58 line 5 recurring

[void]

Hi, there are times as you have probably experienced, where you get the same hexagram over and over to a variety of questions. I've read here what this might mean, ie it refers to something pretty fundamental in your life, lieing beneath the question asked - yet to be honest I've never fathomed it in my own case.

Yesterday I threw 58 line 5 with regard to a relationship and thought I understood its meaning pretty well. Today i asked a question concerning a meeting at work and received the same, hex 58, line 5. This is also fairly understandable to me but as I've received it twice I'm trying to see a bit deeper into the meaning of this line incase Im missing something.

My understanding of it is not to rely or set too much store by something which is disintegrating it will only bring a dubious kind of pleasure or fulfillment. If you have any further ideas it would be good to hear them.

i would also like to know how you respond inwardly when you get the same hex, same moving line repeatedly - do you feel the Yi jing is trying to show something you are just not comprehending ?

 

[pagan]

Hi Void,
I read 58 line 5 as a influence that keeps you from feeling integrated. It is 'dis' integrating. In other words, if you are sincere towards people who aren't really taking you seriously or considering your value, it will end up dis-integrating you.
P.

 

[bradford_h]

Hi-
the word translated disintegraing here is Bo. This is also the name of Hexagram 23 (Splitting Apart).
The Zhi Gua is 54, Marrying Maiden, indicating haste and shortsightedness, but line 5 is the best - the maiden wants be like the waxing moon instead of the full moon because once the moon is full it starts to decline. Hence the meaning of 58.5, looking for joy in something which cannot be sustained. We want to put our hopes in the things with a future and use our undestanding instead for the things with little future.

 

[seeker]

Interesting that you got the same answer for different aspects of your life. Perhaps the disintergrating influence is something within yourself. Karcher says of this line, confront and strip away old ideas. Perhaps there is an attitude or behavior that is common to many aspects of your life,ie you react the same whether it is a personal relationship, work situation etc. But it is something that is actually sabotaging you and needs to change. The only reason I say that is that I think there has to be some connection between the different areas of your life when you receive the same answer for different questions. Perhaps you can see a different connection???

 

[jte]

"I'm trying to see a bit deeper into the meaning of this line incase Im missing something. "

I actually get this line fairly frequently, too. Legge's translation for 58.5 speaks of "trusting in one who would injure you" - I think this idea can be applied very generally. Some examples would be a person who is untrustworthy and manipulating you. Can also be a thing that's fun but really dangerous, like the smoker or heroin addict who love their poison.

An example from my life: I got this line prior to accepting a ride from a rowdy teenager driving a clunker - he drove like a NUTCASE and the car could have had a breakdown anytime. Cranking rock music to boot. It *was*, in fact, quite fun in a teenage sort of way, but it was also genuinely dangerous (and at 37, I'm just too old for that stuff ;-) ).

Anyhow, that's another possible meaning for that line - you asked for depth, but I think this is maybe more breadth.

Best,

- Jeff

 

[void]

Thanks all for your interesting replies. pagan and Bradford showed me aspects I had not seen before which were very apt.

Seeker and Jte if I'm getting this line for different areas of my life perhaps it must mean I am generally trusting in, or investing time and energy and a certain amount of devotion to people and situations which are really not profitable to myself at all. Being sincere to the wrong things, or things that are no longer important.

If thats so, next I must find what IS worth being sincere towards. Hope I got the message right, if thats what the message is its calling for quite a big turnaround.

 

[seeker]

A big turnaround? Oh yeah, Yi is very good at asking for that. My last year is a great testament to that. But the great thing is it is generally worth it. It can be difficult, but it never leads you anywhere except where you need to be. I'm still traveling towards wherever that is, but so far, the journey has been well worth it. and the nice thing is, there are people here who will help you along the way

 

[void]

Tonite I received hex 8, line 3, twice. I was feeling some agitation because my new contract for work has some incorrect details (salary). I had asked my boss and he said "just correct the figure, sign it and return it." I was not too happy to do that and am always feeling a certain amount of anxiety over issues like this in my job - possibly undue anxieties. I asked Yi should i do as he said and got 8,line 3 - which I took as a no. I decided to return the contract unsigned with a letter requesting they send a new contract with the right details. My mind state became increasingly agitated, basically worry they will not pay me what they owe etc.. I realised i was getting a bit neurotic over this, thought my agitation was disproportionate to the situation - I asked Yi how do i deal with this kind of frame of mind in myself and got 8 line 3 again. In this situation would you think the Yi is saying that it is something, a group outside myself, that i should not be involved with ?

