54.1.4

[Lola1986]

Hi all, have been using the iching for a wee while but still very much getting the hang of it and definitely abuse it in the sense of asking many questions in a row and perhaps not giving it enough time in between. Trying to stop doing that! Anyway, most of them have been about a complicated relationship with someone. We were together for 1 1/2 years and then I split up with him, bad communication and a lot of me feeling taken for granted PLUS his interest in other women/desire to have a more open relationship made the other things even worse, we didn't have a good base of trust although actually in practice we were exclusive. So...cut a long story short we seem to be on the brink of re-kindling things after a not so long but quite painful 6 week break. He initiated this and is sort of definitely talking the talk, we'll see about walking the walk with regards a change in his attitude. We have had two big talks and a lot of emails, so much has been aired, and it's sort of can we start again/rebuild. Much of the power, it has felt until now, has been with him (me wanting more, me not having my needs met) but this does feel different (at least at this moment) because he is the one who is most keen to re-start.
So I recently asked two questions. The first:
Is it beneficial for me to get back together with X now?
Answer 35.5.6 changing to 45 gathering.
Am a little confused by this... like go ahead but know that it might not work out? Or, you seem to be going ahead (as in that is the situation) but then something?? go ahead but be prepared to go with the flow?

I then asked a more open one:
What is the best thing to do with regards X?
And got:

And finally, I asked
What if I suggested having a fling before we settle down? (This was badly worded...I guess I meant if I am attracted to someone else and so is he then maybe I could suggest we both do some experiment and see what happens before we make an ageement to exclusivity. It's been very heavy between us and in some way we both desire others in a sort of sexual way, simply because of the simplicity of it, but that doesn't mean we don't want to also be together)
54, 1, 4 - 7, the army
Confused by this as well. I could do this, it would probably be a mistake, but in the end it would result, or lead to good discussions about boundaries? Or? That unless there are some strict boundaries in place this will be no good?

I realise these are confusing times/questions. And that I've probably asked too many. I also realise, maybe accept, that in a long long term way, perhaps this person and I will not work out. But there is also a lot of love and joy between us now, and a desire to try it out. I also fear being badly hurt (again), and badly hurting him (there is respect between us, he is not my enemy). Any insights would be most welcome, on any or all of the questions! As well as any advice about what kind of question I maybe should be asking.
blessings and thanks in advance!

 

[Trojina]

So I recently asked two questions. The first:
Is it beneficial for me to get back together with X now?
Answer 35.5.6 changing to 45 gathering.
Am a little confused by this... like go ahead but know that it might not work out? Or, you seem to be going ahead (as in that is the situation) but then something?? go ahead but be prepared to go with the flow?

I think this is very much a description of what getting back together is like. There's opportunity (35) to recommit fully (45) but will it be wholly taken ? There's the promise, the opportunity what will you both do with it ? Line 5 says not to take gain and loss to heart, how can that apply here do you think ? Often I find this is a line of consolation following loss. Line 6 shows it's really good to put vigour and energy into reforms for a while but don't go on in that sort of 'do or die' mode, you could take it too far.

The thing that comes to my mind is can a leopard change it's spots ? He can try, especially when there's the exciting time of getting back together following break up to give him the drive, the willpower to change yet Yi is saying this is only good so far. That burst of determination is great to get things back on the right foot but a relationship can't continue long term just on that. Moreover trying always to have this urge to renovate a situation will at some point become inappropriate.

I recently got 35.6 for going to the gym and I took it that yes this urge to get fit was good, a forceful taking of action due to the wish to get fit, but the line says there is shame in 'constancy'.


Taking Hilary's translation from wiki line 5 and line 6


'Regrets vanish.
Let go, gain, no cares.
Going on, good fortune, nothing that does not bring harvest.'(line 5)
'Prospering, your horns.(line 6)
Hold fast, use it to subjugate the capital.
Danger, good fortune, not a mistake.
Constancy, shame.'

Hilary sometimes runs the lines together like this to see the story, it can help more than reading the lines separately.

Now it's easy to see how line could apply to my gym efforts fit line 6. Yes I began full of determination to get fit and that's a good thing that drove me forward however if I went on and on with that level of determination using horns to discipline my body that would be shame in constancy because I would do harm to my body b eing older and having various injuries etc. How can that apply to him and you ?

