9.5 supernatural

[kirilov]

Hi there,

This is my first post although i have been learning a lot from this forum.
I am not at all a religious person but i asked a somewhat spiritual question to the i ching.
It concerns a dream i had about my grandfather in the first nights i arrived in Africa.
I woke up crying in a sleeping tent in the Mauritanian desert after dreaming that i was at my grandfathers funeral (again) and he was there alive and happy and he came back to say goodbye to me, or at least thats what he saidl. Since that, before this dream, i had dreamt several times about him still sick and as a 'ghost' in our house ( only i could see him ), and that after this i never dreamt about him again, this story fascinates me a lot. He was an African man that moved to another country because of the war and never went back to his home country. He died when i was 17 and i was the first one to go back.

I asked the i ching:

Is my grandfather alive and did he came that day to help me?

I got 9.5 >26

It's a rather surprising answer, i would love some insight from anyone,

Thanks!
Kirilov

 

[Trojina]

Is my grandfather alive and did he came that day to help me?

I got 9.5 >26

How lovely, Hilary's translation from WikiWing says

'With truth and confidence, hence bound together.
Rich in your neighbour.'

Yes he came to you that day to help you because your bond is true and you are bound together in spirit.

I have some lovely experiences of this line that centre around experiencing great generosity from others. So yes I think his visit was a gift to you. He came to settle your mind and reassure you all was well. He's happy, not sick any more or a ghost, and you have not truly lost one another. He came so your mind would not be so troubled about his death I think.

 

[ginnie]

One translation that includes the spiritual meanings of the hexagrams is Stephen Karcher's Total I Ching. Another is Joseph Murphy's Secrets of the I Ching. I would say that your grandfather is alive in the spirit world and spoke to you reassuringly through your dream. The line also seems to be saying that prosperity will be yours and that your associates will also prosper. Sometimes the spirits do communicate with us, you know! When I was younger I did not know this and I totally missed some very important guidance that my grandmother was trying to give me in dreams. Don't make the same mistake!

 

[kirilov]

Hi there!

Thanks you a lot for the answers! they surprised me even more..!

I believe it was a crazy question to ask and i think it is an even crazier answer ,because , yes, he seems to clearly say, 'yes, he did came to share'. But am i the one who is approaching the king??

Here's the way i see it: This story happen 4 years ago, when i was 26 and i am not wealthy at all, or never was!
I thought that somehow i was making peace with my roots (somehow) and this was the way in my head to make that happen, when i first put my foot in that continent.
That's why i thought i had that dream.

The dreams before were very real and he was really looking as a ghost standing up next to the dinning table as i was the only one who noticed him. in these dreams he was still sick like before he died.
He died with alzeihmer and by the end he was someone else
TO be clear i do not at all believe in such things as ghosts!!!!!

I think the i ching will not tell me if a dream is real or 'alive' : that's actually a stupid question, so yes 'i did had that dream and it did helped me.' He came to me... somehow through my dreams.

But again the hex is telling me a clear yes, and even the idea of the big supporting the small, the great potential (the accumulation of virtues) unlimited, powerful, communicating with the small, limited potential.

why wasn't it sarcastic? why didn't it called me an ignorant?
i just can't believe he could be telling me ghosts exist!

Thsnks for the help!

 

[Trojina]

why wasn't it sarcastic? why didn't it called me an ignorant?
i just can't believe he could be telling me ghosts exist

Well if you think the I Ching exists why wouldn't ghosts exists and why wouldn't your grandfather's spirit exist I tend to think of a ghost as different to a visiting spirit of a loved one. A ghost is often a rather stuck unhappy thing, an energy which cannot move on, which is how you were thinking of your grandfather. He came by to say he wasn't like that, he's fine and you don't need to be sad about him anymore (IMO). If you don't think that is possible you could tell yourself part of your mind has settled this for you but I think the answer does indicate it was him because it speaks of a generous act, a connection. But of course it is up to you how you wish to think of it.

 

[kirilov]

Thank you i really appreciate the answer..

"Well if you think the I Ching exists why wouldn't ghosts exists and why wouldn't your grandfather's spirit exist "
True, i like the i ching because of the relation we have with it, other things might be more related to actual beliefs..
I don't wish to discuss the existence of things, rather it was a deep moment of connection with something that changed me. it was a very intense whole morning. because it was so important i ask this question, and it is a beautiful answer....

So i asked - is he trying to communicate with me?

I got 18.3.5

I am still trying to figure out what it means...

thank you ....!

 

[Trojina]

He's not trying to communicate with you he did communicate with you. You know that so I don't see why you'd ask again. If you don't believe he can communicate with you that's your belief....and that's fine. The way you describe it I think he only came to reassure you, he was happy. This would take him a certain amount of energy and love and would have been done through compassion. It doesn't mean he is constantly trying to communicate with you.

