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ann

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I'd really appreciate a little insight on an answer I got this morning.

I have to put together an estimate for a series of workshops for an existing client. They will be hard work to run and for a group of people who have proved a tad difficult to teach in the past. I asked 'how should I approach charging for this work', and in my mind I was considering a price that includes the development work, and is therefore a little more than I usually charge. I still think it's a reasonable, and in no way greedy price though.

The answer I got was a single 58. Given the idea of the two lakes, is this referring to our two companies' mutual dependency? We do have good and friendly relations with our immediate clients.

Any insights will be very gratefully received!

Thank you

Ann
 

frandoch

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Hi Ann,
This is an auspiscous answer. It's about your honest integrity. Put aside negative feelings - you don't need them. And I don't think mutual dependency is right - more mutual benefit. But whatever you decide to do, be gentle and modest, but that doesn't mean undercutting your true worth. If you don't hold your work in high regard, and to be of value, why should anyone else?

Aside from the hexagram, my advice would be - decide what you're worth and put in the estimate. There are no guarantees, but you're well equipped to handle whatever comes.

And if you can't this time, make sure that in future, you can walk away, you can afford to lose it. Then, you will never have to accept less than you're worth.

Michael F.
 

chrislofting

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Hi Ann,

the trigram of lake has two distinct expressions, one in the lower position where it represents self-reflection. In the upper position it represents self-reflection doubled - and so a concept of intensity in reflection.

Note that the self-reflection is not just reflection UPON yourself but also reflection OF yourself - IOW there is a literal emphasis on reflection as in a mirror.

Thus the lake is DEEP but also the surface highly reflective.

Being a mirror so you allow others to see themselves in you. IOW the whole section of hexagrams with lake as a base represent reflection issues (e.g. 41 with a focus on concentration/distillation and so 'decrease'. 38 with a focus on putting up a mirror to avoid oppositions, let 'them' see themselves in you etc - the full set:

19 - focus on balance, 'reflection of sameness' and so low approachs high etc.
41 - concentrate, distill (and if the process fails then you have a 'decrease'! ;-))
60 - standardisations and so 'sameness', reflection etc
61 - yielding core, sympathise, emphathy represents a 'reflection'
54 - intensity in initial expression
38 - deal with opposition through reflection
58 - self-reflection/intensity
10 - intense focus on a path, conduct etc

From a persona perspective hexagram 58 maps to what the trigram lake seems to relate in the MBTI - to entertainers, performers, appreciators, players and an overall focus on cooperative exchange (in five phase it maps to the realm of METAL) and so a degree of 'showbiz' ;-) focus on exaggerations, make things 'entertaining' and so memorable.

In the really basic level of meanings, hex 58 is 'expansive bonding' doubled. expansive means to relate outwards. Bonding means to share the same space with another/others - and so focus on the relationship of someone with an audience etc.

This is a cooperative form of exchange, the focus is on REPLACEMENT of something existing with somethingelse, something considered 'better'.

The replacement focus here is to replace by diluting what needs to be replaced - iow you flood the context with copies of yourself, ideology, etc

e.g. the Chinese are doing this in Tibet - to deal with nationalism (and so a concentration) they have encouraged immigration of more 'Han-like' individuals and so dilute the concentration. (see how 41 fits into all of this? ;-))

Another example of these sorts of issues is in France where the language has been 'diluted' with English terms etc and so a push to restore the 'purity' of the language through coining French terms rather than adopting English terms!

This form of replacement is 'softly softly' and not so 'in your face' as the more 'heaven' trigram methods can be where replacement is competitive and so focused on explicit 'erradication' etc.

IOW lake is not as totalist, not as singlecontext as heaven but it is still intense in expression.

Chris.
 
A

ann

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Michael and Chris,

Thank you both very much :)

Your posts made perfect sense to me and I'm very grateful to you.

