is, before it is put into words. I say "again" because I think that children can stay with ideas quite easily.
But then comes "education" and language become very important. Too important.
As grownups we don't trust or believe meaning if we can't catch it with words, with the "hands" of the mind.
Language is great but there can be too much of it.

We do lose that wonderful place that we had as kids where everything is magical. I suppose that when we really connect with the Yi we have stepped back into that magic in some way.

Perhaps Carl Jung hit the nail on the head ( Thanks Janice - nice post)
"Knowledge does not enrich us, it removes us more and more from the mythic world in which were were once at home by right of birth."

If we try to hard to gain the knowledge of any IC reading through the words, the symbols, the images etc then we are not enriched as much as we could be by just dissolving into the essence of the whole thing.

Indeed is this the stillness and magical place of 52.6?

Mike

 

[charly]

That is the best reason I ever heard why not to argue about words!!!
...
We I Ching diviners must be people who like to do things the hard way. We started out by not understanding the I Ching... But one thing I do know for sure is that we have more in common than what separates us, because only a certain type of mind would persist in something like this.

Barbra:

I'm not polemizing about words but about principles, mainly life and freedom. I hold the right to read the remnant of an old practice without submissiveness to the received interested tradition but being loyal with the text.

And one of the things that I believe can made understandable the text is to read it whithout prejudices not putting in the text things that there are not in it.

In my case, another thing that helps is the conviction that diviners were a guild and YI users a great brotherhood.

I can't agree more with you.

Yours,

Charly

 

[rodaki]

hi Mike

perhaps you're right, no words needed for this -and what Maria says in that quotation
. . but i still enjoy playing around with ideas and words, even if often with no elegant results and I'd like to believe that the potential of words being as real, as real as images or sounds, or movement, or silence, is there.
Elusive and seemingly unreachable, but to my mind, there . .
Or maybe I'm being too headstrong and butting fences?
not sure

rodaki

 

[charly]

... Figuratively speaking, I'd say upon seeing the fire in the foot of the mountain, get off your/mine/whoever's fast moving, flashing mindset and focus on the elusive flames -they will show the entrance to the temple...

Dora:

Much people believe that mountais are gates. Gates to the underworld, to the otherworld, to the wondrous. But they are living doors that allow the pass to whom come with a noble heart. Mountains are also natural shrines alway put under the guard of a God or Goddess, sometimes more than one.

Of course, mountains and ideas about them, worshiping mountais, are earlier than all written text, Yi included. The known YI is a crossroad of old different traditions mainly oral, few written, full of remnants of rites and myths, of customs and believes, of strange numbers and strokes, with a little touch of Philosophy and Propaganda.

A book sometimes esoteric edited by a guild of diviners for the use later diviners.

We are more primitive, less rational, than we like to believe.

Yours,

Charly

 

[charly]

...
Not only are you releasing tension in each area of the body, but also unwanted emotions,as well as ongoing chatter and thoughts running through your mind.

To climb the mountain in a meditation, we need to lighten our load, physically, mentally, emotinally and spiritually. Each time we rest, we trust our intuitive voice (this is discovered with a moment of silence for each body area) of what we must leave behind. As we reach the top, we experience an inner shift.....opening the mind's eye. .

Janice:

The EYE of MIND, maybe this is the reason why the gyt of GEN has only one EYE. From long ago the EYE is believed as not only perciving images from the outer world but also from our inner experience, among other the experience of our own body,the experience of each part of our body.

The EYE used to be depicted projecting light and many times representig God / Goddess, sometimes one divinity, sometimes one among other. Also can be our own inner demon, our own divinity, the gy or girls that speaks when we «divinate».

From an animistic viewpoint each part of our body is / has his ouw divnity demanding to be honored.

The body as a church is applied mainly to women for their generative rol, the womb being the first sacred chalice.

the technique of focusing progressively each part of the body is maybe pagan for the inherent politeism. The attitude of revering each part of the own body, or whatever body we can love, was always motivo of suspicion by rulers, governs and all sort of power beareers because of the high grade of consciousness it promotes.

And consciousness is the worst enemy of tyranny.
each part of the body is a divinity, each part is a shrine, each revered, worshiped, honored.

Lines 1 to 5: honor each part of the body.

Line 6: ... and do it with kindheartness, without rudeness.


