59.4.5

[firehorse]

Does anyone have a good feel for this one? I received this message twice in two days...about a difficult relationship. I always have difficuty with 59...from what I can understand, I'm being told to dissolve the difficulties. The resulting or relating is 64. Should I walk away and forget about it? Or is this something that I should rememdy? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[ewald]

Hi Firehorse - What it means depends on what you asked. Could you state the exact questions you asked the Yi when you received 59.4.5?

 

[firehorse]

Hi Ewald,

Thank you for responding. To be honest, I don't quite remember how I phrased the the first question. It was psycho obsessive babble about this person that I used to be involved with, that I see frequently, and with whom I realized that I still love, even though we have apart longer than we were ever together. I have literally cut myself off from him, in order to try to heal myself.

The second question referred to whether the limiting myself from him and avoiding him is the right way to handle the situation. I don't want to hurt anymore, but I don't like the idea of hurting someone else either.

It's a very complicated situation. We see each other frequently, he still seems to want to maintain a connection to me. I have difficulty seeing him as just a friend...which I realize is my problem. I seem to get stuck on not wanting more from him. The "change of state" from liquid to gas, etc., does sort of make sense here, but I don't know if I'm going about it the right way. I don't really understand the line detail, and I was wondering if it was offering clues as to how to move on successfully.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

 

[void]

Ewald I make the changing lines 1,4, 5 and 6.

Probably changing lines here less important than the movement of 59 to 54. 54 is about accepting being second best (sometimes). So my take on your reading is yes give him up, let your attachment to him dissolve. What it dissolves into, a secondary position as a 'friend' is actually not that attractive to you so you may wish to remove yourself altogether, which line 6 of 59 describes.

 

[ewald]

Void - Firehorse said that the resulting hexagram is 64, not 54. Changing lines are correct.

 

[void]

Ooh yes sorry. Er well that changes things a bit then. I think I'll go back to bed.

 

[ewald]

Hi Firehorse - Seems that different translators translate these lines differently, which doesn't make things easier to understand. This is how I translate

59.4:
<blockquote>Dispersing the group.
A source of good fortune:
Dispersion makes space,
which is usually not considered.</blockquote> and 59.5:
<blockquote>Scattering sweat with a loud cry.
Dispersing the king's residence.
Without fault.</blockquote>
My interpretation is that the advice given by the Yi is to remove yourself from him, not form a "group" with him, to end this "sweaty" (uncomfortable) situation. This has the benefit of allowing room for someone (or something) else to enter your life. So it doesn't seem like a bad idea to avoid this person, as you are doing. However, if you need to put too much energy into avoiding someone, you're still attached to him, and you're not really making space.

 

[firehorse]

Thank you Ewald...it's good to know that I'm doing the right thing.
Not to sell Ewald short, but does anyone else see anything differently? Or the same?

 

[femke]

Hi Firehorse

I think it's a beaufitul synchronicic answer. You asked:"whether the limiting myself from him and avoiding him is the right way to handle the situation". I Ching rephrases the limiting and avoiding to dispersing. Which sounds like the same movement with a completely opposite effect.
What I think: I Ching strongly advises to detach yourself from him. In order to find the underlying principal that binds you and other people. As the commentary in Wilhelm states with line 5: in times of overall apathy, a great, suggestive thought is a true salvation.
64 is about a whole new start, fresh possibilities.
You're stuck, but you are able to dissolve your obsessive, limited codependence on him, and exchange it for a freeing vision of love which will attract him and/or others rather than going after him.
You are able to, because the I Ching gives these two beautiful lines, twice even.
Good luck Firehorse! PLEASE let me/us know how things evolve, I'd like to know what happens, and also if my interpretations make sense in real life!

Love, Femke

 

[firehorse]

Hi Femke,

This is the sort of thoughts that I had been having...with the help of the I-Ching. I have been making myself too available to him, so he takes me for granted. Maybe. But in reality, I have been holding on for something more, like we used to have. I have been stagnating with the interactions, and it has prevented me from "moving on."

I love the way you worded this...it gives me great hope. Not of hope with him, but of hope for myself, that maybe something good will come.

Speaking of synchronicity..if there were any doubts of the I-Ching, this one clears the air for me (not that I really doubted, it's just that my understanding is limited). I asked this morning..."So, I am to just walk away, close this door, so to speak."

9.1 to 57

Lise speaks of 9.1 as "going my own way." I interpret this is doing what I have been doing, and not worrying about what he thinks or hurting him. "Not much holding me back" I think I read somewhere on this forum. Except my own mind. I think this means that I have been holding on to something that won't require much to get over. I think.

