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gene

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There has been some discussion on the board recently about this line, and I have received it about three times in my own personal readings lately, and come up with some new meaning for it. Hopefully, I can remember what struck me and relate it here, as I did not have been and pencil at the time.

One idea of hexagram 23 is that of stripping away. For example, before we eat an ear of corn we necessarily previously strip away the greenery that covers it. Often it is the same in life when we have to strip away the covering to see what is really the inner core. Another example is the fruit itself. This fruit is uneaten. If we do eat it, we find the seed. Some seeds can be eaten and others cannot. But here we don't want to eat the seed, because the seed contains within it the promise of a new beginning. In relationships or in business, or in ideas, we often need to strip the superficial in order to find the hidden nugget. When we receive this line regarding a relationship, it may be that the superficial realms of the relationship have been stripped away, and we can see it for what it really is. If after eating the fruit, or uncovering the greenery, we find the essence of the relationship, then we know what that relationship is really based on. We often are in relationships for reasons other than what we consciously think. It takes time to uncover the seed or essence of the relationship. Then we find that if the relationship is based on an essence that endures, then, as the superior man, we receive a carriage. If we find the essence is not as we thought, then even our shelter (essence of the relationship) is stripped away.

The seed of the fruit is the promise of a new beginning, and we find that beginning in hexagram 24. If the essence of the relationship is good, then we return to that essence. If the essence is not good, we return to a state of innocence, (pre relationship time.) According to Stephen Karcher's method in "How to Use the I Ching." the changes come about through the line that changes when all non changing lines are changed to yang, and all changing lines are turned to yin. Here that gives us hexagram 43 line 6.Line six says, "no cry." If we do not express ourselves, even to ourselves, and recognize the seeds that are inherent in the situation, then we bring down misfortune on ourselves. Wilhelm Baynes says, "...new misfortunes will develop from the remaining SEEDS..." The important thing about line 6 of 23 is to recognize the TRUTH of the situation. All the yang lines have been tossed out of hexagram 23, only 6 remains, until after it has changed. When it changes, we get hexagram 2. Hexagram 2 requires us to integrate and absorb the truth, yin is contracting, pulling within rather than expanding, but when this is done, then line one turns to yang, and the text says, "When there is hoarfrost underfoot, then solid ice is not far off." this is the onset of winter. It also tells us to check the signs, of our relationship or career or what have you. But hexagram 24 is the result of line 1 changing, and here the also, though winter is depicted, the sun has reached its lowest level, and begins to rise once again. Hence line 1, return from a short distance. So the bad times are finally over. The key is the essence. What is the relationship, career, or whatever truly made of when we get beyond surface appearance, when our eyes finally open for the first time and we see the truth in its naked form. Line one of twenty four tells us to go back to the source, to where the truth was initially cast upon us, and we see clearly, just as after the winter solstice, the light begins to gain strength once again.

Gene
 

joang

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Gene,
that is so good, I printed it out and I'm going to slip it into my book at hexagram 23. That is a keeper, my friend.

Namaste,
Joan G.
 
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dharma

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Gene,
you have a very balanced and unique way of explaining and teaching things that are I Ching related. You haven't put me to sleep yet.
Your presence here at Clarity is much appreciated and valued.

Dharma
 

gene

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Thank you Joan and Dharma, and others too. I enjoy this, I really do. It forces me to take time to learn, and in doing so, I have to come to realize how much I don't know, which is huge, as well as how much I do know, which isn't as much as I sometimes try to tell myself. This is a wonderful site for the interchange of information. I learn from all of you. And have found some wonderful sites and information from this forum.

Gene
 

chrislofting

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Hi Gene,

This is in two parts - the first part deals with generic hexagram material re 23, the second part deals with hexagram 23 line changes.

PART 1

your wrote:
>
> One idea of hexagram 23 is that of stripping away. For
> example, before we eat an ear of corn we necessarily
> previously strip away the greenery that covers it. Often it
> is the same in life when we have to strip away the covering
> to see what is really the inner core.

