57.2 > 53 : The name or indication of a country

[Marsine]

In brief, I was given the job to establish partnerships with organizations similar to the one I'm working for.
Details are not as important as the concept itself and I've been reaching out to various organizations around the globe.
I asked I Ching to indicate a country where I'd succeed to establish as many partnerships as possible and got hexagram 57.2 > 53

The Wind, leading to a Long Term Relationship...

So I'm trying to figure out what this may be. Some place where the wind has left its mark? Or is it simply telling me to continue doing what I'm already doing, without giving up, as repeated action is bound to deliver results?

I like to visit Taoscopy.com when reading into hexagrams as it displays extremely brief, straight to the point and often unlikely and incomprehensible results.

On this particular hexagram it says
"Understanding the needs -
When the feeding stops, everyone gets organized to exit."

Could that mean an economically disadvantaged area, where people would be keen on partnerships overseas which could provide them with brighter future opportunities?

 

[Trojina]

This belongs in Shared readings forum.

 

[Trojina]

I like to visit Taoscopy.com when reading into hexagrams as it displays extremely brief, straight to the point and often unlikely and incomprehensible results.

That is not the I Ching. If you want to know what the I Ching says read that. Taoscopy's work isn't close to the I Ching and indeed the quote you gave is incomprehensible so why use it.

 

[Marsine]

Thanks for pointing out the right forum Trojina, I didn't know. I will repost this on the shared readings forum.
As for Taoscopy I came across the website by chance and was inclined to discard it at first, but it's quite extensive which made me think that probably, somebody who dwells into the meaning and interpretation of the I Ching, is putting a lot of work into this... which made me curious because apparently, a lot of the comments make no sense to me but they must be based on something, right?
I have also experienced its accuracy on describing real life experiences I've had, after casting a hexagram and not being able to come up with an interpretation.

Anyways. I do read the I Ching. Personally I use Richard Wilhelm's translation, which I tend to like the most, but I do like looking at other versions from time to time to get more depth

 

[Marsine]

Hello all,
I'm reposting this here as I previously posted it on the wrong forum by mistake.

In brief, I was given the job to establish partnerships with organizations similar to the one I'm working for.
Details are not as important as the concept itself and I've been reaching out to various organizations around the globe.
I asked I Ching to indicate a country where I'd succeed to establish as many partnerships as possible and got hexagram 57.2 > 53

The Wind, leading to a Long Term Relationship...

So I'm trying to figure out what this may be. Some place where the wind has left its mark? Or is it simply telling me to continue doing what I'm already doing, without giving up, as repeated action is bound to deliver results?

I like to visit Taoscopy.com when reading into hexagrams as it displays extremely brief, straight to the point and often unlikely and incomprehensible results.

On this particular hexagram it says
"Understanding the needs -
When the feeding stops, everyone gets organized to exit."

Could that mean an economically disadvantaged area, where people would be keen on partnerships overseas which could provide them with brighter future opportunities?

 

[Trojina]

which made me curious because apparently, a lot of the comments make no sense to me but they must be based on something, right?

If you find it useful fine but it's not the I Ching.

Someone else will move the thread at some point so you don't need to copy it over.

 

[Marsine]

I am aware of the fact that it's not the I Ching... it's someone's interpretation of it. Just like you and I, or anybody else on this forum for that matter, like to give our interpretations of it.

 

[Trojina]

No it isn't just an interpretation of it, what I'm saying is his work isn't based on the I Ching. It's incredibly misleading and so if it has no connection to Yi as your quote didn't have it's not credible to be used here.

 

[Trojina]

As said over there Taoscopy's work is not the I Ching. I have the idea he claimed to channel meanings that came to him but really it has no connection so quoting from him isn't quoting the I Ching it's quoting Taoscopy. We've been over this before here, it's not just me saying this. He was posting interpretations here at one time that bore no relation to the I Ching, that is his oracle is his oracle, the oracle of taoscopy.



The I Ching answers you so the answer is to you, it's advising you how to find a name not giving you a name.