Also how can the answer even be discussed without personal beliefs coming into it. It seems quite natural to me that he should come to you. It isn't unusual. Love doesn't stop when someone dies.

Also you know now you can communicate with him so rather than ask the I Ching you can ask him directly. I think the fact he showed you he was well and happy means there is nothing troublesome here and the answer showed that too, nothing to worry about.

 

[kirilov]

Thanks Trojina,

I asked again for the present moment,

 

[kirilov]

ok ii asked what you suggested and i got
10

Some clarification
11.2.4
Than you again

These things are not so usual to me...

 

[Trojina]

I'm afraid I don't really understand your follow up questions. How do you see the answers ?

 

[altair139]

So everything you mentioned was only in your dream? including him as a ghost?
your question is a double question thus not a good one cuz the Yi could be answering either one. Anyway line 5 of hex 9 is about trust issue. Here you don't seem to believe "ghost exists" but the line seems to be encouraging that it does. Hex 9 I think is targeting your belief system, which is limited and not opened enough. After line 5 is activated it will become 26 whereas your belief system has expanded a bit more.

Ghost is a metaphysical thing, I don't refer dead spirits as ghosts because it has negative connotation. Human consciousness can't be seen, and we interact through a device called human body, thus by right you can't see ghosts aka spirits in real life, as it doesn't has any form thus our retina can't catch it as all the photons will just go through them. But it might be possible in a dream since dreaming is not fully understood yet.

 

[Trojina]

Yes, I don't know if you are still around kirilov but a ghost is quite another thing from a visit from a relative who passes to tell you he's okay.

I have done some mediumship so will explain my understanding if it might help, but of course it's up to you what you think.

It's like this; when someone dies only their body dies, their life energy, their mind, some might say their soul moves on to another realm of existence. But imagine if one day you were sent far far away and your relatives had no way of knowing what happened to you ? What if you can see them, from your new vantage point, distressed and crying that you've gone and they don't know where ? Naturally you would want to let them know 'hey I'm okay'. This is what I think your grandfather's motive was as 9.5 shows. This does not mean he is a 'ghost'. His energy is alive, it cannot die, but it's on another plane of existence from this one. He has his own business on that other plane as you have yours here so it is unlikely he is going to be coming to you all the time. I understand it does take some effort for those in spirit to connect with loved ones...usually our minds are not open to it which is why they often come in dreams. (I say it costs energy as it's like talking through via quite a difficult phone connection....it can be hard to maintain) This is not like him being a ghost. A ghost is a spirit who is earthbound, who hasn't really moved on fully to the next plane. Often they might be over attached to former dwellings or events and while maybe part of them has moved on another part has not. Your grandfather is clearly not in this category because he showed you he was well and happy in spirit. He's moved on, he's not a ghost.

How individualised one's spirit is after death is something I cannot know but I've seen it enough times to know that however we conceptualise it (and much will be beyond conceptualising) those who have passed do want to give messages of comfort to those they left behind. This is what he did for you. it doesn't mean he will haunt you in any way.

But I think you can know that he can be near you at times if you should need him or he may drop by just to say hello. He will still be interested in your welfare and can send you hidden support and love from where he is. At times you might send a thought to him if you need his advice for anything. Then let it go and you might find help comes in all sorts of ways. But you must not worry about any of this, it isn't a haunting, he isn't a ghost, he is only trying to let you know he is still there. 9.5 summarised all this beautifully IMO. It's not supernatural, it's natural.


I once had a dream when I was thinking about the purpose of mediumship. I dreamed I was in a car with all my family but then had to leave the car and could not ever go back to it to tell them where I was. I was fine, I was still me but I passionately wanted them to know I was fine because I didn't want them to be unhappy for me. To me this illustrates what it might feel like to someone who has passed to watch unhappy relatives. When I say 'passionately' this feeling was intense, one way or another I just so wanted to get a message to them. So I think the ordinary work of mediums is often just to get this 'I'm okay' message across. But we are all mediums to some extent, all able, if open, to receive messages in different ways. You were able to receive this message from him and he would be pleased about that. Another common way those who have passed to communicate is to send familiar smells. Some people say they can smell their grandfather's pipe now and then for example, or their mother's perfume, that kind of thing. You can also find they simply suddenly pop into your head. That's them too sometimes.

 

[kirilov]

Hi!

