59.3.6

[seeker]

I am having some trouble relating to this answer. Things have not been going well with this new guy. He is Romanian, I am American, and we have discovered major philosophical and religious differences. He has been very clear that he does not want a serious relationship right now, stated initially that due to the pain of betrayal from his ex-wife, his heart is frozen. I was willing to give him time, thought maybe I could help him work through it, and the answers I got from Yi seemed to support that.

But lately he has decided he wants no relationship at all, just a sexual thing, maybe occasionally going out, and he has been very hurtful. There are times when he shows no regard for my feelings. He wants someone like him, and refuses to bend in any of his ideas. He thinks the woman should follow the husband. A quote from one of his emails, the woman has to accept the man as her authority, running to his arms to ask for guidance and receiving love and respect. I was pretty much ready to just walk away, but when I asked what to do, I got 59.3.6. 59 is usually about reunion and 3 and 6 seems to say to put my own considerations aside and find a way to work things out. Am I misreading this? Or is possible that Yi has a reason here that I don't understand yet. I believe that sometimes we are brought into other peoples lives briefly, to learn or teach or both. That could certainly be true here, I have learned some things about myself being with him, and I think he has a lot to learn, IMHO

Just like to be sure I am getting it right.

Please answer within the context of the reading. I know there are several women here even more strong willed than I am whose reaction would be kick him to the curb regardless of the reading. But I really want to know what Yi is saying. Thanks for the help.

 

[seeker]

2 other questions to see if I coul clarification:

what affect of this relationship for me? 54.5.6

what affect for him? 4.1.25

ok, still looking at those interpretation but thought I would see what you guys thought. thanks again.

 

[seeker]

Just a side note, asked if Yi believed that men were superior to women, 16.6 which talks about delusion, I like that

 

[mst]

Hi Seeker

An interesting note, certainly an area that requires careful thought to move forward. I am to from a religion that believes in a similar tradition, although I must say in the UK and the modern world it's impossible expect these from a wife/partner. It is all about give and take, but some people are brought up in such a way that tradition is so strong that principle mean everything and relationships are secondary, i'm not sure what the real reason were for his wife to betray him (reflect on this for a moment) i'm not sure why he is getting so head strong with religion, although I sense fear in him, fear to loose something again that could mean so much to him. However, I feel he expects a sacrifice from you as he will also be making one to be with you (if that makes sense?) find a common subject, this will allow you to enter into his feelings, I would suggest you follow the flow, be ready and allow him to lead the way, although you may not like what he is saying, this is what he has been brought in to life believing, and forcing your views will not create any harmony, this relationship will require alot of flexibility, more so from you, that is if you want this to work(you have a choice) what seems to be almost exempt from this note is the real reason for the conflict, ask yourself, what is really at work here?
what is the conflict? as you will need to remove this conflict to be able to move forward...only you know this..I am working on 59 as you mentioned ...................................................I hope you get what you want............. Thanks Mander

 

[pagan]

Seeker,
I truly believe that you dont' need the ICHING to give you this answer. His behavior has already said it all. 59.3 is "you don't count" and 59.6 is "get out of harms way".

Put all your energy into making yourself into the best person you can be until the right person comes along. When that person comes along, you will absolutely know it.
P.

 

[julie]

I think this is pretty unambiguous -- though as soon as I write that, I imagine someone I respect will come in with another interpretation. 59 is dispersion, things falling apart, going your separate ways. Appreciate what you've gotten from him and move on.

 

[seeker]

Thanks Mander, yes that is what I have been thinking, just not sure it is worth it. It may required more sacrifice than I can or am willing to make. I have come out of a very bad marriage, and one of the things I have discoverd in counseling is that I tend to lose myself in the person I am with, becoming what they want me to be. I do not want to do that again, but do not see any way to make this relationship work without doing so.

Pagan, curious as to where you got your interpretations, they make sense, but I do not have anything like that. The one discussion I found in the archives defined 59 and especially lines 3 and 6 as reunion through giving up selfishness. Unless those lines refer to him, but I was asking what I should do. Could line 3 be describing him and why I should follow line 6? Actually 6 threw me because the interpretations were different depending on the source. Denning and Huang talk about leaving the situation, but the others just seemed to say avoid conflict, and Wilhelm mentions saving kin from danger.

At this point, I am definately leaning towards your interpretation though. He cancelled on me for the 5th time in a row tonight. Somethign always comes up with friends or family, and he always cancels on me, instead of telling them he already has plans. As you said Pagan, it is obvious I do not count to him at all. This is not what he told me he wanted in the beginning, and it is definately not what I wanted. I am going to give myself a day or two to calm down, do not want to this in anger, but unless I get some serious indication that this is the wrong course of action, I am going to end this and find someone else who appreciates me.

 

[seeker]

Oops, missed yours Julie, we were typing about the same time. Again, which interpretation did you use? Mine do use the term dispersion, but go on to say talk about eliminating misunderstandings and uniting people, which is why I am confused. I just do not see how to that in this case. BTW, asked if I should end it and got 52, sigh.

 

[jeanystar]

seeker, the 59.6 could also be referring to your daughter.
a man with the attitude of not wanting a relationship, only sex, and who discounts your feelings and is hurtful to you..well, not a good model of a healthy relationship to a young impressionable.......to say the least.

And this is just the courtship phase? It is downhill from here. 54.6 > empty of everything fruitful. You are treading on the tail of a tiger.

in both readings, the first changing line seems to refer to what you are considering....and the last changing line , the result.
59.3 > putting all personal concerns aside for the benefit of another in which you will
prosper(?). 59.6 >danger to you and your kin.

