59.5

[Tohpol]

Any consensus on 59.5? Although it does apply to a reading I did the question is not so relevant. I'd like to understand this line as I haven't had it before - hmm, maybe once. 59 came up a lot for me earlier this year too regarding "riding the wave" and not getting wiped out. Also connected to the ego and it's propensity for inflation.

There seems to be quite an array of ambiguous interpretations, or maybe I'm just not seeing it properly. I can understand 59 as a whole, more or less, but this line has me stumped somewhat.

Some interprets:

Wilhelm:

"In times of general dispersion and separation, a great idea provides a focal
point for the organization of recovery. Just as an illness reaches its crisis in a
dissolving sweat, so a great stimulating idea is a true salvation in times of
general deadlock. It gives the people a rallying point-a man in a ruling
position who can dispel misunderstandings."

LiSe:

"It's too late to turn back now. Letting everything go is never easy, but when life reaches a climax, all you can do is hold on and go along for the ride. You can be assured that every dispersion leads to a new gathering, eventually."

Legge:

"The fifth NINE, undivided, shows its subject amidst the dispersion issuing his great announcements as the perspiration (flows from his body). He scatters abroad (also) the accumulations in the royal granaries. There will be no error."

Karcher:

"This is correcting the situation. You are involved in a great project. Work hard to disperse the obstacles to achievement. Don't think about anything else now. This is not a mistake. In the end this will correct your entire situation. The centre is changing. Be part of it. Direction: There is something immature in the situation that needs to be nourished. Take things in. Be open and provide what is needed."

Hatcher:

"...After only a few generations the steady state of things cannot hold, an end time has arrived, the focal point collapses. [...] The timing is perfect for falling apart, for allowing it all to go."

Scattering the power of egotistical constraints allowing a new vision idea to sweep you to new ground...Well, I'm lost.

Thoughts? Dobro, Bruce, Trojan - anyone?

Topal

 

[cesca]

Any consensus on 59.5? Although it does apply to a reading I did the question is not so relevant. I'd like to understand this line as I haven't had it before - hmm, maybe once. 59 came up a lot for me earlier this year too regarding "riding the wave" and not getting wiped out. Also connected to the ego and it's propensity for inflation.

There seems to be quite an array of ambiguous interpretations, or maybe I'm just not seeing it properly. I can understand 59 as a whole, more or less, but this line has me stumped somewhat.

Topal

Hmmm...I've generally considered it to be an image of the strong King (yang line in a yang position, in the 5th place) making a strong effort (sweating! shouting!) to save the kingdom. In the midst of Dispersion, the king remains -- it reminds me of Kagamusha sitting on the battlefield. As long as he holds firm (to the middle way -- he's in the centre of the upper trigram), no blame.

Cesca

 

[lightofreason]

Line position 5 is controlled by hexagram 08 and its focus on a passive source of attraction, unconditional when compared to hexagram 20 that is more conditional, more particular.

59 covers the dispelling of illusions - with containment (water in lower) comes becoming influencial (wind in upper).

What is implied with a focus on line position 5 is the 08-ness of 59 is described by analogy to 04. IOW how does 59 express 08? This is done through analogy to the characteristics of 04 where in a context of dispelling illusions the 'ruler' emphasis is on socialisation, issues of wearing a mask to 'fit in' and so the masking is through actions of some ruler/court where their presence translates their mindset to be THE mindset that is put on as a mask and so dispells illusions - all is seen through THEIR eyes and in so doing satifies the (a) dispelling of illusion of 59 and (b) the influence of a passive leader/ruler - THEY do 'nothing' but be themselves, we then 'see' things through their eyes, their mask as such, and so illusions are dispelled (or surrendered for another set!)

The emphasis is on the UNCONDITIONAL nature of 08 and so general nature covering a source of attraction/admiration rather than the conditional nature of admiration/attraction/motivation we find in 20.

Chris.

 

[dobro p]

59.5 - dispersing and breaking it up openly, including your own position: no fault.

 

[bruce_g]

I see it something like: "Oh, Woe is Me! ....wait a minute.... I'm still here!?"

The king abiding in his temple is like the spirit abiding in me. It seems like I'm dying (in one way or another), and so I scatter my treasures, leaving them behind to my heirs. Then I realize, I'm still here! only in a more subtle form. Is it my loss, or have I gained freedom from my obligations and possessions? Either way, seen from this new lighter position, nothing is wrong.