All the best, an have a good St. Valentine.

Charly

 

[maremaria]

... The answer has not come alone from the words, the images, the symbology the trigrams, the hexagram lines but from a place beyond all these and if we had allowed ourselves to be held back by concentrating on any one of these we would not have reached the sense of appreciation that we have of the answer. When i try to write the appreciation down in words they seem to have missed something out. Even if I try to draw the appreciation it never conveys the same clarity. Similarly the words and the picture together while in themselves or together are beautiful and meaningful are in a sense lacking.

Yes, something is missing. When we inteprent images of the mind the result is "something like this" but it is not IT.

Some days ago I was searching something about Pollock.
He said once :

When I am in my painting, I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It is only after a sort of 'get acquainted' period that I see what I have been about. I have no fear of making changes, destroying the image, etc., because the painting has a life of its own. I try to let it come through. It is only when I lose contact with the painting that the result is a mess. Otherwise there is pure harmony, an easy give and take, and the painting comes out well.

Some people shouting photos while he was working they said

A dripping wet canvas covered the entire floor. ... There was complete silence. ... Pollock looked at the painting. Then, unexpectedly, he picked up can and paint brush and started to move around the canvas. It was as if he suddenly realized the painting was not finished. His movements, slow at first, gradually became faster and more dance like as he flung black, white, and rust colored paint onto the canvas. He completely forgot that Lee and I were there; he did not seem to hear the click of the camera shutter. ... My photography session lasted as long as he kept painting, perhaps half an hour. In all that time, Pollock did not stop. How could one keep up this level of activity? Finally, he said "This is it."

Words are useful and essential to communicate and reading both sides, the painter's and the objervers, we get an idea. But is it just this ? Something is missing, isn't it.

 

[ginnie]

Why/how of 52

52.1>22, is the brain preoccupied with the external world: the people we know and our situations, the world of appearances.

52.6>15 means that thinking has stopped. A spaciousness has opened within, and the external world of appearances has been forgotten. We know if we ask for peace, we shall be given peace. And we shall be able to bring peace of mind to others, no matter what we decide to do -- act or not act, think or not think. That is 52.6>15 in all its munificence, its abundance.

 

[ginnie]

How we exit

Well, we may have set a timer for our sitting meditation, and when it goes off, we get up!

Or the signal may be more from within, something "occurs" to us about something. It is something important that we didn't see before.

Some people do walking or moving meditations, like T'ai Chi. The essence of 52 is a stilling of the mind. One does not have to be sitting down.

 

[ravenstar]

Janice:

The EYE of MIND, maybe this is the reason why the gyt of GEN has only one EYE. From long ago the EYE is believed as not only perciving images from the outer world but also from our inner experience, among other the experience of our own body,the experience of each part of our body.

The EYE used to be depicted projecting light and many times representig God / Goddess, sometimes one divinity, sometimes one among other. Also can be our own inner demon, our own divinity, the gy or girls that speaks when we «divinate».

From an animistic viewpoint each part of our body is / has his ouw divnity demanding to be honored.

The body as a church is applied mainly to women for their generative rol, the womb being the first sacred chalice.

the technique of focusing progressively each part of the body is maybe pagan for the inherent politeism. The attitude of revering each part of the own body, or whatever body we can love, was always motivo of suspicion by rulers, governs and all sort of power beareers because of the high grade of consciousness it promotes.

And consciousness is the worst enemy of tyranny.
each part of the body is a divinity, each part is a shrine, each revered, worshiped, honored.

Lines 1 to 5: honor each part of the body.

Line 6: ... and do it with kindheartness, without rudeness.


All the best, an have a good St. Valentine.

Charly

You have a great Valentines too Charly! And yes I believe too Lines 1 to 5 are honoring the body. Line 6 as well 'without judgement'. We all once lived a magical perfect world but then we started judging it. The secret is that it's easy to get back to.....we just have to accept that everything in our lives is fine. When we find this place, the true meaning of symbolic sight arises, we see with a new eye, the mountain is no longer a mountain but a projection of the Self.....a higher network of symmetries, analogies and communion with the infinite.

The mind that is focused on self awareness is centered, still, poised and confident. The mind that strays from this center runs frantically this way and that....finding infinite things to worry about until it becomes unbalanced. Self-pity, anger, resentment all invite self destruction for they run counter to the very nature of universal law....a law that is seen as action and reaction. Being consciousness opens the way to a higher state of being.