IMHO this is more 49 than 23. 23 is about pruning. The ERANOS text has the name as:

"PO : flay, peel skin; remove, uncover, degrade, split, slice; reduce to essentials; slaughter an animal. The ideogram : knife and carve, trenchant action."

49 has:

"KO : take off the covering, skin or hide; change, renew, molt; remove, peel off; revolt, overthrow, degrade from office; leather armour, protection."

When we go to the Hexagram Notes material we have for 23:

"In the binary sequence hexagram 23 pairs with hexagram 02.
This pairing of 02 and 23 reflects the dominating aspects of pure yinness in the context of differentiating and integrating. Thus the pure integrating nature of hexagram 02, its focus on dual-mindedness, on drawing-in another/others through devotion to, absolute trust in, another/others is complemented by the differentiating element expressed through hexagram 23 where the unconditional devotion of 02 become conditional with the focus in 23 on 'pruning', on cutting-back the 'weeds' that have grown around one's faith to restore the 'core' elements of that faith, to make them the standards upon which we 'rest' (and so the analogy in 23 to stripping a bed where the bed is a symbol for our beliefs, for what we rest upon).

At the LOCAL level we are dealing with an octet of hexagrams with the EARTH trigram as base. In this sequence hexagram 23, the focus upon pruning, opposes hexagram 45, congregating (and so exaggerating to celebrate).

In the binary sequence hexagram 23 opposes hexagram 43.
This pair deals with concepts we find in gardening where 23 reflects a focus on pruning, identifying the 'true' word, and 43 reflects a focus on seeding, 'spreading the word'.

In the traditional sequence hexagram 23 pairs with hexagram 24.
With this pair, just as 23 prunes, and does so from within the belief, so 24 returns to the belief. Both reflect 'coming back to'.

In the traditional sequence hexagram 23 opposes hexagram 42.
Just as 23 focuses on CUTTING-BACK to get the 'pure' expression, so 42 focuses on augmentation(ADDING-TO) to bring-out the 'pure' expression.

The generic properties of hexagram 23 reflect the mixing of the generic properties of hexagram 02 with the generic properties of hexagram 24.
A combination of total devotion (02) with a focus on returning to the 'true' path (24) is reflected in the pruning focus of hexagram 23."

Note the particular comments in the last section on generic properties where the nature of 23 reflects the mixing of the generic properties of 02 and 24. The act of pruning reflects a devotion to the 'garden', the need to return it to its 'true' expression and that through removing the 'weeds'. This gardening metaphor reflects what we do with belief systems.

The opposite to 23 is 43 where the gardening metaphor is continued with the focus on 'spreading the word' aka the 'seed', the use of 'cuttings' etc etc. For 43, its core makeup is:

"A combination of singlemindedness (01) and being persuasive/seductive (44) is expressed in the need to 'spread the word' reflected by hexagram 43."

These interpretations are all cooperative but we can also make them competitive where 23 becomes the removal of all structure, the end of all form prior to the total darkness of 02, and 43 becomes the imposition of one structure over all else, totally 'blinding' in its expression as all is 'converted' (thus just as 23 removes 'weeds' so 43 can reflect the planting of 'weeds' ;-))

From analysis of the parts of 23, the top trigram of mountain, being in the top position, reflects a focus on discernment, on quality control. The bottom trigram of earth reflects a focus on devotion such that discernment in a context of devotion is expressed as 'pruning', removing the 'crap' to bring out only the qualitative elements. (and this trigram analysis is supported by the analysis of generic properties of 23 expressed as mixing 02 and 24).

