54.4 ?

[maremaria]

About what is this line ?

I can see timing, commitment , pontetial, but is too foggy to me.

Any ideas ?

Maria

 

[meng]

54.4 This (mood, environment, circumstance, etc) is not me. I shall wait for her to leave.

 

[maremaria]

Just wait ? Like there is a work in process where the results are not visible ?

 

[meng]

ummmm, well, right now she doesn't seem to be helping much. I suppose there may be some time in the future when that one will make a good wife, though.

 

[meng]

I just watched a story on Ripley's Believe it or not, of a man who lost his face, literally. After two year recovery time, he was ready to be fitted with a prosthesis. His supportive wife by his side the entire time. After, he said "My face isn't me, my heart is me." I thought, what an incredibly brave example of 54, what a worthy maiden to marry.

 

[dobro p]

54.4: things coming together later than expected (but at exactly the right time, actually).

 

[fkegan]

hex 54.4 >>19

Hex 54 is beginning of the process perspective (hex 54,55,56) within the decad of hex 51 the Divine seen clearly in human life. Hex 54 highlights the notion that marriages are made in Heaven. The fourth line is the place of the soul. The Yang line in the fourth place expresses and exhausts itself changing the entire hexagram to hex 19, the situation of things clearly coming together.

So, this line represents expressing and holding fast to one's ideals and individual commitments which are your personal lodestar (cf. hex 17.5). This takes you out of the social whirl and the regular marriage mill; however, it puts you on a heartfelt path which will bring its own rewards and companions in due course.

Gia-Fu Feng translated the name of this hexagram as Marrying Off Little Sister. My Flux Tome (I Ching) name is Chasing Rainbows.The youngest daughter seeks what she wants for herself rather than what will be the best wealth and status move for the family. Chasing Rainbows is how each of us seeks our personal dream in the world and finds our personal reality.

Each line expresses a different way to find your perfect situation--your marriage made in heaven. Line four expresses its soul or clings to its ideals and finds through that path what is most compatible to this Self. It is not about waiting, she draws out the Cosmically alloted time DOING what is most important to her, which is not chasing boys. The corresponding Sabian Symbol is the Red Cross Nurse--an allusion in the 1920's to the remarkable young women from the American Heartland who went over to World War I France and faced the horrors of the field hospitals to save lives (and put off their peaceful lives and marriages until the War was over).

It is a line about action from the soul that may leaves others thinking the person is just not doing much practical but actually is working on higher goals.

Frank

 

[meng]

The question is, what does she do in the meantime? Is it a matter of just waiting to mature, and progress to line 5? Or is this something she has some degree of control of? Perhaps she can't speed the growth of her breasts, but she certainly can expand her thinking to beyond herself. When a girl's vision surpasses herself she becomes a woman, worthy and modest to marry, in line 5.

 

[fkegan]

The question is, what does she do in the meantime? Is it a matter of just waiting to mature, and progress to line 5? Or is this something she has some degree of control of? Perhaps she can't speed the growth of her breasts, but she certainly can expand her thinking to beyond herself. When a girl's vision surpasses herself she becomes a woman, worthy and modest to marry, in line 5.

Hi Meng,
As a moving line, hex 54.4 never gets to the fifth line of hex 54, instead it approaches hex 19 where things are coming together from many sources. The youngest daughter is interested in her own interests--it is the boys and her elders who are watching her breasts grow and waiting for her to mature and follow their expectations.

Yellowbridge shows even in the Chinese text there is no notion of "waiting" or passively letting things just happen.

The fourth NINE, undivided, shows the younger sister who is to be married off protracting the time. She may be late in being married, but the time will come.
象曰‧愆期之志‧有待而行也‧ (The purpose in) 'protracting the time' is that, after waiting, the thing may be done (all the better)

Younger sister in the 4th line is actively putting off her being married off while she pursues her own interests or until she can make her own marriage on better grounds than the size of her breasts or even imitating high society in line 5.

Frank

 

[cesca]

Maybe she's holding out....until it's really the right time, not just 'officially' the right time.

 

[maremaria]

I was away from my computer so I couldn’t post earlier.