Look at the answer the I Ching gave you, from wikiwing

'Rooting under the bed,
Using scribes and diviners, a whole mix of them.
Good fortune, no mistake.'

So those are the words of the I Ching...


That shows what you are doing to find a name, it can be kind of tongue in cheek. You're rooting around trying to discover a name by looking under the bed, ie using strange or esoteric methods to fidn a name.

On this particular hexagram it says
"Understanding the needs -
When the feeding stops, everyone gets organized to exit."

So this isn't a commentary, he's claiming this is what the I Ching is actually saying. It isn't, it has no relation to it...so it's not valid for use on an I Ching forum.

Could that mean an economically disadvantaged area, where people would be keen on partnerships overseas which could provide them with brighter future opportunities?

No, the I Ching doesn't say anything about a disadvantaged area, Taoscopy does. It would be absurd to take a text that is not the I Ching but claims to be and then deduce from that it has something to do with disadvantaged countries.

 

[Marsine]

Based on our conversation on the "Exploring Divination" forum, and your reply here... I'm deducing you really don't like Taoscopy At All
And you seem to have mistaken me for a big advocate of the website.

I never said I based my reading on the commentary on Taoscopy, nor did I compare it to the I Ching.
As already said - and I'm surprised to have to say this - I'm very much aware of the fact that Taoscopy is not the I Ching but it's simply someone's interpretation of it. Just like you and I give our interpretations to hexagrams.
Which is what this forum is about, right? Exchange of interpretations and opinions.

I personally prefer Richard Wilhelm's translation and tend to base my interpretation on that. I do like to look around and see how others are interpreting the hexagrams. That includes looking into other translations, in different languages, this forum, websites, among which, Taoscopy, which actually has always left me a bit perplexed but has happened to provide accurate, straight to the point, description of something I asked about.

So actually, a part of me was curious to see if someone would have something to say about Taoscopy and based on what you're saying, that website is the work of a big charlatan basically.

Anyways... I really wasn't inquiring on Taoscopy, I was just throwing in, along with giving my two cents as well, a question on a possible interpretation I found out there.

I'm curious to see others interpretation of 57.2 - 53 as an indication of a geographical area.

 

[moss elk]

I am aware of the fact that it's not the I Ching... it's someone's interpretation of it.

But, you are still not getting it.

We know mr Taoscopy, we have interacted with him here.

He is obsessive & borderline insane,
and what he writes
is not an interpretation of Yi,
it is an invention of his,
with meaning pulled out of his own ... mind.

Consider yourself warned.

 

[Marsine]

I have been reading this forum for a while and both of your usernames have popped up many times.
I actually really appreciate many of the interpretations and answers I have seen from both of you and I don't think I'm wrong when I say you are very experienced readers.

Had no idea about all the things you're telling me about Taoscopy... but I'll take your word for it!

Cheers!

 

[moss elk]

I asked I Ching to indicate a country where I'd succeed to establish as many partnerships as possible and got hexagram 57.2 > 53

The Wind's Gradual progress.

Here is how to do what you are seeking:
select a small number of candidates/countries, then do a single cast for each one,
specifically asking something like, "what about progress with this one?"

 

[diamanda]

Priests and magicians in great numbers, at a place with many hills.
Here are the world's most religious countries:
99% Religious: Bangladesh, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Malawi, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, Yemen
Now you need to find out which of these countries has the most hills.

 

[Olga Super Star]

Some of these countries are mostly at war though. I don’t know what business partnership one can get now in Nigeria or Ethiopia.
People over there are obliged to be religious or else problems shall arise.

Doesn’t the line say you can find out through divination?

 

[diamanda]

Doesn’t the line say you can find out through divination?

In my opinion, the situation is like this:
Someone asks through divination 'what country?'.
So the answer cannot be 'ask through divination'.

 

[becalm]

I asked I Ching to indicate a country where I'd succeed to establish as many partnerships as possible and got hexagram 57.2 > 53

This is in answer to your question - A developed and progressive country that uses insight through past experiences to Penetrate into how to move forward.

If we're going to talk about how to go about it though - I'd say do a bit of research into how your organisation or others have got other countries on board (or not) before. Take your time.