Hexagram 49 is different in that the top trigram of lake focuses on intensity in expression and the bottom trigram of fire focuses on guidence. The trigram of fire in the TOP position reflects guidence doubled and that reflects establishing a sense of direction, an ideology. Thus hexagram 49 contains both the concept of revolution, as in the 'old' ideology is in need of replacement, and with that comes the concept of revelation, to unmask and so reveal the core.

the generic properties of 49 reflect:

"A combination of associating with the likeminded (13) with a focus on drawing-in the 'enemy' through a process of pulling back (withdrawal) (33) is reflected in the focus on revolution and revelation in hexagram 49."

13 reflects the singlemindedness in a context of guidence (and so 'likemindedness'). 33 reflects a degree of trickary and the combination focuses on revelation and revolution.

For the top line change in 23 the comment on "The ripe fruit not taken in" (eranos line comment for 23.6) is the generic statement "Some things are allowed to remain for they will redevelop in the future." Thus in the act of pruning one must not be too discerning in that the interactions of flowers and 'weeds' is a natural one such that removal of all but flowers can create an imbalance that means we have to use high maintenance, and so lots of energy and so exaggeration, to keep the flowers developing. Thus, in dealing with belief systems, we should not make the bed too 'rigid', too pure.

The changing line reflects the *influence* of 02 on 23, thus the intense devotion of 02 is excessive and that can cause problems in pruning, we get too carried away in our 'devotions'. Here I make the distinction of a hexagram 'shape shifting' due to influences of other hexagrams rather than changing into other hexagrams, thus a changing top line does not complete the change, it reflects more a distortion of 23 where the distortion takes us 'close' to the characteristics of 02 expressed through 23.

(we see this focus in other line comments - e.g. a changing 1.1 reflects the distortion towards 44 and that comes across in the comments re staying hidden, dont get too 'seduced' (a characteristic of 44) by one's developing 'yangness'. In 2.1 we find the focus on the return of 'something' (characteristic of 24), reflecting the distortion of 02 towards the nature of 24. The comment covers the return of winter, with its darkness and also its covering of snow (smothering but also protecting, nurturing, pure etc etc etc))

As we see in the Hexagram Notes material, hex 24 is a founding element of hex 23 and reflects the property of 'returning to 'something'' and hex 02 reflects the focus on faith and devotion.

PART 2

BTW - the full changing line matrix for 23, 64 possible expressions, is:

43 28 49 31 58 47 17 45
05 48 63 39 60 29 03 08
34 32 55 62 54 40 51 16
11 46 36 15 19 07 24 02*
01 44 13 33 10 06 25 12
09 57 37 53 61 59 42 20
14 50 30 56 38 64 21 35
26 18 22 52 41 04 27 23

you read this bottom right to top left, right-to-left. When you 'change' lines the top line change is only half way! (I have marked it with an asterisk)

The line change for line 1 reflects the distortion to the characteristics of 27 where the focus is on hungering, a need to be filled and so a focus on issues of ingesting (the comment for the TOP line of 23 reflects a focus on NOT ingesting everything ingestable, to leave some behind - something the 'inferior' dont do and so 'suffer' in the long run).

In 27 the focus is on the hunger being so strong as to be willing to take-in anything. In part of the line comments for 23.1 the focus is on the pitfalls of ignoring discernment ("discarding the trial : pitfall") - the 'trial' is the term Chen, here meaning "test by ordeal; inquiry by divination and its result; righteous, firm; separating wheat from chaff; the kernal, the proven core; fourth stage of the Time Cycle. The ideogram: pearl and divination" (eranos p297)

We can thus see in the line comment the characteristics of 27 being expressed where, when starting off (as 27 reflects, the initial conditions that reflect 'hungering') we ignore pruning our perspective on pruning at our own peril. IOW the act of pruning comes with some 'dos and donts' to start with and a changing line 1 suggests we have not/are not considering the dos and donts of pruning, we are too in haste ;-) This my interpretation reads ""Traditions are like a bed, they are something a culture rests on. The first step is to strip the bed starting with it's base. those who ignore this perish."