Don't really know how to start , as there may be too much crossing ideas in my mind about all these subjects. I have been away, unable to answer, but also trying to figure out some things which are not of an easy answer to me.
One reason is that this subjet drains me a bit...
To start with, about the ghost thing:

All of this dear trojina is very natural. In the dreams i started having when he died, he was as said before, appearing in family situations as when he was alive, but he was not anymore! and i was aware of that fact even though i was dreaming, and his presence was flt clear to me, I think that was the main focus of the dream, always around the table. And that's why i called him a ghost (because of my background pre-concept that a ghost is something that is around us in a different visibility - in some perspectives, as if he hadn't yet left this world- i know some people say some souls need to find their way, as you say, they are too attached to this world, or they don't know they're dead) He never tried to communicate with me then and i was never even afraid. As if he thought he was there. He was really maybe not aware people couldn't see him..It was all very evident you see. it was just an awkward situation.. They were evident as dreams are evident. As if you don't question their reality when you dream. they're as real as this reality is real, until at least u wake up.

The dream in Africa was different from that, it is more real even, and it had a very song emotional impact. It took me two days to re-establish my mind. It was very natural that he was alive at his funeral, he had even a different appearance, and what he said made sense, not as before not as ghost anymore,(different feeling) and that was clear!!!!! i felt love and how i think about him has changed since then
. it all made sense emotionally to me. and that's why i archived it, because somehow it all feels natural, and i don't feel haunted anyway, feelings speak for themselves.
I believe in all of this, as evidence,
The answer targets my belief system, definitly, and that’s what's amazing.

I happen to dream a lot, and have some fantasy dreams, but lately i don't dream much (i know the reason) and asked if he was trying to communicate with me because of that.

About 9.5 - How do i see it

The big one (26) plays games with the small one (hex9) and the small one plays games with the big one. Hex 26 seems to talk about the potentiality. Something that has not yet became. the containment, as a seed contains it's potential to became a tree.
Legge: Controlled Power symbolizes both restraint and the accumulation of virtue. What is restrained accumulates its strength and increases its volume to become a great reservoir of force. The Judgment teaches that if one is firm and correct in this endeavour he may then engage in public service and enjoy the king's grace.
for me retained power is power not exercised yet, not actual, but the possibility (?)


Hex 9 , seems to say

Wind moving above heaven. Small Accumulating. A chun tzu uses highlighting the pattern to actualize-tao.[Actualize-tao: ...ability to follow the course traced by the ongoing process of the cosmos... Linked with acquire, TE: acquiring that which makes a being become what it is meant to be.]
I see it as something trying to be, trying to become.
The conception of something weak or yielding bringing great benefit has been greatly developed by the Taoists who, as though they were familiar with judo, recognize the strength to be found in softness and the dangerous weakness sometimes occasioned by too much strength.
The Superior Man transforms his insights into components of his conscious will. Or: He works on his outer, conscious (as opposed to inner, unconscious), awareness. Or: He lives his beliefs.


It is very interesting that Aristotelic metaphysics seems to apply to this. The idea between Actuality ad Potentiality is the richness of the beings, meaning they became what they are based on the potential they have to become what they are, but they do it full of accidents and imperfectability, they struggle to become in this world - (hex 9) itsema/Karcher:Small Accumulating, Growing. Shrouding clouds, not raining. Originating-from my Western suburbs. [This hexagram describes your situation in terms of a variety of seemingly unconnected events and impulses. It emphasizes that retaining and hoarding these experiences through adapting to them is the adequate way to handle it...]

I'm tryin'

The idea of 'god' for aristotle ( as a necessary cause ) is explained between these two concepts (actuality and potentiality) as a lovers scene - the actual 'god' without knowing attracts those that want to become 'lovers' as a lover attracts (admiration/desire from his soulmate), trying to become one/together. The becoming is the actual development of potentiality into actuality. It's expression. god is pure actuality for Aristotle,

For me it describes an imperfect accidental communication ( or an effort to connect - imperfect as always, earthly, mundane) through the little hole between 9 and 26, where the big one shares it's wealth through he king that attracts to them those who have the potentiality (by trust) to become the communication. Those he
trusts

from james dekorne
Wing: Through a co-operative and loyal relationship with another, you increase your resources mutually. In this way you can accomplish your aim.
Editor: Psychologically, this images an inner unity -- a gathering of energy to address a worthy task. The key elements are the ego's devotion and ability to muster its forces.
''The term individuation means a becoming whole and therefore implies the necessity of reconciling the conscious and the unconscious parts of the psyche. In practice the process involves two steps. The first is that of searching out and recognizing all the scattered parts of the psyche and bringing them together; the second is that of amalgamating and coordinating them, together with the energies that inhere in them, so that they will make a meaningful whole -- a cosmos, not a chaos.
M.E. Harding -- Psychic Energy

A. Pull yourself together and get to work.

C. A cooperative alliance.

The i ching is most amazing here for it even transcends my question a bit,

He says not only he was there as he was helping you became something, because he is very rich,

I hope it's not so crazy fr u, pure metaphysics

k.

I must say i am open to all discussion and communication, above all, that i my motive


Thank ya'll for your careful answers