57.1 Quit being so wishy-washy about it and just do it.

Any other thoughts?

 

[firehorse]

Anyone?

 

[frank]

Hi Firehorse.

I feel difficulties in answering this post, as you made desitions already...

Hug,
Frank

 

[firehorse]

Does that mean that you disagree? I'm just looking to expand my understanding here, Frank...I'm very open-minded and quite the novice. If you have something to add, please do so. I have read many of your postings before, and you seem to have a clarity that I can only hope to acheive someday.

I wouldn't even post here if I was sure of what I was doing...after all, the ultimate choice is mine

 

[frank]

Wow Firehorsy... I have a clarity you only hope to achieve some day... now you are underastimating yourself... Gee :-D... and me blushing... Gosh...

But anyway, since you asked... ra pa pa pa...

59 to me is NOT about disolving HIM, but the, what you call 'psycho babble'... and by reading lines 4 & 5... as I read then these days, in form... changing lines are YANG, and non changing lines YIN, so 4 & 5 makes 45... (can you follow?)
45 is about consiuousness, and collecting them... Become aware what you want... and then by getting into 64 you begin to it with a new aproach and experience in the backpack...

Hexagram 9 is about details... WHAT do you realy want... and do not listen to your head here...
By changing into 57 it is about getting things clear in detail (wind blows things away...). Did you actualy see something here??? As 59 is WIND above mountain... 9 IS WIND above heaven... 57 IS WIND ABOVE WIND... THE YI IS SAYING SOMETHING HERE.. PAY ATTENTION TO THE WIND, AND HE / SHE DOES NOT MEAN THAT STUFF THAT'S COMMIN FROM YOUR BEHIND... Duh...

Does the wind, erosion, study, getting deeper into it, say something to you... as 59 is Wind above mountain, and mountain is 'thoughts'... like in 52 standstill, is about getting stillness in the body, so also in your thoughts... Getting deeper into what you THINK... Disolve what you think? Phew, and you said things between HIM and you where complicated? Gee, look at this question... starts to become that too :-D...
9 is Wind above Heaven... heaven is ideas... ha thoughts AGAIN... Wind above Wind... 57...
Are your thoughts going like a jojo these days :-D? Gee...

I hope you can forgive this crap... and I wish you all the best with whatever you are doing...

Huggie,
Frank

 

[frank]

O my god... O my god... please forgive me... 59 is NOT Wind above mountain... it's FIRE above mountain... Darn... you see, I can see things in a fog too :-D... But Fire is about clarity... Getting things clear by moving the obstacles away still stands...

And now I go to spank myself for this umiliasion of my superiority in reading the Yi...

auch... auch... auch... o, go on... (whoops, wrong Internetsite...)

Hug,
Frank

 

[frank]

O no, I realy need new glasses!!! 59 is WIND (indeed), but NOT above Mountain, but above the water... AAArgh :-D... My whole story still stands though (phew :-D)...

Water is about emotions... perhaps the thoughts are controling the emotions to strong and by stopping the psychobabble they do no longer?

Now I need a HUG...
Franky...

 

[firehorse]

Big Huggy, Frank.

Okay, methinks I'm a little lost.

Dumb it down a bit...you're saying you think I think too much? I have to admit, that would make sense. I spend a lot of time alone these days, and thinking is what I do best.

Is this what you are saying? Just let go of the thoughts?

 

[frank]

Hi Firehorse,

Euh, yep, that's actually my point... Ahum, and it took me four posts... gee :-D... Did not eat much today and had other stuff on my mind, so that must have been it... Yep, you have to control the to much obsessed thoughts (are they??) about this situation. Consiousness is involved and confrontation with your own path... what do you realy want...

And ofcource, I'm human, I make mistakes... so this could be rubish... :-D.

Thanks for the hug, I can lay my head to a rest now, and see you guys (and girls :-D) in the morning (it's past midnight here in the Netherlands...)

HUG back,
Frank

 

[bruce]

So Kay, Frank, it happens to all of us.

Firehorse, there's been some wonderful points made about your reading. I like them all, though I found myself nodding with Femke's interpretation most.

One thing I'd add about 64, but it's really only an extension of what Femke has already said. There is a special beauty in seeing things through the eyes of 64. There is no need to name a relationship this or that. It can be by simply just being what it naturally is. This is the sort of detachment I believe Femke referred to. You have this opportunity to be free, and that freedom gives you levity and an inner glow; the kind people are naturally attracted to, including this friend of yours.

 

[firehorse]

Thank you all so much...I think I'm finally starting to get it. A new begining...that's what I need!