8.3 - non-people as animals

[Trojina]

'

For those who have asked: my cat is an 18-y-o indoor cat who lost her lifetime companion/littermate a few months ago and who now several times a day runs off to a particular spot in the house and gives a series of loud, sharp little cries that sound like anguish or rage to me, although of course I don't speak cat. Sometimes the reason is clear (water bowl not freshened, junior cat in household eating her food, laptop on my lap instead of her), sometimes I have no idea. I just wish I understood how to make her less unhappy. If she is unhappy.

It may sound odd but I've known (at least it was my understanding) the 'wrong people' of 8.3 refer to spirits, ghosts, call them what you will. Cats are quite sensitive to these.

Another possibility ...for a long time I'd wondered why my cat, now deceased, would run warily around a certain spot in a doorway though there was nothing there, till i remembered I had once accidentally dropped a bowl of cereal on his head there. Of course he wouldn't have known I'd dropped the bowl so perhaps his idea was there was something about this spot where something heavy would always land on his head if he stood there. Actually strangely I managed to cure him of this behaviour by cuddling him in the spot and telling him what happened well it seemed to work...perhaps the pleasant association of being cuddled overrode the unpleasant memory trace. Conditioning and de-conditioning perhaps

 

[Sparhawk]

I believe that there is not bad auspice at all in 8.3, It is an open ended line. Cats can truly be called BRIGANDS or BAD PEOPLE.

suppose that 8.3 said:

JOIN THE BRIGANDS. [NO COMMENTS].
Join the BAD PEOPLE, without comments.​

... say you know the consequences and the benefits of such an action, there are promises and there are risks, you choose.

Hmmm, I suppose the line speaks to the inner, most deeply seated nature of an individual... Perhaps it is OK for some to join in with the brigands, specially in the context of the time when it was written.

 

[charly]

It may sound odd but I've known (at least it was my understanding) the 'wrong people' of 8.3 refer to spirits, ghosts, call them what you will. Cats are quite sensitive to these ... Conditioning and de-conditioning perhaps

Trojan:

Ideed. And cats were subjected to demonization / divinization in different cultures. Maybe fei ren means people hard to be conditioned, free people, like cats.

Yours,

Charly

 

[pakua]

At bottom, your position is Christian. God made us all spirits in his image, equal and endowed with free will.

I wouldn't limit it to Christianity... I remember Dalai Lama speaking about infants not being able to know "evil", so his conclusion (and I suppose that would also be the official Buddhist view?) is that it's due to conditioning.

 

[charly]

Hmmm, I suppose the line speaks to the inner, most deeply seated nature of an individual... Perhaps it is OK for some to join in with the brigands, specially in the context of the time when it was written.

Luis:
Innerly all we are brigands, but, of course, I'm thinking that H.8 speaks about the Zhou revolt agaist Yin evil rulers.


Some keys:

• 筮 shi4: stalk divination [Zhou divination]
• 不寧方 bu4 ning2 fang1: unpeaceful strangers [allies from outside the frontiers]
• 後夫凶 hou4 fu1xiong1: later unfortunate Masters [Yin defeated rulers]
• 孚比 fu2 bi3: joined captives [allied oppressed people]
• 盈缶 ying2 fou3: overflown pot [injustice is yet excessive]
• 自內 zi4 nei4: from inside [allied vassals revolted]
• 匪人 fei3 ren2: brigands [the allies, the bad boys for the actual rulers]
• 外比 wai4 bi3: outside allies [the quoted fang strangers]
• 顯比 xisn3 bi3: famous joint [the evil Yin ruler and his favourite]
• 王用三驅 wang2 yong4 san1 qu1: King trying to escape trice [did him?] (1)
• 失前禽 shi1 qian2 qin2: the lost former fowl [the main royal concubine] (2)
• 邑人不誡 yi4 ren2 bu4 jie4: town people without command [people from the Yin capital, courtiers]

The last line is maybe a reflexion:

比之无首。凶。
bi3 zhi1 wu2 shou3 → xiong1


JOINING WITH HEADLESS [allies without a centralized command] SHOULD HAVE BEEN UNFORTUNATE .

The reason why H.8 reminds me the propaganda JOIN THE ARMY, and, of course, it mates with H.7, THE ARMY.


Un abrazo,

Charly


______________________
(1) I don't see the royal hunting anywhere. Do you?
(2) fowl, also a bird as part of the phrase birds and beasts, the bird and the beast, the famous joint.

 

[ginnie]

Closeness

Your 8.3 cat is ill-tempered and may injure you. I think that's the point there.

It's really fascinating, getting 8.3 for your cat. Usually it's an anti-social person, one who refuses to join in and who is therefore no help in trouble, who may actually cause more trouble when already there is trouble. Because hex 8 has to do with being together for mutual assistance.

But, because of your kind qualities, you may have a positive influence on your ill-tempered cat. That's the meaning of 8.4.