Many have said the dynamic power of the 'I AM' principle is said to free us to work with our own consciousness in meditation and reflection. Have any of us ever asked the question, Who Am I? And as we seek to learn this question we often come with contradcitions that suggest each of us is more than one person. Can it be that the identity you and I seek is actually a pair of identities? Two dual natures coexisting in one being, two totally opposite natures with different colors and shades? Are we not a reflection and essence of all life and like Nature, we embody both the positive and negative forces of creation and destruction? So how do we harness our dual nature? Is is by being aware that we are not one, but two distinct beings? As I wrote this an image of a flute came to mind......a flute is a phallic symbol, masculine yet its sound is feminine. The drum has deep masculine sounds but its shape is feminine. So how do we harness our dual nature and find a firm footing as the flute and the drum?

There is an energy, a force that embraces all opposites and contains everything that is and can be. When we want to change our consciousness we are in fact seeking to make a marriage, a union that we must give attention to and do our best to make it equal and complete. This cannot come about if we are confused about our desires and purposes. This marriage is about making a clear decision and coming to the point. of giving attention to wanting something and asking for it. Marriage is about giving of ourselves wholehartedly to. If we doubt or hesitate this will distract us from our goal and jeopardize the marriage. How do we prevent this? By being in charge, by taking charge of our lives and knowing that we have the power to do it. It is impoirtant to focus inwardly to a place of inner peace...our own inner temple where we can free our thoughts let our mind relax and envision what we want.

Our instincts tells us we possess everything our heart's desire but our five senses deny this as well as our own disbeliefs.....these limit and judges our progress. Meditation, whether lying down or dancing, listening to music helps to enlarge our field of awareness, it can draw the things we want toward us.....we can lower the barriers that have help them from us and we will attract other things as well.

The body as a church is applied mainly to women for their generative rol, the womb being the first sacred chalice.

Mountains have caves and caves stand for our Spiritual Center, the heart. The mountain peak is then inversed or transferred to the 'inside'....we wind our way slowly downward toward the hollow floor. Here we listen to the 'wise one', the Master, and the Master is YOU.

The EYE and its profound ability to transfix upon an object (parts of the body, a new job, a new car, a relationship etc.) breaks through and transcends what is familiar and establishes a relationship or a direct encounter with whatever we are visualizing.

Gee, somebody must have spiked my coffee huh?

I'll end this here, and again wish you the best Valentines day ever!

ravenstar

 

[my_key]

hi Mike

perhaps you're right, no words needed for this -and what Maria says in that quotation
. . but i still enjoy playing around with ideas and words, even if often with no elegant results and I'd like to believe that the potential of words being as real, as real as images or sounds, or movement, or silence, is there.
Elusive and seemingly unreachable, but to my mind, there . .
Or maybe I'm being too headstrong and butting fences?
not sure

rodaki

Maremarie

Yes, something is missing. When we inteprent images of the mind the result is "something like this" but it is not IT. ...................
Words are useful and essential to communicate and reading both sides, the painter's and the objervers, we get an idea. But is it just this ? Something is missing, isn't it.

It is important to play around with the ideas and words and images. I know I used teh word missing before, but I'm not sure that is the best word that I could have used. The outcome is the outcome and each it has it's own elegance, it's own communication. The outcome with the "full connection" is different, it may be that the difference comes to us as a sense of something missing....but which is the right? , which is the wrong? It's a bit like the final Pollock comment after his creative episode. (It sounds from the photographers account very much like he had gone into some sort of creative trance and was really in the zone. ) "This is it" - the painting process had twisted and turned by whatever means and the outcome was the outcome. If he had stopped 5 minuites before and said "This is it" then that would have been it . Was something missing? Was it right? Was it wrong? No in every case. It was complete and communicated the sense and all that the painter needed to show. Each painting is a masterpiece in their own right.
Or is this just a load of Pollocks?( I'm getting this one in before someone else is tempted !!!)
Honour it for what it is. As Charly and Janice have said - without rudeness, without judgement.