Changing line 2 of 23 reflects influences of 04 - masking. A mask differentiates from what is behind it and in 23.2 we find use of the term Pien, meaning to mark-off: "distinguish by dividing; mark-off a plot of land; frame which divides a bed from its stand; discuss and dispute. The ideogram: knife and acrid, biting division" My interpretation ""To avoid any conflict, agreement is made on those parts to be removed." (agreement = consensus = social 'mask')

Changing line 3 reflects influences of 52 - discerntment/block. The line comment says little other than giving approval for the act of 'stripping'. We can interpret that as a qualitative assessment of what is going on (and so link-in the properties of 52 influencing the expression of 23). The ICPlus interpretation: "An individual feels that the situation is wrong. He withdraws without fault."

Changing line 4 reflects the influences of 35 - progressing (issues of bring something into the light). The ICPlus line comment is "The tie between the individual and the tradition is broken, it's heart revealed." - reducing the place of rest (our beliefs, the 'light') to its essentials by the use of flesh and as such the coverings rather than focusing on the structure which the coverings enclose, i.e. the bones, is doomed to failure. The link here is the attempt to bring something 'into the light' but doing it in a sloppy manner (we dont prune properly).

Changing line 5 reflects the influence of 20 - admiring. The ICPlus line comment is "Despite the changes, the ruler still retains some of the past within his home." In the act of pruning there are elements that we personally have some 'feelings' for (admiration of, they serve as a source of motivation, as examples etc etc) such that we will retain them even though they are 'junk' from an objective perspective. IOW we can be personally biased enough to not prune something that we should if we are focused on 'true pruning' ;-)

Overall the focus on a changing line as an example of an exaggeration, of a unique state, rather than as an indicator of definite change from A into B, seems to be useful in understanding what is going on.

Note that the so-called 'changing line' states convert to unique, static, dodecagrams (one of 4096 dodecagrams) and as such all 64 possible line change patterns in any hexagram are 'meaningful', they are unique expressions rather than being something 'in transit' (or in most cases, something ignorable other than the 6 lines. Thus a focus on 6 comments per hexagram rather than what should be there - 63 changing-line comments)

Thus one can deal with multiple changing lines where just as we have combined the generic natures of hexagrams 02 and 24 to show the nature of 23, so we can use the hexagram reflected in changing line patterns as a source of exaggeration, thus 23 with lines 1 and 2 changing reflects the exaggeration of pruning (23) through hexagram 41 where too much focus is being made on the pruning to a degree where we are acting as if using a distillation process, trying to create the 'elixar of life' from the pruning and that can be dangerous to the intent of pruning which is to cut back but retain the existing, not transcend it.

Thus all 64 hexagrams serve as sources of analogy in describing the exaggerations of a hexagram where that hexagram is taken as an 'archetypal' form. Thus if I change lines 1 and 2 of hexagram 01 this is interpretable as the exaggeration of the charcteristics of 01 (pure yangness) through hexagram 33. This suggests some form of trickary is involved in the expression of 01 and that is an 'issue'.

Hope the above helps in the act of interpreting line-changes in the IC.

Chris.
 

joang

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Chris, would the popular saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water," be another way of expressing what you said about the top line change in 23, i.e.:

"For the top line change in 23 the comment on "The ripe fruit not taken in" (eranos line comment for 23.6) is the generic statement "Some things are allowed to remain for they will redevelop in the future." Thus in the act of pruning one must not be too discerning in that the interactions of flowers and 'weeds' is a natural one such that removal of all but flowers can create an imbalance that means we have to use high maintenance, and so lots of energy and so exaggeration, to keep the flowers developing. Thus, in dealing with belief systems, we should not make the bed too 'rigid', too pure."

Namaste,
Joan G.
 

learner

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Gene,

Your insight on Hex 23 sixth line is really enlightening, especially when you relate it to relationships.

?The superficial realms of the relationship have been stripped away and we can see it for what it really is. If after eating the fruit, or uncovering the greenery, we find the essence of the relationship, then we know what that relationship is really based on. We often are in relationships for reasons other than what we consciously think. It takes time to uncover the seed or essence of the relationship?.

