61.4

[moss elk]

What is the signifigance of the Moon in 61.4?
Anything like in Western: ie female?
I noticed that Tuck makes a reference to sex (the mating pair)
in his commentary.

Thank you.

 

[xuesongyu]

Hello friend:

Each hexagram has a main idea, and the texts of a hexagram have a close relation to the main idea. So before explaining a hexagram, you should know the main idea first.

For example, Hex 61 describes the honesty and sincerity. In my opinion, Hex 61.4 means that although you treat people with all sincerity, some people still run away from you or even fight against you. I Ching suggests that there is no need to worry (because you still have so many friends and partners).

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The Wisdom of I Ching: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1500859788
I Ching Codes Predicting the Future: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRPT8G0

 

[sooo]

Hey Moss Elk,

To me, 61.4 describes primarily an emotion to break away from the pack, the common, the commune. The soul breaks free and runs to the moon as a friend or lover, a powerful magnetism that only ones animal instincts can feel and recognize, though not necessarily understand. That kind of understanding serves no purpose now. Ones connection with the cosmos is compelling enough. One treads upon the moon and stars as ones own backyard.

 

[1eleven]

I believe it's related to the "highest position in the court," according to Huang

 

[1eleven]

"We maintain confidence even when events are discouraging because we understand yin and yang. We know the waxing moon must wane. We know not to take the loss even off of a horse to heart. This is how we remain without fault." - The Living I Ching

 

[bradford]

Sun and moon are in opposition. Things come to a head.
The police stations and emergency rooms get extra busy.
There is lots of howling in the nervous hospital.
Tensions are at a high point. One horse is first to be horse
and haters gotta hate.

 

[anemos]

What is the signifigance of the Moon in 61.4?

is my special line and got it many times. I have observed that the pattern is always the same. The moon/moons where "objects" of desire and deep down i knew I wanted and had to pursue them. Its no fault but the difficulty was to leave the corral. This is to what "no blame" refers to, imo.

61 with all those animals, feels very primitive, not in a negative way but very instinctual, ours old brain our unconscious and the moon in every occasion, to me , was an inner necessity, something can't flourish into the corral, it has to enter the jungle , meet the tiger The tethers is the problem, ie what keeps you back.

the moon is you, in some ways, its your light gives light to her, its your reflection . Its like you see her and say, "this is me".... that "Me" you follow.

 

[moss elk]

The day that I got that reading:

I spent the evening at a tavern with a woman friend.
(Who i had originally thought to be a romantic interest)
Over the course of the night after numerous drinks, I came to realize that
What i had originally thought of as her interest in me was in fact an interest in men in general.
She flirted very heavily with every man within proximity.

That night i slept on the couch and was startled awake by an intense dream and what felt to be a blue bolt of realization that landed my body hard on the wooden floor. Bam!
I knew that she wasn't for me, all doubts were gone.
Internally i broke away from her.

Thank you everyone for your responses.

 

[sooo]

Maybe she was your anima or your shadow, who is quite opposite of your conscious man, but manifesting outwardly so you could see her. That is not an uncommon way of experiencing 61.4, which is an upper yin line.

In Jungian psychology, the shadow or "shadow aspect" may refer to (1) an unconscious aspect of the personality which the conscious ego does not identify in itself. Because one tends to reject or remain ignorant of the least desirable aspects of one's personality, the shadow is largely negative, or (2) the entirety of the unconscious, i.e., everything of which a person is not fully conscious. There are, however, positive aspects which may also remain hidden in one's shadow (especially in people with low self-esteem).[1] Contrary to a Freudian definition of shadow, therefore, the Jungian shadow can include everything outside the light of consciousness, and may be positive or negative. "Everyone carries a shadow," Jung wrote, "and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."[2] It may be (in part) one's link to more primitive animal instincts,[3] which are superseded during early childhood by the conscious mind.

 

[moss elk]

Maybe she was your anima or your shadow, who is quite opposite of your conscious man, but manifesting outwardly so you could see her. That is not an uncommon way of experiencing 61.4, which is an upper yin line.

In a poetic sense, sure.
As a complimentary shadow, maybe.
As a near perfect-storm trigger to an old wound, likely.

 

[sooo]

Iodine stings when applied to an open wound, but it also can cure or prevent infection. Recognizing ones own shadow has the same potential, which is why Jung used the idea in his therapy.

It's most important to understand that this shadow represents what we are completely unaware of in ourselves, and that this often takes a repulsive or frightful form.

Title: The Nightmare
Artist: Henry Fuseli

Jung also believed that "in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity."; so that for some, it may be, 'the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow...represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar.' Memories, Dreams and Reflections; Jung

Also, the Shadow is always represented by a figure or figures of the opposite sex.

Maybe you just need to let your hair down, break out of your linear corral, and run wild under the moonlight.

There's a horse here named Chakra, a large quarter horse, and the alpha of the pack. Yet, though incredibly strong, he's warmly social and even cuddly, more so than the mares. But one night he was taken out on a ride with the others, tethered but not saddled nor ridden. Once out into the open and into a very wide section of safe sandy desert wash, he was released. Once he realized his untethered freedom, he went wild: jumping, bucking, kicking, snorting, whinnying; truly reveling in his unencumbered condition, until he plum wore himself out, whereupon he welcomed the tether and was gently led back to his familiar home. Sometimes that's what our inner nature in truth desires, and only our domesticated manners stand in our own way. Those who turn up their noses at such revelry deny themselves the freedom to let their horse out of the barn.