My first question was very much a "should I do as I've been advised" question - a question concerning the outer world. But my second question was more about how to deal with distrust and agitation within myself - and yet the response seems pretty outer directed ? The most literal interpretation being i should not be working with this group (this company)

If anyone would give me their thoughts I would be grateful - same issue when i receive a hex more than once in one sitting I think I should really pay attention - yet I don't know if its saying get out of this company ?

 

[jeanystar]

dear Void,
Was the second 58.5 referring to the same work situation/company as 8.3 ?

If so, I would certainly assume there is something not exactly right about this company and your association with them.

Your second question about dealing with your mistrust and agitation seems to say that your mistrust may be warranted, an intuitive response from your gut. I think you did the right thing by requesting a new contract. You are being advised to protect yourself. To trust your sense of distrust.

58.5 twice and then 8.3 twice... That is pretty strong. 8.3 is pretty clear about associations, not merely your own mind-set. Karcher says "a group of worthless people". Another text I have says to "avoid too intimate an association with this group while maintaining outward sociability."
There is possibly an element of danger in the long term outlook.

In my (humble) experience, the Yi sometimes can exaggerate to make a point.....hence, it could have been warning you about the faulty contract details, rather than the company in general......but I would still be cautious in your shoes. Don't sign anything until you are certain details are correct,above board...and practical in the long-term glance.

JMHO.
wishing you the best, J

 

[jte]

Hrmmm. Looking at all this a slighty different way, maybe the "union" with the unfit is signing the contract even though it has errors. And the people with the potential to cause you injury are simply being careless, not dishonest, in the details of the contract. (And your boss, too, for urging you to sign it anyhow.)

So the attention-getting sequences *may* have been mostly about that contract error.

"But my second question was more about how to deal with distrust and agitation within myself - and yet the response seems pretty outer directed ?" Perhaps just showing both cause and effect in the case of 8.3 - both are mentioned in the line.

So, maybe, one down? Was there another area of life you were looking at in addition to the work situation for 58.5 or was that the only context?

- Jeff

 

[void]

Hi Jeanystar. Yes 58,5 came in me asking if I shd meet with my boss to sort a few things out - some pertaining my own concerns re pay and how office restructuring would affect me, but also to discuss the inefficiency of the system I work within. On getting 58,5 I decided not to go and see him - that my energy would be wasted, and some part of me thinks this whole scene is on the way out for me (maybe) Next day I got a new contract in the post - my boss had given me no warning of this, to be truthful I do not trust what he says, not because he is a bad man, he just doesn't keep his word and seems careless.
I got 8,3 in regard to the contract as discussed above so yes 58,5 and 8,3 were linked. I agree Yi does seem to exagerate to make a pont, but I think you're right, the evidence is quite strong and my gut feelings wouldn't normally be so itchy over nothing. I will be careful but something tells me this situation isn't going to last - but it is my source of money right now. Asking how if not this job from where to earn my money I got 2,line 1 last nite - another sign of deterioration i think.

Jte you have approached from an unusual angle, and it always suprises me how literal yi can be sometimes. In other words you are saying the line may signify simply what is happening , I 'join' sign with something incorrect.

In answer to your question the first time I threw 58,5 it was nothing to do with work at all. I was asking about a relationship with someone that had gone wrong yet for which I still yearned for something from, although I'm not sure what as it was pretty disastrous. I took it clearly as saying I was misguided in placing my desire and sincere feeling there - it was a dis-integrating influence as Pagan put it above. Then I threw it again in regard to meeting with my boss and then I was puzzled so posted here. In that meeting I wanted to tell him how badly things were going wrong in the way the company operates, from the vantage pont of my role I can see some pretty bad inefficiences. But then I think Yi is saying don't waste throwing energy around there - I doubt he would be interested anyway.
Then I get new contract and throw 8,3 twice.

 

[jte]

So, I guess the question now is, is the 8.3 situation over now that you've dealt appropriately with the contract or not... You might consider asking followup questions to find that out.

Best,

- Jeff

 

[void]

Yes thanks Jeff thats a good idea - thats the sort of question I would never think of asking, ie is the 8,3 situation still there - I never approach from that way round if you see what I mean - asking Yi about a situation it has presented back to me - anyway I much appreciate the clarity of your thinking, thankyou.