I received this line time and time again when I was trying to cope with a difficult situation regarding another person and the only thing that I could feel was the fear of chaos.
In fact, the situation was chaotic mostly because I could not get to the core of it.

Your quotation above shed light on the meaning of the uneaten fruit. I can see now why there is nothing to be scared about sixth line, but a lot to be learnt from it.

Thank you so much.
All the best,
Mirian
 

chrislofting

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Hi Joan,

You wrote:
>
> Chris, would the popular saying, "Don't throw the baby out
> with the bath water," be another way of expressing what you
> said about the top line change in 23, i.e.:
>

Umm....that idiom focuses on a warning not to throw everything away just because a part or parts are 'bad' so it is close but perhaps relates more to the lower lines as a 'does and donts' of pruning.

In 23.6 the ripe fruit is as such 'good', it is ingestable etc but to maintain 'natural' balance, an ecological perspective, we leave it on the vine, let it rot, fall to the ground, fertilise the ground, feed the insects that keep the ecosystem operating etc etc. This reflects the 'quality control' in the act of pruning where we need to consider the context, not just the text.

In the original line comment text there is a section with a focus on the 'inferior' suffering in the long run due to their lack of discernment, of not thinking of consequences of actions, where they DO take it all and so cause problems for the ecosystem. ("small people stripping the hut" (eranos p299))

The influence on this changing line is where, treating it as a distortion, it 'shifts' towards expressing properties of 02 - the total, *unconditional* devotion to someone/something. This will include the 'ignorant', the 'small people' where the totalism in the devotion to pruning lacks any understanding of the subtleties required to do the task properly, where that included considering consequences of one's actions. Hard-core devotion to someone/something means you dont ask questions you just 'do it'. This can be a 'problem' ;-) The 'superior' may be just as devoted but also think about things, and so consequences of their actions etc.

My full IC Plus line comment for 23.6 is:

"Some things are allowed to remain for they will redevelop in the future. The superior go on their way. The inferior suffer as always."

Chris.
 

bradford_h

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Hi all-
I just stumbled onto this again.
Am stripping it of conventional interpretations & letting it stand alone:

As the sweet apple blushes on the end of the bough,
the very end of the bough which gatherers missed,
nay, missed not, but could not reach.

Sappho, fr 105a
 
C

cheiron

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Now that makes a lot of sense to me Brad - Stuck at the end of the branch in line six like that...

Thanks

Now who is Sappho?

--Kevin
 

bradford_h

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One of Greece's finest poets, fl 600 bce.
Only fragments remain.
An aristocrat, lived on the island of Lesbos,
She had girlfriends and boyfriends.
 
C

cheiron

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Thanks Brad

I have read the Sappho site with an odd feeling of glimpsing fragments of beauty and of only arriving in time to see the fading vapour tril of some great mind.

Thanks for the other site too... I think that is a place I will be visiting a lot.

Smiles

--Kevin
 

midaughter1

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Dear Gene: I like the Taoist way you see the Yi as energy flows. I think my life was complete when I finally understood the ripe fruit as the line that indicates one can stop the collapse and control the outcome-Ni says this line can determine the outcome of the situation. I remember talking about this with you before-give it a try. Otherwise, the whole hexagram sucks IMO.

Mary
 

gene

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Hi Chris

I was just looking back, because I had forgotten what I had written, and when I reread it, I didn't remember where or how I had gotten it. But I stumbled upon your garden explanation, and it rang bells, once again with the Torah. The story of the Garden of Eden, the fall of man, and the weeds growing in the garden is an allegory of fallen man's propensity to think "wrong", in the sense of incorrect thoughts. As it is also written, man reaps what he sows. So our minds become as gardens and the thoughts we think are either weeds or beautiful flowers. The story goes that by the sweat of his brow man shall earn bread, or in that sense, sweating by toiling in his garden. This fits right in too with what you are mentioning about the bed in hexagram 23 as being our beliefs, if our beliefs are not righteous, (not of right use), then we reap the trouble that we sowed. For, "as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he."