As I said I think more is needed than just that initial push to be together again. Can he keep up with his intentions ? You said

. We were together for 1 1/2 years and then I split up with him, bad communication and a lot of me feeling taken for granted PLUS his interest in other women/desire to have a more open relationship made the other things even worse, we didn't have a good base of trust although actually in practice we were exclusive

It's possible if he wanted an open relationship and showed interest in other women he may not be able to quash that part of him for long past the initial push to commit to you. I mean it's a pretty big thing isn't it and wouldn't be acceptable to most women. I do think there's some danger he could revert back to old ways and that would be exhausting for you. He may not but line 6 does say he can't, you both can't keep up the level of intensity you have now. Remember while getting back together is exciting there's then everyday life, ordinary times.


In a nutshell this answer is not telling you what to do, it's showing you how it is and what's at stake. 45 is a lovely one for putting all your eggs in one another's baskets. When you commit like that it hurts to meet anything less than full commitment back. This cast doesn't say he won't commit as he says, it just leaves a question mark over it. I think line 5 asks you to really try not to worry, it's all okay, it will fall out okay and even if you meet losses you need not worry.

Currently you are just in the stage of contemplating this (yang pattern 20) perhaps good long term energy (34 yin pattern) will see it through.

I think you missed putting one reading in

I then asked a more open one:
What is the best thing to do with regards X?
And got:

Got what ?

And finally, I asked
What if I suggested having a fling before we settle down? (This was badly worded...I guess I meant if I am attracted to someone else and so is he then maybe I could suggest we both do some experiment and see what happens before we make an ageement to exclusivity. It's been very heavy between us and in some way we both desire others in a sort of sexual way, simply because of the simplicity of it, but that doesn't mean we don't want to also be together)
54, 1, 4 - 7, the army
Confused by this as well. I could do this, it would probably be a mistake, but in the end it would result, or lead to good discussions about boundaries? Or? That unless there are some strict boundaries in place this will be no good?

Fling before settle down ? Don't the feelings of the people you have a fling with matter ? You sound as if it's a simple thing just to try someone else out and then put them back, I don't really understand that way of thinking. In truth it's not light throwaway stuff, having a fling will tire you emotionally and will have repercussions in life - I just don't see the point it seems like treating people like cakes, you know 'shall I try a doughnut before my custard slice'....but that's me not Yi.

51.1.4>7 I can't really answer a question that makes no sense to me. You think you might have a fling with someone you haven't met yet and are asking Yi what if you do that before you settle down ? well as I said people aren't cakes. I think it looks like a lot of upheaval and also in line 4 you're are stuck in an emotional mire you can't easily break out of - but generally I can't answer this question. I think it's daft idea to plan to have flings before settling down, it's like neither of you realise what a huge impact this has on your relationship. When I say 'huge impact' it might be nothing you can see but everything changes when you start adding other people into your relationships. Energy connections are real things, when you have sex you connect to a person energetically, you carry them around in your energy field, some say you are connected by a kind of astral cord. Now if you add all this into the mix of the energy between you 2 I see a lot of mud in line 4 you can't easily get yourself out of. I'm not sure who'd want to be someone's fling while they have the 'real' relationship waiting in the wings.

 

[Lola1986]

Thanks so much Trojina. Your assistance in interpretisg 35 - 45 is very helpful, and somehow calming : ) I realise the fling hexagram question was stupid, in the sense that this isn't what I want, it's just sort of an attempt to find a compromise and reduce the pressure in our situation. So it's kind of irrelevant really and also, I do think it is a bad idea regardless of the iching and I agree with regards the astral tie.

The reading I forgot to put in was:
What is the best thing to do with regards X:
Hex 17 1,3 - 31

Again, I found this confusing. Like 17 1, he seems to be changing his tune, his feelings and is putting in a lot of effort (in words) in the sense that he is reflecting on his issues in a way I've not seen him do before. And then line 3 seems to be sort of, don't be seduced by the words, use your brain not your emotions? But that ultimately this will benefit me (so sort of don't follow him in this!)

These are from a few days ago now. I'm really kind of torn up. The last communication I had I did say I feel under lot of pressure to make some decision and I need more time and he said, of course, and also that he wasn't sure a BIG decision with all that intensity was the right way to go.

I am now consulting too much, and, as Hilary warned, have got very confused! Some readings seem to suggest going along, others (21) suggest not, others (3) are about new growth but it's not clear to me whether this is with him or not. My worst fear, rather than losing him, is getting back to the same place I/we were before with me feeling very insecure and uncertain and unhappy. He agrees and he knows this. But of course there is still doubt in me, whether he wants to get back because of what he gets (I am quite a 'good' partner) and because of pride and because of fear of loss, as opposed to what he can/is able/willing to give (in terms of nurturing me as much as I do him). I similarly fear (quite apart from him) that I will once more allow myself to fall back into that roll/position of being very co-dependent with him. Phewph!
Thanks so much for your wise words

 

[Trojina]

Thanks for the tea

Thinking some more about the 35.5.6>45, especially 35.5 I think with this kind of reassurance, it actually tells you not to worry or take loss or gain to heart, there is no pressure for you to decide about this. Nothing is at stake, you won't lose anything by leaving the decision open for some time. He's not going anywhere, you are still on good terms and potentially available to each other so there's no rush.