Michael, thank you for the 'you're worth it' message. It's one I'm working on - but this client is a huge multinational and uses its buying power to beat down the little guys. However, I shall try to put the price up a little. What we also get is a jolly good reference on our corporate CV!

And Chris, thank you for such a long and thoughtful post. MTBI makes perfect sense - and I'm a 6 metal in the 9 star astrology (about which I know very little indeed). I've printed your post for future reference when I get 'lake' readings.

Thanks again both of you.

Ann
 

joang

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Ann,
Tui is also the image of an open mouth. What I see in this hexagram are the two open mouths, Tui doubled... a discussion... in the context of your question, a negotiating session about your fee. I'm sure you know more about win-win negotiating than I do, since you are a business owner; and therefore already know how to go about it in a friendly way.

But Tui also means metal, weapons... which in this context could mean defensive, argumentative. If you go in feeling defensive about your fee, you might be tempted to pull out your biggest defensive weapons... not very conducive to a favorable outcome. A good way to keep your bull in check :), is to listen attentively to your client's side, and then calmly respond in a friendly way with your side of the issue. And of course, give yourself some negotiating room at the start, so that you won't feel you have to hold your ground at all costs. That way, both sides can leave the table joyously, and you maintain your friendly relationship with your client for future business. I hope it goes that way.

Namaste,
Joan G.
 

chrislofting

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Good point Joang.

From the 'ICPlus Black Box' we find that the raw qualities of hexagram 58 reflects the mixing of:

hexagram 10 - treading
hexagram 06 - compromising

The overall focus in exchange is of a cooperative format but the lingering presence of strong yang elements still allow for a competitive edge.

in the set of lake-based hexagrams the 'other end' of the sequence is hex 19 that is more relaxed in approaching for cooperation. It appears to have its roots in the mix of the basic qualities of hexagram 41 and hexagram 04.

In five-phase the lake and heaven trigrams map to the phase of METAL that in Western terms reflects a phase of EXCHANGE. Lake is cooperative exchange. Heaven is competitive exchange.

The overall focus in EXCHANGE is on REPLACEMENT of something with something 'better'. The cooperative format is replacement through replication. The competitive format is replacement through erradication.

Thus we see the close links of sexual love and anger - as we find when we map emotions to binary orderings -

http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/emote.html

Chris.
 
A

ann

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Well, I'm kind of kicking myself this morning. I put in a price, then realised that in the way I said it I've left myself open to them trying to halve it!
footinmouth.gif
So as you both say, lots of room to negotiate.

However, price is always going to be a tough one with this particular client, so we are doing our best to attract new business, and there I do put in sensible prices, which seem to be no problem at all. I think the large multinationals are a law unto themselves. On the plus side, we do enjoy teaching there, and we do make some money, so it's not all bad news. The metal is on their side Joan - their procurement people use great big tanks on little people like us!

We are a tiny company, just starting out really, so this is by no means a terrible situation.

Thank you both for your help.

Ann
 

joang

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My dear Ann,
I am indeed sorry. That premature slip of the lip probably did undercut your bargaining position; but take heart, you may still be able to salvage the situation if the final decision has not yet been made regarding your fee, and that an opportunity for further discussion is still open. I surmise that is the case?

Chris made a point that may show you the way. He said,?The overall focus in EXCHANGE is on REPLACEMENT of something
with something 'better'.?

I think if you can find a way to stress how much BETTER for the client the service you are now proposing to provide is, and make your increased costs and labor the SECONDARY issue, that might just shift the focus in your favor. What do you think?

Namaste,
Joan G.
 
A

ann

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Thank you Joan

It's all gone quiet on the western front now and I'm about to go on holiday, which I sorely need. I appreciate your comments and will certainly try to put them into practice. They will be very useful when negotiating with new clients, so perhaps all this worry will be worth it in the end. I probably won't post here for a while, so Joan especially, good luck with your project!

Anne
 

joang

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Thank you, Anne, and I wish you the same. Enjoy your holiday. Looking forward to chatting with you again.

Namaste,
Joan G.
 

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