Mary, thanks for the kind words. I have so few spare minutes, and when I can even think about the I Ching, I tear myself apart trying to figure out the taoist aspect of it. For I believe the western world is missing a great gem. The confucian model, and it is a good one, is based more on the judgments of the lines, which is very valid. I believe this relates to the taoist aspect of the I Ching too, but to really understand it, we must have a much deeper understanding of the meanings of the trigrams, the five elements, and the interrelationships between the lines, which I believe W/B gives us only so much of, but how does the interpretation come about when two or more changing lines are not lines that correspond with each other. For example, when line 2 and 4 change, these lines do not relate. Yet there must be something beyond the confucian model that tells us something about the interaction. Some of this of course depends on the trigrams they are in, the elements involved, and whether the elements augment or destroy. If a person truly understood deeply the ancient Chinese, he/she might be able to recognize Chi flows etc in these non relating lines, and much more. Confucius wanted another 50 years to study the I Ching, I want another 50 years per day.

Gene
 

midaughter1

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Dear Gene:
I really believe that a lesson or problem re-appears in our lives until we master it. In your case, 23:5. Why don't you through divination, see how to determine the outcome to obtain a better result? If you able to surmount this 'lesson' you will also make a great contribution to I Ching methodology-actually something for all time...In this scenario the ripe fruit' becomes opportunity for breakthrough.

Best,

Mary
 

anita

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I got 23 very a week ago when I asked about my future at the agency I work in and now I've been pruned out the agency... along with my boss. 'Cost cutting' they call it. Big shock and all that as I'm the only true specialist in writing direct mail in the country, but all for the better. Was scary too because I'm alone in this city - no family except my spiritual family - which is the one that counts really for our connections are eternal. No alimony either, but I do have my own house and do have paying guests. I believe however that a true practitioner will never want. It's miraculous how I've always been looked after by the Divine. Always had a job, for one thing. All I'm waiting for now is for my German boyfriend to finish is diploma and then I'll join him later this year. He should be here before that in fact.

In my next job (I could be Creative Director again - as I used to be for a while, but will not let go my half day)I hope to have even more free time to devote to my spiritual path and my fiction. I could even make a success of an online copy writing course I have created.

I'd received hex 56 too and had been really puzzled by these two answers. Now I know.

I hope I can be as regular with Clarity as I've been all along once March ends. The net's free here at work.

Best for your Quest
Anita

Anita
 
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C

candid

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I've been enjoying this thread, agree with most of it. I don't think 23 sucks though, Mary, unless a person insists on having everything their way.

In W/B 61 it says, "Far- reaching speculations can be linked with these ideas." This also applies to the uneaten fruit of 23.6. In my own experience this has turned out to mean an unrealized idea. Being the only yang line in the hex., and at the top, the idea is far-reaching, not limited in scope.

C
 
C

candid

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I think Brad's poem/post expresses the same idea.

"As the sweet apple blushes on the end of the bough,
the very end of the bough which gatherers missed,
nay, missed not, but could not reach."

Sappho, fr 105a
 

gene

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Anita

Sorry to hear about your loss of job, but as you said, everything happens for a purpose, and I am sure things will actually be better.

Mary

I don't remember ever receiving hexagram 23 line 5 in my life, but I may very well have. Not sure why you are saying this is you. As far as using the I Ching in this circumstance, all I ever get is hexagram 22, which says this situation requires a greater ernestness than the I Ching can give. However, much of my situation is in a sense of my own making, although unconsciously. I don't have a lot of control over the unconscious so I have to live with it. But the neat thing about it is, it's okay. We are all one, and when you understand that, nothing really matters. There is nothing to go after, nothing to worry about. It is all okay. As the I Ching says, "to the superior man, whether death, (or anything) comes early or late, it matters not. He cultivates himself, waits the allotted time, and in this way secures his fate." For he is at peace with himself. (Hexagram 30 line 3).