54.5 > taking a subordinate role in order to serve another.....54.6> an empty gesture, no fruit in the basket.

dont even think about it. kick him to the curb.

with love.

 

[julie]

I was looking at Huang. I was also just relying on my experience with the hexagram. It's a flood: destructive, but making room for new growth. The question in interpreting it is what precisely is getting washed away, and if you had a really strong sense that this guy was really great, and the Yi had been reflecting that all along, then maybe you'd want to think hard about whether something other than him is getting washed away. But given the overall picture, I think it's pretty clear: out with him! You deserve, and will get, better.

 

[seeker]

Thanks for the help guys. Both interpretations ring true, especially the part about my daughter. Initially, it did seem like there was something and I was getting encouragement from Yi, but then it suddenly shifted. I think this experience is like the one with Thomas, something I needed to do to learn and grow and get where I needed to be next, just another link in the chain. I felt bad for him after he told me about how his ex-wife cheated on him and hurt him so bad, and how he felt his heart was frozen. I wanted to help him, but now I wonder if there was not more to her leaving. I am also beginning to wonder if he played me. I don't know, maybe he is doing this out of fear, but at this point I do not think there is any more I can do in this situation, for him or me. Guess I will just get back to my life and prepare for the next link in the chain

 

[anita]

Hi Seeker,

I too misunderstood hex 59 not so long ago. I wondered too whether this was "reunion" or going separate ways - dispersing. I was to find that it was reunion and also dispersing! Can get very confusing. But where 54 line 6 is concerned, it definitely means no way. Ah, one gets over things if one is strong, and I'm sure you can.
Best for your Quest
Anita

 

[pargenton]

Hi all,
Sorry for your situation Seeker; would like to discuss a bit the answer since I too was initially puzzled too by this answer (59.3.6).

I'm consulting Balkin: quoting "lines 2,3,4,5 dissolving means eliminating anger, egotism, parochialism, and discord (respectively) in order to create unity. In line six, unity may no longer be possible and dissolving primarily means avoiding danger."

So I offer the following interpretation, the two moving lines represents possible lines of action (the original question was "what to do?".

59.3 is an alternative in which you dissolve yourself, a kind of self sacrifice, in order to achieve union, i.e. forget about yourself etc.etc..

59.6 is the other alternative, and pretty clearly says "stay away from this man, protect people close to you" (your daughter?). There is also a hint of possible violence (from this man?).

So the choice seems obvious, 59.6, unless you are a martyr; but why then in 59.3 "regrets vanish" ?

The situation and advices seems clear, but I would like some clarification on 59.3, for Yi this seems a possible line of action, given the situation I still do not understand it fully, I agree with you , Pagan, 59.3="you do not count", but I do not understand the "regrets vanish" .

Hugs
Paolo

 

[seeker]

Thank you both for your replies. Yes, Paolo the regrets vanish confused me too, thats why I thought maybe I was being advised to stay, but then there was line 6. I finally decided I needed to follow my own instincts within the confines of the answer. I was having all of these doubts and realized that I was doing in this relationship what I did with my exhusband, ignoring all the red flags because I wanted to be with someone. It took me 8 years to figure out my ex, that the person I thought he was was just a facade, a sort of costume he put on to manipulate me, but the real person was controlling and cruel. AFter his accident he seemed less able to sustain the facade and the real him began to emerge more often, culminating in my falling out of love with him and finally finding the strength to leave and move on. This guy seemed to have some of those tendencies, being amazingly sweet and vulnerable when he was here, but then being cold and unfeeling on the phone, and then telling me how he was raised that the man was supposed to be in charge and women were inferior. I think that last was what did it. I spent 8 years in a marrage being made to feel worthless, I can't be with someone who thinks I am less than they are in any way. He might be a good person, and maybe this is all just his fear talking, but I don't think I am the one to help him move on.

Anyway, I sent an email ending it last night and got back a scathing one from him this morning, he was obviously very hurt. Asked if I should answer and got 52.1.2.6,which I took to tell me not to back down now or change my course just to please someone else. I asked if I messed this up and got 51.1.2. That seems pretty clear that I made the right decision and can look forward to better times. Back to the drawing board I guess

Thanks again for the help everyone.

 

[RindaR]

Seeker,

IMNSHO, you did exactly the right ting, _and you helped him_ by responding in an authentic manner. You gave him the unmistakeable message that this behavior/attitude is not acceptable. In a situation like this, there is no other way to "help".

Rinda - sending kudoes...

 

[seeker]

I am actually very proud of myself. I was able to recognize that I was repeating some of my old patterns/mistakes and extricate myself from the situation. I was also able to stop myself from responding to him this morning. I thought about it after I got the 52 and realized that I was still doing it, still trying to make things be the way I wanted. I only wanted to respond to try to convince him to change, to think differently, so we could work things out, and that was not going to happen. I also like to have the last word, its hereditary

But I let it go and moved on, huge, huge stride for me. So I will humbly pat myself on the back and take a bow. A toast to me

 

[yellowknife]

Still inspiring.
Drinking a sip of Merlot in your honour.
Like what Rinda said about the only way to help being to authentically tell him his behaviour isn't acceptable.
I can sometimes mistake "helping" for "putting up with anything"

 

[seeker]

Thank you, and yes, that is what it meant, putting up with anything. To him, it seemed that that was what relationships were all about, the woman putting up with and accepting whatever the man gives her. We went out for 2 months, and it that time he cancelled on my 5 times because something would come up with friends or family, he never once told them he already had plans, would just blow me off instead. And he hurt my feelings several times and never once apologized. That is not the kind of relationship I want or need. Even being alone is better than that. Cheers, I'll take a glass of that Merlot.