 

[Olga Super Star]

In my opinion, the situation is like this:
Someone asks through divination 'what country?'.
So the answer cannot be 'ask through divination'.

Once a girl asked Yi for a suggestion about the change in life she was having and the answer was.. 49 - change!

We all laughed very much

 

[diamanda]

That's different. If she asked about "what type of change", or, "how can I change", then 49 answers that fully, as it explains it's a pre-determined / pre-destined change, which was only a matter of time to happen, a change which is not up to the person to force the change bc it will happen of its own accord.

 

[Trojina]

Asking Yi 'what country' won't work, it's not a map or a guide to the different countries. It can't say 'Spain' and if you start trying to figure it out through associations I think you are up the creek without a paddle.

Most of the time the answer is for you, it's addressing you, your actions, your perspective. As it can't say 'Spain' or 'India' all it's done is show what you're actually trying to do. That is looking in all sorts of obscure places just like the line says. I wrote an answer in the duplicate thread which hasn't been merged so am repeating self and have to go get the line again from wiki sigh.............

'Rooting under the bed,
Using scribes and diviners, a whole mix of them.
Good fortune, no mistake.'


That's just what you are doing, asking on a divination forum, using diviners. It's good fortune you in some way, perhaps it helps you sift through ideas which would fit with 57.


Whatever you do don't waste time associating this answer to countries although I suppose doing so would be somewhat what the line is doing.


I think this line is often tongue in cheek in that one looks in hidden and esoteric places fro something that's not hidden. However it's still good fortune.

 

[hilary]

(Moderator note: I've merged the two threads on this topic, which means their posts have been mixed together somewhat.)

 

[Marsine]

So I thought I'd stop by for a little update... a very interesting and unexpected one actually.

In brief, I continued to reach out to a number of organizations, spreading the message like the wind, hoping it would land on a fertile ground somewhere.

Turned out the most fertile ground was in Greece! Organizations there were the ones most interested, by far!

But... we never actually managed to conclude things... (and here comes the unexpected part) ...because a month in from when I wrote this post, one morning all the local newspapers headlines were glowing as the whole board of directors and founders of the organization I was working for had been arrested at the first light of dawn, for a major hoax, corruption scheme... you name it!

So all the hard (and futile at this point) work carried out by me, and other clueless staff of the organization, up to that moment, went straight down the drain. All activities were stopped immediately and no contracts were made, obviously.

Turned out police investigation teams had been monitoring them for years, gathering (hidden) information in order to be able to put a solid case together, which luckily they were able to do.

Puts hexagram 57.2 in a completely different light doesn't it?

 

[dfreed]

I asked I Ching to indicate a country where I'd succeed to establish as many partnerships as possible and got hexagram 57.2 > 53

Sorry if I'm coming a bit late to the game here .... I just read that there are estimated to be 200-250 'countries' in the world today; and if we were to count tribes, disputed territories, etc. I think the number would be much greater.

In the times when the Yijing was written and first used, it may have been a completely appropriate question for a ruler to ask: which other kingdoms shall I ally (join, partner, or unite) myself with? This was possible because there were far few possibilities: you knew who your one or few neighbors were to the north, south ... and you knew if they were gentle, or if strong or gentle winds blew through their territories ... and so forth.

Now however, this might be a lot harder question for the Yi to answer; or more correctly, it is a lot harder question for you (or us) to interpret the answer to. But even now (and assuming that the Yi answers questions, regardless if we think they are 'good' or 'bad'), I think the Yi is giving you lots of good advice and information - which you can then use to come up with an answer to your question - a place to "succeed to establish as many partnerships as possible".

Looking at Wilhelm (who you prefer):

Wilhelm names Hex. 57 - The Gentle (Penetrating, Wind)

57 - The Gentle. Success through what is small. It furthers one to have somewhere to go. It furthers one to see the great man .... and ....

57.2 - Penetration under the bed. Priests and magicians are used in great number. Good fortune. No blame.

