7.1.3 11 (The Army > Peace)

[rudolphin]

Some directed actions were undertaken towards an individual and we cannot know the result. What happened to this person as a direct result of these actions?

7.1.3 11

7.1 Knowing neither purpose nor direction, the soldiers march blindly onward.
7.3 A wagonload of corpses this way comes.

What do you guys think? I cannot find good information, yet, for 7.3

 

[Hans_K]

Hi Rudolphin,

What do you guys think? I cannot find good information, yet, for 7.3

That information lies primarily within you, you are the one consulting the Yi and the Yi gives an answer to you in images that you should understand. So what does this text mean to you in this situation.

Some directed actions were undertaken towards an individual and we cannot know the result. What happened to this person as a direct result of these actions?

Sounds pretty dark, could easily mean that someone has been beaten up and you now want to know through the Yi how that person is doing and if the message got through. Perhaps it would be useful to give a bit more information instead of this cryptic description . Also makes it a lot easier to help you with interpretation.

 

[rudolphin]

Hi Rudolphin,

That information lies primarily within you, you are the one consulting the Yi and the Yi gives an answer to you in images that you should understand. So what does this text mean to you in this situation.

Sounds pretty dark, could easily mean that someone has been beaten up and you now you want to know through the Yi how that person is doing and if the message got through. Perhaps it would be useful to give a bit more information instead of this cryptic description . Also makes it a lot easier to help you with interpretation.

Thanks for replying.

It was a long time ago. The motive was sinister. I'm wondering if someone survived a curse placed upon them.

Dabbling in magic is a light way to put this. This was a coven that had a strict protocol of adherence and non-compliance was not an option.

Years ago the Master wants a person cursed to death and we comply.

No one expected the person in question to live long.

I am looking for alternative explanations than that Peace really means final rest.

I was inexperienced and stupid and got my head in too deep. Now I try living a moral life, as much as I can.

 

[Hans_K]

The Multitude, as Alfred Huang calls H7, is, I think, a better name for this hexagram than the Army. In ancient China, there was no army as we know it today. Whenever it was needed, an army was assembled from the population led by a warlord. So indirectly, H7 is also about structure and leadership.

Years ago the Master wants a person cursed to death and we comply.
....
This was a coven that had a strict protocol of adherence and non-compliance was not an option.

H7 thus gives a picture of the situation you describe. A "master" leading a group of people and giving a (sinister) order and people 'following' the commands.

The text of the 1st line says:

The army must go forth disciplined by regulations.
If discipline is not good, misfortune.

If you are going to embark on something then there must be a clear and definite plan, which must be executed in a disciplined manner according to clear rules. That is where the whole strategy stands or falls.

The text of the 3rd line says:

There is uncertainty.
The army carries corpses in the wagon.
Misfortune.

Here it becomes clear that the strategy of line 1 was either flawed or not executed with discipline, because instead of celebrating a victory, corpses are transported here.

The Judgement text of H7 says that an army needs a strong leader, strong in the sense of being a good strategist and strong in a sense that the troops are willing to listen and take orders. From the texts of lines 1 and 3, it can be concluded that in this case there was no strong leader and the whole plan failed.
The Judgement text of H11 talks about the petty departing and the great arriving.

H7<>H11
This can also be seen as Peace through the Multitude, or in other words, the multitude did not really want to carry out the given instructions (perhaps superficially in actions, but not with intention).

This would be my interpretation. As always, take what resonates and leave the rest .

 

[rudolphin]

The Multitude, as Alfred Huang calls H7, is, I think, a better name for this hexagram than the Army. In ancient China, there was no army as we know it today. Whenever it was needed, an army was assembled from the population led by a warlord. So indirectly, H7 is also about structure and leadership.

H7 thus gives a picture of the situation you describe. A "master" leading a group of people and giving a (sinister) order and people 'following' the commands.

The text of the 1st line says:

If you are going to embark on something then there must be a clear and definite plan, which must be executed in a disciplined manner according to clear rules. That is where the whole strategy stands or falls.

The text of the 3rd line says:

Here it becomes clear that the strategy of line 1 was either flawed or not executed with discipline, because instead of celebrating a victory, corpses are transported here.