 

[maremaria]

Hi Topal,

I had never got 59.5 but I had 59 no changing lines. For me it was about a crack in my defence shield and a call to slip through the crack, go inside and clean up.

Biased from my own experience of 59 I see 59.5 as the moment of one dealing with a new information or awareness of something hidden. A “cold sweat” moment. And LiSe’s sentence “ It’s too late to turn back now” I see it as from that moment one can’t anymore pretend he/she doesn’t know. The one has lost the “ignorance” benefit. The new knowledge is there . and

Maria

 

[Tohpol]

Hi Topal,

I had never got 59.5 but I had 59 no changing lines. For me it was about a crack in my defence shield and a call to slip through the crack, go inside and clean up.

Biased from my own experience of 59 I see 59.5 as the moment of one dealing with a new information or awareness of something hidden. A “cold sweat” moment. And LiSe’s sentence “ It’s too late to turn back now” I see it as from that moment one can’t anymore pretend he/she doesn’t know. The one has lost the “ignorance” benefit. The new knowledge is there . and
Maria

Firstly, thanks to all for the responses - it's a lot clearer now.

I think you're right Maria, thank you for you contribution. This gives me more to think on.

Topal

 

[martin]

I think that in line 5 the self (the king) discovers that dispersion is what he or she really wants or that dispersing is the best thing to do in this situation.
It becomes his or her decision instead of something that more or less just happens to him or her.
Consequently the self assumes full responsibility for the dispersion, makes it his or her 'cause', and takes the lead in the process.
This is a change of attitude.

 

[maremaria]

I think that in line 5 the self (the king) discovers that dispersion is what he or she really wants or that dispersing is the best thing to do in this situation.
It becomes his or her decision instead of something that more or less just happens to him or her.
Consequently the self assumes full responsibility for the dispersion, makes it his or her 'cause', and takes the lead in the process.
This is a change of attitude.[/QUOTE]

This is excactly what is hidden behind my vague intepretation. The crack happened a long time ago. Didn't want to accept it ! Trying to avoid it ! It didn't exist ! 59 was about choosing to go down there

 

[cesca]

Awesome! And all that sort of fits with the 'Taoist I Ching' line: "Dispersing the false and being able to complete the true."

Cesca

 

[anemos]

Sometimes the interpretation of a line doesn't resonates at all and others the same "story" fits like a glove.

In this instance, for a matter concerns me and its rather serious, I found Brad's story pretty accurate. Some things have been collapsing for a long time and nowadays its more salient than ever- a house of cards.

There are some "shoulds" that imo are unsound, and , on the other hand there is that wish to let the castle collapse. Let the castle fall while there are not guaranties for a "new home" can be scary yet, yi says, "without blame". Perhaps, because of the fear for the unknown, the uncertainty one has to face , make them to try keep the castle and read the line as such, to try to 'recover' it... yet , in the context of the specific situation I'm talking about, maybe that recovery comes through "destruction".

Observing the structure falling apart here, is not passivity neither desperation. Its an active response. There is a sense of agency. What looks as a disaster, could be an opportunity- unformed for the time being, yet , a new beginning.

anyway, there are some great ideas here of what this line is about, that helped me a lot and what I share hope it adds something

.... hope I won't have to change my current understanding, lol

 

[RindaR]

:bows: the egg is cracked.. Do we try to mend the shell or do we decide to make an omelet? I think this reading suggests it's not going to be worthwhile to try to put the shell back together. You lose the potential chick and gain a good breakfast, a resource that may be used toward caring for your hens.

 

[anemos]

Beautifully said, Rinda.
:bows:

I was moved by yi's response and by some friends' support and now by your words.

 

[Tohpol]

maybe that recovery comes through "destruction".

Yup. That line was pivotal for me back in 2007. I was in the midst of a steady descent into depression brought on by loss of pretty much everything - including my sense of self. It was a destructive period which was actually entirely restorative, redemptive and ultimately a process of total transformation. Yet, we have to surrender to this process of renewal (in hindsight) or circumstances become more entrenched and thus the greater the "breakage." Once we do, the cycle turns and new vistas open up reflecting back just how many mirages we held within ourselves, shimmering on that horizon and taken for reality.

So, in your context, this line indicates that there can definitely light emerging from the dark provided we leap into the unknown. "A new beginning" most certainly.

I can't tell you how many omelets I've made since.