Gene
 

gene

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In terms of Taoist thinking, I just ran across an interesting tidbit in Master Ni's book. On page 128 he discusses poor energy arrangements, and the first mentioned is hexagram 23. ...unnecessary and irrelevant thinking in one's sitting cultivation, causing the energy to rush into one's head. (Yang line 6) This is something I had never thought of before.

Gene
 

bradford_h

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Hi all-
I personally am a big fan of 23. To me it represents the sort of broad base sustainability that humanity will have to come to grips with if we are ever to survive in the long term. We toss the word sustainable around so casually, but the threats attached are every bit as real as extinction. We're parasites, giving almost nothing back to the earth which sustains us. Even our last acts in our waterproof caskets are insults to the ecosystem. We want the pinnacle of success, the gravity defying tower with the smallest possible base. If you look closely at an old growth forest, exactly half of it is dying. That's a good thing. Seeds don't sprout inside pretty fruit. It's only the stuff that no longer belongs among the living that gets stripped away here.
b
 

anita

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Gene, thanks buddy.

As the temple tells me, everything happens for the best in the life of a true cultivator and I have simply completed this karmic connection and the negative is dropping away from my life - like this job. It's no longer as wonderful as it used to be years ago and neither are some of the people here who out of envy and perhaps some karma between them and me, have been instrumental to this stripping away. But I have no anger and no resentment and they are actually helping me to find other employment!

That also is cultivation. To be able to let go and to accept. Within the week I already have offers. Also as Creative Director with a large agency, but I choose not to work full time. I'm destined for divine work and if I fail to balance my spiritual with my material life, I know I will not be successful.

In fact, I think I will be earning even more now and certainly working with better people. Amazing that all this week of the crisis I've been looking after the Temple, sleeping in Guruji's bed every night. Some of it is bound to rub off on me. I have this great spiritual support and therefore, no fear at all. I have not even told my boyfriend about it - yet. Why add more worries to his life?

Best for your Quest

Anita
 
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anita

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Oh and by the way, I lost the job because they can't afford consultants ike me and my boss any more and I refuse to work 9-5. I haven't done that for 20 years and won't now.
 
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candid

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Brad, beautifully said. That's exactly what I meant by my comment to Mary: 'unless a person insists on having everything their way.' We humans mistake nature as being our servant. It and all life is here solely to provide for us, make us comfortable, keep us from suffering and make our own life the center purpose for earth's existence. Totally delusional thinking. We view death as our loss rather than as earth's natural renewal process. We live apart from nature rather than as part of nature.

Learning to accept loss as a natural and essential part of living is the beginning of seeing life as it is.

C
 

arien

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Hey frinds
just adding my .02?

Nature doesnt bother with us decaying matter, yet when it all putrefacts, the seed has ground to grow (forget the euphemism, seeds love manure, and thats where we came from, and where we're returning to)

Yet I think 23 is more about the new beginning than the old end, at least that is the way I have found to better deal with it. When the past has failed, its better to look for the future

It certainly implies a dead-endless quality to the old ways of dealing with the situation, a more or less literal dismembering that cant, nor shouldnt, be avoided; it demands for a metamorphosis that can be ruthless if we cling to the old structure, yet it has within it the promisse of a new beginning, and I cant feel but excited at the prospect
 

midaughter1

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Dear Anita, Gene, Candid, Arien, Bradford and all,

I think I should distinguish between events that need to fall apart-such a bad relationship or job but not one's health for example as 23 often refers to death or near-death.

Gene, didn't I read this hexagram for you? I remember it and it was in that context that I answered your 23:5 question.