And with Wilhelm's Image statement, there are Winds following one upon the other - so that you (and your organization) can carry out (your) undertakings.

Putting this altogether, you have:

Gentle Winds: perhaps a place (or country) that does not have so much conflict that it would impede your working there. Or ... what are the places where you could work 'gently' over the long term?

Success through what is small: a smaller nation, so not Russia, China, the US ....

Priest and magicians used in great numbers: places were this is still true, which brings to mind Ireland and Italy, Tibet, Mongolia, tribes in the Amazon ... (among others I'm sure!)

To see great men (or a great man): this one is a bit trickier I think, since we humans are all over the map (literally and figuratively) as to whom we think is 'great'. But you could still consider this; for example: a country (meeting the other criteria above) with a 'great' religious leader (like the pope or Dali Lama ... ); a country with recognized 'great people' - perhaps Nobel Prize winners; or other 'great leaders' who meet your personal criteria for greatness - for me this includes Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Gandhi and others; .... but you likely have a different list (since this is your reading, not mine). Or, are there any outstanding people working in the same field(s) that your organization works in whom you think would be good to partner with?

Penetration under the bed: again, this may be highly subjective, but it could be a nation where you look below it's perceived 'gentleness' to see its underlying needs, conditions, conflicts that align with the goals and work that your organization does.

Wind(s) one upon another: Here, I think of the association of the trigram Xun (or Sun), not only with Wind, but also with green wood and roots; and 'roots, one upon another' brings to mind cultures, peoples (which might be nations, or not) with deep, ancient, ancestral roots. For example: even though the countries of the Americas (the 'New World'), are not themselves old, their native, original peoples are - the First Nations of Canada, tribes here in the US, and the indigenous peoples throughout the Americas all fit this criteria - and are of course small (when compared to the nations in which they live).

And so with a bit of digging and research, I think these suggestions and ideas will yield a list of nations or people whom you can "succeed to establish partnerships with".

Best, D

 

[Lana73123]

So I thought I'd stop by for a little update... a very interesting and unexpected one actually.

In brief, I continued to reach out to a number of organizations, spreading the message like the wind, hoping it would land on a fertile ground somewhere.

Turned out the most fertile ground was in Greece! Organizations there were the ones most interested, by far!

But... we never actually managed to conclude things... (and here comes the unexpected part) ...because a month in from when I wrote this post, one morning all the local newspapers headlines were glowing as the whole board of directors and founders of the organization I was working for had been arrested at the first light of dawn, for a major hoax, corruption scheme... you name it!

So all the hard (and futile at this point) work carried out by me, and other clueless staff of the organization, up to that moment, went straight down the drain. All activities were stopped immediately and no contracts were made, obviously.

Turned out police investigation teams had been monitoring them for years, gathering (hidden) information in order to be able to put a solid case together, which luckily they were able to do.

Puts hexagram 57.2 in a completely different light doesn't it?

Wow! That is really wild!! But it totally makes sense - the 57.2 line.
I just got that line today and after reading this thread https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?threads/57-2-historians-and-diviners.14519/
it put much clarity in my mind.

something I thought for your situation, @Marsine , maybe you can gather together all the work and workers in the project and start your own international organization. It won’t be easy - but you now know Greece is receptive, fertile ground for the idea.
good luck to you! What an amazing story to be a part of!!

 

[diamant]

So interesting to revisit this thread.
The exact original question was:

I asked I Ching to indicate a country where I'd succeed to establish as many partnerships as possible
57.2 > 53

From the way things turned out in Greece (hard work proved futile, no contracts made), it sounds like the I Ching didn't mean Greece in this cast, since it didn't turn out to be a success.

 

[Marsine]

So interesting to revisit this thread.
The exact original question was:

I asked I Ching to indicate a country where I'd succeed to establish as many partnerships as possible
57.2 > 53

From the way things turned out in Greece (hard work proved futile, no contracts made), it sounds like the I Ching didn't mean Greece in this cast, since it didn't turn out to be a success.

That's true, but on the other hand, no country could have possibly been a success as the organization was completely shut down over night due to this major corruption scheme.