The Judgement text of H7 says that an army needs a strong leader, strong in the sense of being a good strategist and strong in a sense that the troops are willing to listen and take orders. From the texts of lines 1 and 3, it can be concluded that in this case there was no strong leader and the whole plan failed.
The Judgement text of H11 talks about the petty departing and the great arriving.

H7<>H11
This can also be seen as Peace through the Multitude, or in other words, the multitude did not really want to carry out the given instructions (perhaps superficially in actions, but not with intention).

This would be my interpretation. As always, take what resonates and leave the rest .

Oh so 11 does not imply that the person died? That is, from a karmic perspective, very good!

So the I Ching rather says how the execution failed than what what the result for the person affected by the curse was eventually? How so? The question was structured to answer just what the effect was for the person, not give guidance on how it failed...

Seems like an interesting interpretation to be sure! Glad it didn't work!

I was for a long time certain line 3 of The Multitude meant the person did die. Failure is good sometimes.

 

[Hans_K]

So the I Ching rather says how the execution failed than what what the result for the person affected by the curse was eventually? How so? The question was structured to answer just what the effect was for the person, not give guidance on how it failed...

An oracle works with images that have to be interpreted according to the question, in doing so you have to read between the lines, so to speak. An oracle, of course, never gives a direct answer in the sense of "this person is doing fine".
As I see it, the fact that the answer indicates that the assignment failed combined with H11 gives a clear answer to the question of what the effect was on the person in question.

I was for a long time certain line 3 of The Multitude meant the person did die. Failure is good sometimes.

These kinds of texts, I believe, must always be seen in the context of the Judgement and Image text.

 

[rudolphin]

Hi Rudolphin,

That information lies primarily within you, you are the one consulting the Yi and the Yi gives an answer to you in images that you should understand. So what does this text mean to you in this situation.

If we go by this intuitive mode of interpretation then only the caster is the person who can accurately interpret the divination.

However then every newcomer to the system would never make faulty interpretations and these shared readings would not be up to interpretation from other forum members.

Not sure how that vould work out.

 

[Hans_K]

However then every newcomer to the system would never make faulty interpretations and these shared readings would not be up to interpretation from other forum members.

I think the issue is more about beginners not knowing how to deal with an answer from the Yi rather than making misinterpretations. No matter which oracle you use, it is always about translating images to the question and the situation in which the question is asked.
The way I see it, on this forum I can only make a suggestion, give my interpretation in the hope that the person will work on that themselves, but I certainly cannot give THE ANSWER on a forum. When I work with clients, I always ask what the images of the answer mean to them.
As an example, if you have a bad relationship with your father, then trigram Heaven, which represents the father, will mean something very different than if you have an excellent relationship.

 

[rudolphin]

I think the issue is more about beginners not knowing how to deal with an answer from the Yi rather than making misinterpretations. No matter which oracle you use, it is always about translating images to the question and the situation in which the question is asked.
The way I see it, on this forum I can only make a suggestion, give my interpretation in the hope that the person will work on that themselves, but I certainly cannot give THE ANSWER on a forum. When I work with clients, I always ask what the images of the answer mean to them.
As an example, if you have a bad relationship with your father, then trigram Heaven, which represents the father, will mean something very different than if you have an excellent relationship.

I've found it's critical to pose questions in the correct manner. My experience, for what it's worth, indicates that you are asking the universe, or whatever powers oversee these systems, in a literally contractual manner, and you only get the answers to the question, exactly as posed. The question is everything, after the method you used to generate the lines.

Personally, I would never again use software random number generation to make a casting. I would go for the 3-coin method, or Yarrow.

Yarrow might be more true to the Yin-Yang philosophy they kept at the time, but the 3-coin method should also work, however, statistically, Yarrow does yield much different transfornmed hexagrams.

Asking the I Ching "is he good for me?" is not going to give you an explanation from the oracle that you can apply to your life, from my experience. Maybe others have different opinions on this, but this is mine.

Huang is a new to me, I will look into his work.

What I like to do is pose obvious question-answers and learn how the Oracle works, from those answers. It's a bit more intuitive than what most readers may be used to.