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58.2.4>3 situation

moss elk

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hi all,

I am currently involved in a situation with a 14 year old runaway who came to me for safety.
I have notified the proper groups of authorities.

I have been given some information regarding the father of the girl, which may or may not be true.
It is possible that he may have committed one of those crimes that the country I live in will prosecute
no matter how much time has passed.

This is a delicate situation involving a living breathing girl whose life could be greatly impacted, so I asked if I should report this information to the authorities.
answer: 58.2.4> 3

i'm very close to this situation and would appreciate outside perspective.
thank you in advance for your interpretations.
 

pocossin

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Should I report this information to the authorities?
answer: 58.2.4> 3


First you say: "I have notified the proper groups of authorities." Then you say: "I asked if I should report this information to the authorities." l am not clear about what you had done. Apparently you have not notified the authorities that the child you are sheltering is the victim of sexual abuse, that is, you are withholding information that legally justifies your action. Your personal danger is that by sheltering this child you could be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. As a protector, you cannot be. If your question is, Should I continue to withhold information? Then the answer is No. Hexagram 58 is double Dui, the mouth, so act as a mouthpiece for this child. Recruit others (3) to help you. You are not violating the trust of the child by informing those who have the power to defend the child's welfare. Basically, you don't.
 

dragona

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hi, i kinda think this cast is mirroring your current state of mind. to communicate something or not...
2nd line tells that you need to be certain of the truth of the situation, intuitive also before you act and the 4th sounds cautionary to me but then again, action brings joy, so you have to do something-or you are already doing it. things are changing in any case.
reading lise`s changing lines, i get the idea that it is good to communicate things, get them off your chest, as the girl in question has done with you. but getting deeper into it will not be smooth ride as these cases never are.
perhaps cast more. i just felt to look into this, even tho it is not much. wish you good results in that delicate matter.
 

moss elk

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Let me clarify. I am working with the police and child protection regarding the runaway.
i have no reason to believe the runaway has been sexually abused, only verbally and physically.
(Excessive/unwarranted hitting)

The crime i did the reading about, if it occurred at all, would have happened 30 years before the girls birth.
it has nothing whatsoever to do with her.
 

moss elk

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Additionally,

I have been working with child protection and at their direction arranged a 'safety plan' whereby she is temporarily staying with a female relative of mine.
 
B

blue_angel

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3 difficult to 58 open up. Line 2 sharing the weight makes it lighter. Line 4 up for discussion. Put it all together. This is going to be difficult to open up. For the case, for the girl, for yourself even. But its up for discussion and sharing the weight will make it all the lighter.

I don't know where you are. Child protective services has to follow guidelines and proceedures. So do the police. In general, the welfare of the child has to be proven endangered. Otherwise, the child will be sent back. There is a major shortage of foster homes across the country. For your relative to take her in, she would have to be fingerprinted, a background check ran, no domestic violence on her record. Her home would be walked through. She would need to become certified and take a few classes. Generally child protective services will not allow this route. If they do, your relative will begin receiving payments monthly to hopefully help provide for this child.

However, the child is likely to go to a receiving home. This is like an orphanage. A large room with beds and cribs. Children ranging in age from infant to 17, all thrown into the same room and only separated by sex. Boys in another large room. They'll meet together in a cafeteria setting for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. This is a temporary setting. Not meant to last long. While there, a social worker is assigned to the childs case. The child will be interviewed, have a physical done at the county hospital, and see a psychologist.

The parents of the child will be interviewed. An investigation will begin. The police are not involved long in this process. Only initially, for the initial report, to go on record. Parents are rarely prosecuted for any crime, even sexual. The focus is on the well being and future of this child. The parents will be offered free therapy, anger management classes, ect, depending on how severe the abuse has been. The courts will first attempt to rehabilitate the parents or find another suitable family member for this child. If the parents refuse therapy or classes and do not prove to be fit, the child will become a permanent ward of the courts.

A temporary or permanent foster home will be the next step. The social worker will attemot to find a secure, loving, suitable fit for the child. Which can be close to impossible. Once every 6 months there will be a court hearing. The social worker will have recommendations, the child's parents will have either been appointed an attorney or if they care enough they will get one. The attorney will plead their case, with or without them there. The judge will ask how the childs progress is ect and will decide the childs future until their 18th birthday.

When the parents finally realize their taxes are going to be garnished for child support, and they have not been let off the hook in responsibility, crap might hit the fan. Its a hell of a process. Sometimes the child would've been safer at home. Sometimes the child is safer in the care of a stranger.

She has a rough road ahead if her either way. Listen to her. Believe in her. Even if what she says is not totally true, somewhere along the lines some serious issues of neglect and emotional abuse did happen. There is indeed an issue of concern somewhere. Provide what safety and care you can. Make no promises because its totally not in your control. Should her parents go to therapy and whatever else the courts order, she will be returned to them. This can happen in as little as 3 months. Don't expect anything, from her, yourself, or anyone else. Its an unpredictable ride. I would say just follow your heart on this. But from what you've shared of your own experience, you could end up projecting. So I'll say best wishes and prayers for all of you.
 
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mirian

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Hi MossElk,

I am trying to understand what the Yi is exactly telling you. Because, as you said, you haven't asked about the girl, or child abuse, or anything like that, your question was about reporting a crime, that may or may not have been committed, by a man, who happens to be the girl's father.

So, my experience with your 58.2.4 is that is a case when we allow ourselves to get involved with something/someone that does not bring any good. We open the door to a negative element. Either because we are not capable of seeing it this way or because we don't understand that this is none of our business. And the lack of decisiveness does not make things any better.