Love and Hugs to everyone on Valentines day

Mike

 

[maremaria]

Mike, I agree that’s its important to play around with the ideas and words and images. This is what we do here . We communicate , we share , we learn from each other. I wasn’t judging the outcome. It has its value, as it is. But ,imo, those tools have its limitations. Its not a matter of wrong or right. This is the way it is.

My point and the reason I quoted those two views, is that we think in images and feelings and in order to communicate that to others we have to “translate” them. I think that during that process some information are lost. And the other side, the receiver of that message, translates the message to images and feelings based on his/hers experience. I don’t believe that the “mental image” of the sender is exactly the same with the “mental image” of the receiver. I’m not saying its right or wrong, more or less valuable, just it is different. That’s why , I believe that something is missing , But maybe I’m wrong.

Maria

 

[ravenstar]

Good morning Mike, maremaria and All, Happy Valentines! It's the beginning of a new day in my neck of the woods and as I've read your comments and allowed synchronicity and intuition to work......these pictures, images are what I was shown..

Originally posted by my_key - It is important to play around with the ideas and words and images.

This image seems in keeping with your idea Mike.

Originally posted by ravenstar - When we want to change our consciousness we are in fact seeking to make a marriage, a union that we must give attention to and do our best to make it equal and complete.

Originally posted by charly - The EYE of MIND, maybe this is the reason why the gyt of GEN has only one EYE. From long ago the EYE is believed as not only perciving images from the outer world but also from our inner experience, among other the experience of our own body,the experience of each part of our body.

Originally posted by charly - each part of the body is a divinity, each part is a shrine, each revered, worshiped, honored.

When we are at a receptive level, we can open ourselves to images and feelings that surround our illness. For example...

In meditation, as we travel through the body, tensing and relaxing each area, it helps to release pressure from tight areas, it brings blood to that area that needs nutrience and cleansing....it brings energy to tired areas.

Remember the movie of journeying through the body (not sure of actual name)....it was a fascinating discovery and imagery of how the inner body works. I also remember the many stories and cd's of tTe Magic School Bus....one was journeying into one of the student's body to find the source of his sore throat. (I think I enjoyed it more than my kids when they were young)

Have a wonderful day everyone!

ravenstar

 

[martin]

My point and the reason I quoted those two views, is that we think in images and feelings and in order to communicate that to others we have to “translate” them. I think that during that process some information are lost. And the other side, the receiver of that message, translates the message to images and feelings based on his/hers experience. I don’t believe that the “mental image” of the sender is exactly the same with the “mental image” of the receiver. I’m not saying its right or wrong, more or less valuable, just it is different. That’s why , I believe that something is missing , But maybe I’m wrong.

Well yes, nothing wrong with words and images but if people are not "on the same wavelength" no amount of talking or imaging is going to help much.

Sometimes with friends that are on the same wavelength, it's like understanding happens before the words reach the other. Words are still useful to verify the understanding or maybe add some details but they don't carry the essential message.
It's like lightning, you see it before you hear it. The light of understanding travels much faster than the sound of language.

Liked what you wrote about Pollock.

 

[my_key]

This image seems in keeping with your idea Mike.

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

 

[ginnie]

Isn't it exactly so

Sometimes with friends that are on the same wavelength, it's like understanding happens before the words reach the other. Words are still useful to verify the understanding or maybe add some details but they don't carry the essential message.
It's like lightning, you see it before you hear it. The light of understanding travels much faster than the sound of language.

Maybe that is because we are all still inside the Mind of God even though we don't think we could be . . . most of the time, speaking different "languages" as we do.

 

[knotxx]

I have a small slightly silly coda to this interesting thread. A while ago, to learn more about the i ching, I tried to pick NFL football games with it. I did not care about the outcome of the games at all (I wasn't betting or anything) so I thought it would be a relatively untainted-by-my-feelings way to learn. I'd ask the yi how the game would go for each team, and then try to guess which hexagram meant "winner"--and then after try to figure out which one really DID mean winner.

I learned a surprising amount doing this, and had fun. But what made the biggest impression on me was that the team with a 52 always won. 52 did not initially seem like the best hex for a football game where you're trying to move the ball down the field, but 52 beat any other hexagram in my little game, consistently. I think of that hexagram now as the 'in the zone' hexagram--like maremaria's example of Pollock. "When it is time to stop, then stop./When it is time to advance, then advance."

 

[meng]

knot, thanks for sharing your observations on that. 52, very interesting.