I think you'll have to take a wait-and-see attitude toward your grieving cat. Sometimes the ill-tempered can be reformed, if you hit on the right approach. Your bringing in your cat has really expanded my understanding of 8.3. Thank you so much! :bows::bows::bows:

 

[charly]

... ... It's really fascinating, getting 8.3 for your cat. Usually it's an anti-social person, one who refuses to join in and who is therefore no help in trouble, who may actually cause more trouble when already there is trouble. Because hex 8 has to do with being together for mutual assistance...

Barbra:

I like it. I wonder: are you speaking of us? All we are sometimes like cats.
And cats are considered brigands, say FEI REN, most of the time.

Maybe all this is but a BIG JOKE, I believe that the use FEI in the sense of bandits / gangs is modern, like the phrase «communist gang».

Almost all the times that FEI appears in the ODES or in the YI Legge translates it as NO / NOT / NEITHER, and he did know chinese. Does the same pass with Wilhelm / Baynes?

Hilary has reason, although it could sound bizarre, NON-PERSON does better sense. Persons that have lost the possibility of being recognized as subjects of rights no less than duties. PEOPLE that under the pressure of FORCE had became mere THINGS.

Better explained by Simone Weil in «THE ILIAD OR THE POEM OF FORCE» (1)

Yours,

Charly

________________________________________
(1) a rough translation of the begining:

The Iliad, or the poem of the force

The true hero, the true subject, the center of the Iliad is the force.

The force handled by the men, the force that puts under the men, the force before which the meat of the men is irritated. The human soul incessantly appears modified by its relations with the force, dragged, blinded by the force that she believes to have, folded by the pressure of the force that suffers. Those that dreamed that the force, thanks to the progress, belonged already to the past, could see in this poem a document; those that know to discern the force, today like before, in the center of all human history, find in it the most beautiful, purest of the mirrors.

The force is what does of whoever is put under him a thing.

When it is exerted it makes of the man a thing in the most literal sense, because it makes of him a corpse. There is somebody speeching and, a moment later, is nobody. It is a picture that the Iliad does not get tired to present and display.

… the horses making resonate the empty cars by the ways of the war, in duel of its conductors without reproach. They lay on the Earth, of the vultures more loved than of their wives.​

The hero is a thing dragged after a car in the dust:

… Around, the black hairs were scattered, and the whole head in the dust lays...​

To the bitterness of to such picture we savored pure, without no comforting fiction of immortality, no insipid aureole of glory, or mother country.

His soul outside its members flew, going towards Hades, crying his destiny, leaving his virility and his youth.
​

More pathetic still, by the painful thing of the resistance, is the sudden evocation, quickly erased, of another world, the distant, precarious and stirring world of Peace, the family, that world where each man is for who surround him what accounts the more.

(to be continued)
Simone Weil´s spanish version of The Greek Source.
From: http://hjg.com.ar/txt/sweil/sw_iliada.html

 

[hilary]

Mm - Legge's translation of 12.0 is really startling, especially after all the 'evil men' found elsewhere.
"In P'i there is the want of good understanding between the (different classes of) men"

8.3 - not so intriguing - "Seeking for union with such as ought not to be associated with."

Cats... aren't people. Not the two-legged kind depicted by ren, anyway.

Our neighbour is a farmer. He found a cat and kittens abandoned on the outskirts of his farm, and adopted them. (Just the kind of thing he would do... this is a farmer who's careful which straw bales to move so as not to disturb the family of wild rabbits living behind them, and who's been seen on our lawn picking fresh grass by the handful to feed to a sick cow.) Some became housecats, some were happier outdoors most of the time. But when he was going away for a rare holiday, they all had to be moved into the barn with ample supplies of food and water, and safely away from foxes etc.

One of the outdoor cats - normally perfectly tame - objected. It bit into his hand, gouged at him with its hind legs. Of course he put it down, quick. It wouldn't let go, bit through his hand, and had a good go at shredding his legs.

Obviously, no-one held this against the cat - why would they? it's a cat - and it was cared for lovingly until its death from old age many years later.

 

[ginnie]

Cats

I was talking about Knot's cat. A cat cannot be a mensch.

About the subject of human outcasts, that is complicated. Sometimes the person is someone you know. You may not be talking in the abstract. You may be talking about someone you know for a long time. In line with what Charly said above, you may have been a witness to how the pressure of force made them into a thing. Personally, I regard that as being a temporary condition in that individual, even if it is not.

 

[hilary]

In my experience, it can be a strictly relative, relational thing. For you, now, this person is fei ren. Their effect on you is only negative. That doesn't necessarily say anything about their character in an absolute sense.

 

[meng]

Well, if you're not hanging with anyone, and receive 8.3, don't automatically blame the cat. Kidding, but also serious, in that the ones you are hanging with in your head may be the wrong people.

8.4 reminds me of six paw meditation. That's when Mr. Mojo and I walk as a single animal, six paws walking.

 

[ginnie]

Depressed

If the cat lost its mate, it's probably depressed.

We don't throw pets or people out of the house because we got a "bad" line. Maybe, after some time has passed, the cat's mood will pick up, especially if you don't let your morose cat get you down.