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6 coin method.

cirka09

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I was looking over some threads on different methods of obtaining a hexagram and it got me thinking about trying various methods. Aside from it being mentioned in the "learning" section of Clarity, I haven't seen much information on people using the 6 coin method. Has anyone had successful experiences with this? I know the idea of forcing a reading to always having one, and only one, moving line seems limiting; but I think it's interesting that in doing so you end up with 384 possible combitations, which I guess is roughly the equivalent of a 13 month lunar year. I like synchronicity so it has me wondering. :)
 

cirka09

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Sometimes I wonder if the possibility of getting a hex with no moving lines was originally intended. I mean, if the book of changes is about changes and fluctuations, why should it be possible to arrive at an answer that doesn't change? I don't know enough about the i ching to really offer any comment on it. this is just my opinion, but when I think about the universe, or life, or what have you, I don't see anything unchanging. I see things in a constant state of flux. And that flux is the only thing that is constant. At the same time I can understand how some questions wouldn't need any more than an unchanging hex to answer.... Blasted brain.... My head hurts...
 
M

meng

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If one takes trigrams into consideration, even an unchanging hexagram is dynamic, even when both trigrams are the same.
 

hilary

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Yes - 'unchanging' is a bit of a misnomer for a hexagram with no changing lines. Single hexagrams are ways of moving and changing as well as states of being. (Think of receiving 49 unchanging - you wouldn't expect the situation to stay the same, would you?)
 

cirka09

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Yeah, I can see a hex with no moving lines as a way of changing. It's hard to put my thoughts into words on this. Let's say I did receive hex 49 unchanging as an answer. The image is of revoluton and that in order to undertake such a matter one must "proceed in the right way, so that he gladdens the people and, by enightening them, prevents excesses." Maybe I'm trying to over simplify things, but wouldn't being provided with a changing line help to show you at what point you're at within the overall state of revolution? (i.e by always being given a moving line you are shown the most important aspect of the situation you're asking about.)
Then again, by using a method that also has the possibility of giving more than one moving line, you could be presented with a more complex view of your situation that points to different levels of influence.
I've just been trying different methods, trying to decide on one that works for me. I read a yarrow method in Tao of the I Ching that always gives one, and only one, moving line. So I started looking into other methods as well; which lead me to the 6 coin method and now there are so many options I can't make up my mind. I tend to over think things way too much. So now, of course, I'm stuck.
 

my_key

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The unchanging level may be a good way just to focus on a broader picture working with upper and lower trigram meanings, the nuclear trigram, the sequence and all those sort of things that can get overlooked when jumping straight into the moving lines.
 

cirka09

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Speaking of the nuclear and sequence etc. I have asked this before but Id like a bit of clarification just to be sure. When looking at the nuclear, complementary, contrasting hexagrams and such, do the changing lines carrry over? And if so, do they carry over in the same location? For example, if you received 55.1 as an answer and wanted to consider the contrasting hex, would you look at line 1 or line 6 in the contrasting hex since it is being inverted?
 

hilary

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wouldn't being provided with a changing line help to show you at what point you're at within the overall state of revolution? (i.e by always being given a moving line you are shown the most important aspect of the situation you're asking about.)
Yes, that's exactly what it would do: show you where you are, or where you might be if you adopted the course of action/ position you're asking about, and so on. But there are all kinds of reasons why that might not apply - for instance, you might not have chosen your course of action, or you might not have any particular role or position. Or you might just not need that kind of detail; you might simply need to absorb the principle of the thing.

For instance... my reading for the year was 54.3.4 zhi 11. It had me puzzling and contemplating endlessly over 54, and how I could keep myself organised and on track and making progress while being like the marrying maiden. Eventually I thought I'd got things more or less worked out, so to see what I'd missed I asked 'What do I need to understand about being like the marrying maiden and yet still doing my best?' (or words to that effect). Answer: 11, unchanging. You can see why no moving line was called for there.
When looking at the nuclear, complementary, contrasting hexagrams and such, do the changing lines carrry over? And if so, do they carry over in the same location? For example, if you received 55.1 as an answer and wanted to consider the contrasting hex, would you look at line 1 or line 6 in the contrasting hex since it is being inverted?
If by 'contrasting hexagram' you mean 56 (just checking, people mean lots of different things by the same words) then yes, I would look at 56.6 as a possible 'direction' for 55.1 - the way the story might continue, as it were. If you draw hexagram 55, mark line 1 changing, and turn the piece of paper through 180 degrees, you'll find yourself looking at 56.6. They're the same line, in a way, just seen from a new perspective. It makes sense to me to read them together.