 

[moss elk]

Iodine stings when applied to an open wound, but it also can cure or prevent infection. Recognizing ones own shadow has the same potential, which is why Jung used the idea in his therapy.

It's most important to understand that this shadow represents what we are completely unaware of in ourselves, and that this often takes a repulsive or frightful form.

Title: The Nightmare
Artist: Henry Fuseli

Jung also believed that "in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity."; so that for some, it may be, 'the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow...represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar.' Memories, Dreams and Reflections; Jung

Also, the Shadow is always represented by a figure or figures of the opposite sex.

Maybe you just need to let your hair down, break out of your linear corral, and run wild under the moonlight.

There's a horse here named Chakra, a large quarter horse, and the alpha of the pack. Yet, though incredibly strong, he's warmly social and even cuddly, more so than the mares. But one night he was taken out on a ride with the others, tethered but not saddled nor ridden. Once out into the open and into a very wide section of safe sandy desert wash, he was released. Once he realized his untethered freedom, he went wild: jumping, bucking, kicking, snorting, whinnying; truly reveling in his unencumbered condition, until he plum wore himself out, whereupon he welcomed the tether and was gently led back to his familiar home. Sometimes that's what our inner nature in truth desires, and only our domesticated manners stand in our own way. Those who turn up their noses at such revelry deny themselves the freedom to let their horse out of the barn.

I know that your comments are coming from a place of friendship, and i thank you for that.

And I can assure you that i've got a pretty good view of the inside of these moccosins compared to most.
That being said, i can assure you that this is not a situation for me to Pan-out, pardon the wordplay.
Yes, iodine stings in a wound but so does a second spear thrust.
I've done some 'shadow work' and could paint you a detailed portrait of mine.
It appeared to me before the elk did.
What came to me in the recent dream was a picture of the birth of my shadow.
I knew of its qualities before, but not of its inception.
And i know that my work is to unite the shadow with the elk,
So that it is no longer a shunned outcast, because in fact it is honorable and awesome.

Regards. :bows:

 

[sooo]

Someone, in a lighthearted manner, said to me recently, "I'm a Capricorn, and Capricorns don't believe in Astrology."

The paradox is similar to someone saying, I'm conscious of my Shadow. When someone becomes conscious of their Shadow, it is no longer their Shadow. But to be sure, it will take on other forms, and will remain unconscious. And it's most often what we notice and are repulsed by in others.

Being out with a woman who loves men, and not just me... that's a very interesting dynamic. Many men would be deeply hurt and offended by that, and I can recall a time, though very long ago, when I would have been. But over time, much time, it's become nonthreatening. In fact, I can recall the moment when that dynamic shifted. It was confusing, and I began acting it out in subconscious ways. Many years later, when it had fully matured, only then could I understand it, and even revel in it. And only then did my Shadow transform, as she had lost her power over me in her previous form. But I am not naive enough to think she shall not find another weakness in my character to taunt me with; one I shall not, can not be conscious of.

 

[moss elk]

I'm about ready to move on from this thread.

I would like to point out what seems to be a difference in our definitions of a Shadow.
correct me if i am wrong but, it seems to me as if you are saying it is an external changeling entity over which one is helpless against, so why bother, let it do as it will.

I liken shadow more to an aspect of oneself, a dark side, that is initially hidden, but can come to be known and integrated, even mastered. Similar to a complex or unconscious urge.

Perhaps we use the same term but refer to different things, different concepts.

tomato, tornado

 

[sooo]

Your definition is Freudian. My definition is Jungian. Yes, same name, different meaning, absolutely. Easily research-able information.

I don't mean to press the matter, but in Jungian terms, understanding or knowing ones Shadow consciously is an oxymoron. It's not something which goes away, it only changes its form. You can come to know and benefit from a manifestation, you may even master it, but so long as there is something unknown, it will return in that unknown form.

it seems to me as if you are saying it is an external changeling entity over which one is helpless against, so why bother, let it do as it will.

Well, the only one we have control of is ourselves. When there's an aspect which we have no control over, our Shadow is a good place to look for resolution. If we do discover it, in dreams or in waking life, and manage to master it or at least gain some control of it, that indeed is progress, but it isn't the end of our Shadow, because there are always aspects of ourselves that are unknown to our conscious mind. But so long as we reaffirm the pain it inflicts upon us from the outside, the less likely we are to recognize its current manifestation within ourselves. We are not helpless victims unless we accept defeat. Otherwise there will always be a bad guy (or girl) to the story of our lives, always a villain. Not that there aren't bad people out there, but we don't need to be willing and passive victims. The best place to defeat them is within ourselves. Will refer to a Wilhelm quote here...

As long as a man's inner nature remains stronger and richer than anything offered by external fortune, as long as he remains inwardly superior to fate, fortune will not desert him. - Wilhelm 11.3 - changes to 19, overseeing or self-control

I'll bet over 80% of the threads in Shared Readings are examples of "somebody's done somebody wrong songs." And they are the most difficult readings to assist someone with, not because Yi's answers aren't clear but because the victims refuse to see that their answers almost always lie within themselves, not "an external changeling entity over which one is helpless against."

Hey, my friend, I've been hurt by my share of bad guys, but if I repeatedly relive and revisit those bad guys and the hurt they've inflicted on me, if I reaffirm my sorrow over it, my Shadow will dominate my life and I'll be miserable. That's a choice we all make, I believe.