A contract could never have gone through as the timeline (leading to the arrests) would have been too tight, considering all the bureaucratic work that would have been needed in order to establish an international partnership.

Knowing what I know now I believe the answer was not related to a country at all—but then again, I've never been able to make up my mind completely about whether I Ching answers our questions literally or whether it tends to extend the answer to the bigger picture/predicting future events.

 

[diamant]

@Marsine yes I totally see what you mean. There's an important lesson here. Olga was right:

Doesn’t the line say you can find out through divination?

The line was encouraging you to ask more questions, as the original question was presupposing that you would succeed, depending on the country (i.e. the original question wasn't adequate to explain the situation). I'll definitely remember this, thanks to your thread.

 

[moss elk]

I've never been able to make up my mind completely about whether I Ching answers our questions literally or whether it tends to extend the answer to the bigger picture/predicting future events.

Don't try to pin it to one category only.
Because it does do both, and more.

(in my experience, direct answers are much more common than the other kinds. But. user experience should and will vary)

Our task is to be awake and perceptive enough to discern which is happening with any given reading.

 

[BaronAsh]

From Yi Jing by Jing Nuan Wu
"
Sun is formed by doubling the trigram sun, which stands for wind or wood. The action of Sun is described in the Great Appendix as ru 'to enter' with the idea of penetrating like the wind, into every
nook and cranny. In times when events are blowing like the wind, it is imperative to be disciplined, to put things in order, to seek advice before movement.
The guaci:
'Sun: Small sacrificial offerings. Advantageous to have a place to go to. Advantageous to see the Great Man."

Action can take place when goals have been established in conjunction with outside counsel. You should make a small offering to honor the spiritual realm.

9-2 The second line, "The wind present under the bed. Use annualists [i.e. astrologers], wizards, and numbers like them. Good fortune. No error."

The wind under the bed, a draft of air stirring up dust and disturbing one's sleep, could be an omen to seek advice. Annualists would give advice about historical precedents. Wizards, either sorcerer or sorceress, should also be consulted for signs beyond normal vision. The ideogram for wu, "wizard," shows women dancing around a pole, which symbolizes the connection between heaven and earth.

Seeking advice from those who know nature, in addition to historians who understand the activities of man, will bring good fortune."

I find this interesting in that the approach involves dealing with times of change (wind) and how to go about it, namely by penetrating deep into various aspects perhaps in unusual ways by consulting with those who see things differently from yourself (wizards etc.) and thus are perhaps outside conventional perspective, something deeper from before our times maybe. Women dancing around a phallic pole involve summoning the pagan, the instinctive, the intuitive, the direct rather than the verbal, the conceptual, the intellectual.

As to country, double Sun can be said to be Wood/Trees below and Wind above, so perhaps an area with many forests. The lower trigram changes to Mountain, so perhaps a hilly area with many trees. Connecting with old, deep wisdom also suggested by mountain - tradition, lofty view, meditation. I was thinking of the Old Forest which led to envisaging areas like Poland - which has the original forest from Old Europe still around, or maybe Central Europe in similar areas with hills and forests.

There is a hint too that to figure out the best country you need to penetrate deep within yourself to identify what you really want. It is to that end that you might be consulting others wiser than yourself or more knowledgeable of certain countries. But even so, it has to line up with your own inner and deeper needs and intentions. The overarching sense of Sun/Wind/Wood has to do with steady penetration, like how roots gradually spread through soil and interpenetrate with other roots and rhizomes creating a virtual underground internet receiving and transmitting no end of nutrients and information, whilst up above plants and trees gradually and continually put forth branches and numberless leaves each of which quivers in its own particular way, unique, in breezes which touch all of them simultaneously. So there is a sense of penetration along with interconnectedness which latter has to do with gentleness, kinship. This suggests that wherever you go you should make deep, penetrating connection, feel kinship.

Who knows, maybe all you need to do is go to well-wooded areas in Derbyshire? But if it is new countries you want, then look for ones that Druids would favour will well-wooded trees and hills, that's what it seems to me the various trigrams are suggesting......

Good luck!