On the other hand, I've never looked at line texts in the nuclear hexagram (eg got 55.2 and looked at 28.1), or looked at 59.1 to see if it's the complement of 55.1. That doesn't stop you or anyone else from looking at this and discovering whether it's useful, of course. It's not as if there were a list somewhere of Patterns You Should Look At ;) .
 

ctoz

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Wang Bi's commentary on the significance of the lines in their places—2 and 4 being innately yin positions, 3 and 5 innately yang, with positions 1 and 6 having no innate tendency (by reason of two apparently contradictory statements about top lines, in 1.6 and 5.6, and no statements at all about the 'correctness' or otherwise of beginning lines)—and the consequent relationships between actual lines, yin and yang, taking into account their positions, and the degree of closeness to oneanother... are for me a good way of examining even the most enigmatic hexagram.

You're looking first at the structure of the hexagram, at its unadorned image (as distinct from the more specific imagery in "The Image" section in Wilhelm and others) before the associated text.

Wang Bi, "General Remarks on the Changes of Zhou" (circa 249, and :cool: for a 23-year-old) in

The Classic of Changes: A New Translation of the I Ching as Interpreted by Wang Bi
Richard John Lynn, 1994
pp27ff

cheers
 

my_key

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Speaking of the nuclear and sequence etc. I have asked this before but Id like a bit of clarification just to be sure. When looking at the nuclear, complementary, contrasting hexagrams and such, do the changing lines carrry over? And if so, do they carry over in the same location? For example, if you received 55.1 as an answer and wanted to consider the contrasting hex, would you look at line 1 or line 6 in the contrasting hex since it is being inverted?
For me, the changing lines don't figure when reviewing the reading at the trigram or hexagram level. It's like peeling the onion, start at the top level (hexagram) and squeeze what juice you can, then peel down to trigram level and finally look at what can be gleaned from line level analysis/interpretation.

Jumping in immediately at the deep end means it's difficult to keep your head above water.

Mike
 

fkegan

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There are many possible perspectives to use in interpreting your Yi Oracles and folks invent new ones for their own purposes.

In general when you ask the Yi a question you get your answer in terms of a hexagram (sometimes) with moving lines which would form a second hexagram when all the moving lines change to their opposite value. Therefore the initial hexagram is taken as the current answer or situation which is developing through the changing emphasis of the moving lines toward a possible final future result of the Resultant hexagram.

The nuclear hexagram is a separate analysis. The nuclear hexagram is formed by expanding the middle four lines of a hexagram into six lines. Therefore each hexagram is its nuclear hexagram within the Environment line pair (lines 1 & 6) which indicates how inner conditions have met their external situation to form this hexagram.

Overall, then the inner or psychological process of the nuclear hexagram meets the current situation to form the Oracle hexagram which has a changing emphasis through its moving lines tending to develop towards the Resultant hexagram.

Hexagram sequence involves its own complex set of differing perspectives and explanations. The Sequence section in Wilhelm is said to be more about traditional text to help memorize the hexagrams in order in preparation for Imperial Civil Service Exams than any serious discussion of the import of the Sequence.

Frank
 

cirka09

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Wow! So much information! I'm enjoying this. It's alot of food for thought. I forgot to ask about the significance of the Fan Yao in my last post. I remember reading another post somewhere on it that said it is something like the changing lines opposite and they basically form a pair? How does that play into interpreting readings?
 

hilary

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Just so long as you're not getting indigestion and missing the nourishment of the original - can happen, I know, even though I thoroughly enjoy going into these things in depth.

There isn't a single answer to your fan yao question, either. I find they tend to reflect how a line feels or the awareness behind it. Just yesterday I was describing a line to a new client, and what came up for him in response was basically the fan yao (what he said could pretty much have been a commentary on it). I think it gets misleading if you try to take the fan yao as a direct answer to your question.
 

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