I understand more about the fling question now but see it in a different light due to your 17.1.3>31 answer. I don't think a fling is necessarily the direction to go as explained above but in this 17 answer I do see a hint to keep your options open

The reading I forgot to put in was:
What is the best thing to do with regards X:
Hex 17 1,3 - 31

Looking at the change patterns 36 and 6 I feel that however you presented this question to yourself and to us you feel hurt and undermined in some sense from this whole thing. There's wounding there and if there weren't there wouldn't be a question negotiating you'd just be back together. And as you say you are 'torn up'. So although you are on good terms with him it cannot be overlooked that this did hurt you and your choices are very much hinging on whether he will hurt you again by wanting open relationship/other women etc.

Here Yi appears to me to be saying the best thing to do with regards to X is just to let it go for a while and follow your fancy. Line 1 suggests you go out and meet new people, mingle, try different things. So I think Yi is saying just know he is there (35.5) but just let him go for a bit while you have a bit of a change of scene by just making room for a few new mini adventures in your daily life. That is step out of routine a bit, be amongst people you may not ordinarily be with. Now this line could be interpreted as describing him Hilary's translation is


'An official has a change of heart.
Constancy, good fortune.
Going out of the gates, joining with others, there is achievement.'

It's easy to see him as the official but you asked what to do about him so I see it as you going out of the gate, joining with others. In my experience this line has meant just that. It's like you know sometimes you do something different, go out for the day or go to a party it kind of refreshes your outlook ? I think that is what this line describes, a refreshment of outlook through being with others. Who knows you may meet the man in line 3, a mature man.


In 17.2 there's someone cleaving to the boy but in 17.3 , Hilary's translation

'Bound to the mature man,
Lets go the small child.
Following gains what it seeks.
Harvest in constancy in settling.'

It seems you cleave to the mature man ? Is that him or someone else ? I don't know but I do think maturity, both yours and his is kind of central in whether you get back together.

I don't know your age but younger women can't afford to waste time on immature uncommitted men because if they want a family there's quite a narrow time limit for fertility, coming up to 40 and one's chances are lessened. You may wonder why I have gone off at this tangent when you haven't even mentioned having kids and indeed it may be inappropriate at all but Yi has mentioned a mature man and I don't think when finding a mate a woman can afford to waste too much time with a man looking like he's shy of fully committing. That is a tangent of my own there, just thinking in your decision about this do think long term, you don't want to be 2 years down the line and he says actually he thinks he wants an open relationship again..


However Yi has told you not to fret in 35.5, you don't need to worry and about gaining or losing right now so I'm saying think longer term just from me but I don't think Yi is urging you to fret. I do think Yi whilst leaving this all up to your choice is hinting that there might be other guys out there for you. I say that from the 17.1.3>31. I could be wrong and this describes him as I said but 17.1 is usually asking you to relax your usual connections, leave them where they are for a bit and just go out and do some different stuff. It will at least probably give you more perspective on the issue. I wonder if it may be you are ahead of him in terms of maturity and he has a way to go. Whether you find the maturity you need in him or of it is another man I can't be totally sure but certainly his level of maturity compared to the other men you meet when you go out (as you will in 17.5) needs to be considered.

 

[Lola1986]

" Looking at the change patterns 36 and 6 I feel that however you presented this question to yourself and to us you feel hurt and undermined in some sense from this whole thing. There's wounding there and if there weren't there wouldn't be a question negotiating you'd just be back together. And as you say you are 'torn up'. So although you are on good terms with him it cannot be overlooked that this did hurt you and your choices are very much hinging on whether he will hurt you again by wanting open relationship/other women etc."

Can I ask, what do you mean by the change patterns?

 

[Trojina]

They are the patterns the change lines make just by themselves. If you make all the change lines yang in your answer and the rest yin you will have the yang change pattern. If you make all the change lines yin and the rest yang you have yin change pattern. These can often reveal what the question is really about. You don't really need to consider these at all especially if you are new but I like to look at them sometimes.

 

[Lola1986]

Hi Trojina, well thanks for all your advice. I guess I'll just see how it goes, he is pretty keen, it feels odd to be re-starting when it felt very much over. Maybe like going backwards! Perhaps it just hasn't been enough 'recovery time'. But who knows, maybe it'll work out in some way. I'll keep you updated of the 'events' although it might be a while!