What I like in 54.4. maiden , if I have understood her correctly, is that she choose not to do something out of fear just because she doesn’t follow the common order of things. Looks like a young girl who puts in first priority her own well-being than the “expected and accepted right thing” society orders.
But is this so easy like this line describes? to me looks like a peaceful line but the question I asked doesn’t fits there. The feelings I have about it is that the girl and the “society” live in the same mind. The society pushes and says to the maiden “You are late. You should be married by now” and the maiden says. “Its not time yet”

Meng : The question is, what does she do in the meantime? Is it a matter of just waiting to mature, and progress to line 5?
Or is this something she has some degree of control of ?

My questions too. I think that in some matters she has to wait but I don’t feel that she doesn’t have control at all. Maybe she isn’t able to form situations but I quess she is the one who can make decisions . She is the one to say no or yes.


I really loved that. "My face isn't me, my heart is me." you have no idea how this fits to the current situation. I think I know how this man felt when he first saw his new face in the mirror. Like looking at a stranger.

Thank you all for your inputs.
Maria

 

[meng]

Hi Maria,

Just in case I didn't make this certain connection clear enough:

"When a girl's vision surpasses herself she becomes a woman."

and

"The noble one through the eternity of the end understands the transitory"

That's what she does in the meantime.

 

[jesed]

Hi Maremaria

Just in case the comment could be useful

There are 2 mayor ways to understand that line

1.- The "principal" one is like has been discussed here. The young lady choose to wait for a better time (even, for a better husband), no matter what the society orders. Some people even go further and interpreted it in the sense of "think twice before take any commitment with the issue you asked about" or "better to lose this in the present, in order to gain something better in the future"

2.- But there is another way, an "alternative" one, wich see this line like a young lady who fights against something inevitable. No matter how long she can delay it in the present, the marriage will be celebrate sooner or later. Harlez translate the line in this sense, for example.

In most cases, I have find useful a mixed approach. Something like: "there is a situation that you cann't avoid; and even you could accept in general but not under the actual circumstances. Therefore, gain time to improve your chances and position to influence the final outcome".

3.- Maybe, you can find interesting to understand this line, at the light of it's cause (line 33.4) and it's effect (19.4).

Best

 

[jesed]

BTW
There is a valuable work from Enrique Zafra (it is in Spanish). This is not a translation, but his personal aproach to the Yi.
http://www.amazon.com/Ching-Posibil...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211301107&sr=8-2


In this work, in every line he gives questions to ask ourselves to meditate in our situation, rather than translation or comment of the line. I find this aproach very gentle, and setting the responsability in ourselves. Instead of assuming "This is the situation", is like "ask yourself this about the situation". Many times, this helps more, because it is a chellenge to our responsability, our discernment and our creativity.

For 54.4 he gives this
"Do we prefer to stay alone rather than compromise our confidence in relationships that really do not correspond to our way of being?"

Hope this can help

Best

 

[maremaria]

Meng, I think your connection was clear. You won’t see that in my post but it is clear. The 54.4 girl has to compromise with the current situation, understand that it is a transitory one and prepare herself for the “wedding”. Maybe she can’t change the situation but she can decide whether or not wants to work towards her wish. To get married to the man she wants. In the meantime she and/or time has to mature

For 54.4 he gives this
"Do we prefer to stay alone rather than compromise our confidence in relationships that really do not correspond to our way of being?"

Jesed, I think this question fits in 54.4 the way I see it. Thanks for your ideas.


Maria

 

[meng]

extension of topic

Maria, when you have a chance, take a peek at the fan yao of 54.5 (58.5), specifically Bradford's comments. I think you may connect with it. I love this line: "Why glue autumn leaves to a tree?"

 

[maremaria]

Maybe this isn’t the right place to post the following but I need to say to somebody without starting from “I ching is a book….”

Yesterday I attented to a class of creative writing. The exercise we where given was to hear to a unfinished story consisted of 8 part and choose from each part a word. Then from the 8 choosen word we had to say which of this word we will choose as a tittle for a story we have to write which an develope the initial story. I choose newspaper. There were more interesting word but for a reason it seduce me . The greek word for newspaper is ephemerida and the root is ephemeros "lasting only one day,"

I thought that I saw that word somewhere in Brad’s translation. I searched and find this word in 54.0 and 58.5

I got this line 54.4 when I asked “what is going on in my mind” . For some reasons I feel that the left side of my brain isn’t in a mood to work. Its very lazy
I’m saying that because although I have read Brad’s 54 and 58.5, Meng suggested, and the last time was yesterday on my way to the seminar I couldn't “see” that word until now.