Again, this is my personal experience with these lines, which I would apply to the question in hand. Anyway, just some ideas to think about it. :bows:
 

moss elk

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Thanks friends,

I did a preliminary anonymous talk with a detective, who suggested i talk more with her to feel it out tor myself.
He also gave me contact information for the 'cold case' people in case needed.

The main priority now is the girls safety and for good and clear communication with the protection authorities.
i'll be her advocate with them. Im asking her questions and writing everything down to pass forward.

Thanks again.
 

long yi

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起卦时间:2014年04月24日20时13分
起卦农历:甲午年三月廿五日戌时
神煞:天乙—子申 福星—丑亥 日禄—卯 羊刃—寅 驿马—亥 桃花—午 华盖—丑
干支:甲午年 戊辰月 乙丑日 丙戌时
旬空:辰巳  戌亥  戌亥  午未

六神  伏神    兑宫:兑为泽(六冲)     坎宫:水雷屯
         【本 卦】           【变 卦】
玄武       ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母丁未土 世   ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙戊子水  
白虎       ▅▅▅▅▅ 兄弟丁酉金     ▅▅▅▅▅ 父母戊戌土 应
滕蛇       ▅▅▅▅▅ 子孙丁亥水  ○→ ▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟戊申金  
勾陈       ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母丁丑土 应   ▅▅ ▅▅ 父母庚辰土  
朱雀       ▅▅▅▅▅ 妻财丁卯木  ○→ ▅▅ ▅▅ 妻财庚寅木 世
青龙       ▅▅▅▅▅ 官鬼丁巳火     ▅▅▅▅▅ 子孙庚子水  
The authority does not believe in the girl's story (child line 4 hai water is the empty element under the month and date).
The evidence does not stick (3.5, 3.2 are xu earth, chen earth). Xu earth is the empty element under the month and year. Since everything is earth, it is no one's place to get involved with someone's family affair.
You have to stay within your boundary. 3.1 and 3.6 are child line zi water which couples to the parents or authority.
There is little that you can do about it, but to back off at the appropriate times.

There is a female in line 2. She is backing off. Hexagram 58 is a dispute between 2 females.
 

Zimbali

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IMHO - In matters concerning legality, child welfare, run away minors, so on, in major issues and circumstances the right thing to do, is always to communicate and co-operate with the legally responsible authorities as a matter of urgency.

I think, if before coming to that conclusion, you decide rather to consult the Yijing, then I think there is a major problem that needs recognizing.

For example an airline pilot carrying passengers, gets into difficulty after take-off, should he follow set procedures, or consult the Yijing?

I think if beliefs regarding divination have got to that type of level, there is a significant problem that needs professional psychological assistance.

In my view there are merits for self reflection, and self analysis. However there are also issues such as delusional reasoning, and problems with accepting reality, as well as developing unhealthy dependencies.
 

Trojina

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Re read the thread. Moss Elk already clearly said he is working with the child protection agency and the police over the runaway girl. He was already in touch with the authorities when he asked the question.

The question is not about the girl but some crime a long time ago not connected with her.


Read this earlier post

Let me clarify. I am working with the police and child protection regarding the runaway.
i have no reason to believe the runaway has been sexually abused, only verbally and physically.
(Excessive/unwarranted hitting)

The crime i did the reading about, if it occurred at all, would have happened 30 years before the girls birth.
it has nothing whatsoever to do with her.
 

moss elk

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IMHO - In matters concerning legality, child welfare, run away minors, so on, in major issues and circumstances the right thing to do, is always to communicate and co-operate with the legally responsible authorities as a matter of urgency.

I think, if before coming to that conclusion, you decide rather to consult the Yijing, then I think there is a major problem that needs recognizing.

For example an airline pilot carrying passengers, gets into difficulty after take-off, should he follow set procedures, or consult the Yijing?

I think if beliefs regarding divination have got to that type of level, there is a significant problem that needs professional psychological assistance.

In my view there are merits for self reflection, and self analysis. However there are also issues such as delusional reasoning, and problems with accepting reality, as well as developing unhealthy dependencies.
Thank you. Your concerns are certainly valid and worth keeping in mind.
This may clarify more: I have been taking decisive and immediate action throughout this.
The readings i've done have been early in the morning just after waking while drinking a cup of coffee.
They have not delayed me from taking any action, they were done concurrently with drinking a cup of coffee in the morning before putting my shoes on. Referencing your analogy of the pilot: I am the pilot in the morning at home before he has gone to the airport who heard the night before from a possibly questionable source that bad weather is on the way. So, i turn on the weather channel to see if the information i was given was accurate. If i encounter a problem while in the cockpit, then i would follow the proper protocol of my training.

The Detectives i spoke with and i both discussed the possibility that the story was bullshit made up by a bully to frighten a child.

Good news: the protection authorities came out yesterday and interviewed the girl for an hour,
Then interviewed me for 30 minutes. The agent came out and told us that the girl would not be returned home and would become a ward of the state. (Yes this seemed an early statement in the process, but the agent seemed fiery and adamant about this) More good news, the girls math teacher pulled her out of class and told her that she would volunteer to foster/adopt her.
 
B

blue_angel

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First I adore the detail in your response with the cup of coffee, weather report, before putting on shoes bit. (Not that, that matters) but loved it so much had to comment.

Second YAY!!!!!! lol, I literally teared up! That's so awesome! Especially the teacher... it was often teachers that saved me too or at least gave me inspiration to carry on another day. Earth angels. My heart is touched. I was worried you weren't going to update but you did. Thank you for sharing! And I will send prayers and wishes for the teacher and girl.

You did a great thing. You were a part of a great thing. Nice. :hug:
 

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