I won’t try to explain it , define it etc. Maybe is nothing, maybe is something. Lets say I just wanted to get it out of my chestThere are more but as I said my brain’s left side wants to be lazy . maybe it has it’s reasons. Hope that this mood will be an ephemeral mood

 

[meng]

In my own life, I've found it's better to smile and wave at the weaving connections and synchronicities passing by, rather than to try to understand them in the finite sense. Usually it helps just to know I'm not alone.

Thanks for the feedback and sharing a chuckle.

 

[Trojina]

The fan yao of 54.4 is 19.4 isn't it ? Wondering how you get to 58.5

 

[maremaria]

The fan yao of 54.4 is 19.4 isn't it ? Wondering how you get to 58.5

By a magical way

Do you believe in magic ?

 

[maremaria]

In my own life, I've found it's better to smile and wave at the weaving connections and synchronicities passing by, rather than to try to understand them in the finite sense. Usually it helps just to know I'm not alone.

:bows:

 

[meng]

The fan yao of 54.4 is 19.4 isn't it ? Wondering how you get to 58.5

"Maria, when you have a chance, take a peek at the fan yao of 54.5 (58.5).."

 

[jesed]

Hi Trojan and Bruce

3.- Maybe, you can find interesting to understand this line, at the light of it's cause (line 33.4) and it's effect (19.4).

What Bradford called fan yao, and others like Ricardo Andree treat as the "effect" of one particular line, in this case is 19.4; not 58.5

Best

 

[Trojina]

But I think what happened is Bruce had started talking about 54.5 instead so thats how he got to 58.5 .

 

[meng]

But I think what happened is Bruce had started talking about 54.5 instead so thats how he got to 58.5 .

Yeppers. That's why I headed it "extension of topic". Maria had asked about waiting for the figurative proper wedding, which is shown in line 5. The fan yao (58.5) shows the same "little sister" (Dui/lake) preparing, by not trusting in what can not be sustained, and instead looking beyond herself and the ephemeral, which is what 54 teaches. Bradford's depiction seemed especially relevant in this sense.

 

[Sara369]

hex 54.4 >>19

Hex 54 is beginning of the process perspective (hex 54,55,56) within the decad of hex 51 the Divine seen clearly in human life. Hex 54 highlights the notion that marriages are made in Heaven. The fourth line is the place of the soul. The Yang line in the fourth place expresses and exhausts itself changing the entire hexagram to hex 19, the situation of things clearly coming together.

So, this line represents expressing and holding fast to one's ideals and individual commitments which are your personal lodestar (cf. hex 17.5). This takes you out of the social whirl and the regular marriage mill; however, it puts you on a heartfelt path which will bring its own rewards and companions in due course.

Gia-Fu Feng translated the name of this hexagram as Marrying Off Little Sister. My Flux Tome (I Ching) name is Chasing Rainbows.The youngest daughter seeks what she wants for herself rather than what will be the best wealth and status move for the family. Chasing Rainbows is how each of us seeks our personal dream in the world and finds our personal reality.

Each line expresses a different way to find your perfect situation--your marriage made in heaven. Line four expresses its soul or clings to its ideals and finds through that path what is most compatible to this Self. It is not about waiting, she draws out the Cosmically alloted time DOING what is most important to her, which is not chasing boys. The corresponding Sabian Symbol is the Red Cross Nurse--an allusion in the 1920's to the remarkable young women from the American Heartland who went over to World War I France and faced the horrors of the field hospitals to save lives (and put off their peaceful lives and marriages until the War was over).

It is a line about action from the soul that may leaves others thinking the person is just not doing much practical but actually is working on higher goals.

Frank

I know your wrote this in 2008, but I just received this line in a reading and found your response here and it’s beautiful, thank you!

 

[Trojina]

Fkegan died many years ago so he won't be replying.

When a thread is very old there is a good chance a number of the respondents may be dead or just not here any more.. In the space of 14 years deaths and departures happen. If you click on someone's name you can see when they were last here. Fkegan was last here in May 2010, nearly 13 years ago. When it's been a very long time since someone was here they may not be back to read your comment. It' worth checking when they were last here before writing to them.