I never once think of using the I Ching to change an unfavorable outcome as insisting on having one's way. I understand that this transformation idea takes a certain amount of maturity. One does not need to be using the Yi to arrest what should be a change for the best.

The I Ching itself points out that tranformation of the future is one of its qualities and one of its important purposes. There is an element of fatalism to the idea that one must be quiescent to one's fate in every circumstance. I wonder then, one purpose what the I Ching have other than to make one a philosophical victim of circumstances.

Misfortune, it is said, is never the will of heaven. Sometimes the Yi guides us through challenging events; sometimes we can avoid them through divination. A very advanced practice,but it can be done. Even an a falling away event that turns out to be for the good in the long run can be minimized -one can take steps, be prepared, not just philosophical about it.

Suppose this 23 referred to one's health-wouldn't you want to know if might help to see another doctor or take some herbs, for example? I think one might want to know if the 23 is inevitable (it may not be) and for the best. Heaven sakes, what is Deliverance for?

Anita, I had been wondering about you and I felt something was going on in your life. But in any event it would be nice if the changes in your life were represented by Hexagram 43 for example and not 23. Hexagram 56, entering into a new situation and perhaps traveling certainly jibes with what is going on with you. You are a prime exampe of how strong spiritual practice helps us through these times.


Does anyone see the tarot Tower in this hexagram?

In my own life, I have some harrowing experiences with this hexagram. I understand that from life comes death and from death comes life-it is a process.

From reading these posts I get the idea that Hexagram 23 has been minimized or euphemized. I think I did that myself until I went through the Hexagram 23 experience once too many times. I am just coming through it now on a health issue. No one should commend this Hexagram until they have experienced it in several areas of life...

That's interesting about the misuse of sitting meditation, I never have come across that.
 

gene

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You beat me to the punch Mary. I was going to mention the Tower, guess I still will, if I have time. Yes, I believe you did give me 23 and I received the hexagram myself several times during that period. Just I don't remember that particular line, but then my memory, well, the old gray mare ain't what she used to be.

Mary, things are taking a turn for the better, don't want to go into details, but I have had this fight with my higher self for years. If I have to work in mundane jobs, how can I practice and make something of myself. But I have always had to work. Now I do have a job, paying higher than what I was doing a while ago, but it is a horrible horrible situation. Nevertheless, if I can get some of the things I need. I am not saying, a blind acceptance of fate. I am saying, it is taking a lot more than the I Ching to go through this. And the horror of the job situation I have gone through seems sometimes like it is not worth it... And I have certain priorities, and if they can't be met, well, then let fate take its course. It becomes no longer worth it. Too deep to get into any more.

Anyway, the Tower. The positive of this card, and it is very positive, is that we have a sudden bolt of lightning that shakes us to our foundations, and gives us a sudden and shocking new light on things. It is like a sudden awareness, the kind of thing that Uranus is likely to stir up, sudden and unexpected. Sometimes the collapse in 23 comes suddenly and unexpectedly. But while mountain is a trigram of earth. There is a light associated with it, as we see in the double line hexagram 20 that is like the trigram mountain. "...Contemplated the people and gave them instruction. (light)" The really shocking event comes in hexagram 51. The ground suddenly shakes, and he looks around, and sees that all around him has fallen, but he alone still stands, as, as with 52, he remained calm. And as with 20, he had the "light of the kingdom." In 25 too, we have the unexpected, where the lower trigram is thunder, and it shoots up into heaven.

Anyway, one thing I really want to do right now is get a book together. The problem is finding a common theme, as I know some about this, some about that, but still struggling to tie it all together. I do believe, and astrologers have told me, my purpose in life is to write. Too bad I never actually get around to doing it. Well, I'm trying.

Gene
 

anita

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Dear Mary,

Thank you so much for your concern and I'm amazed you sensed it coming. I did too, but thought I'd cross it when I came to it. I certainly did draw The Tower as well as 5 of pentacles - Dark Night of the Soul.

I am truly blessed that this contract that was meant just for 6 months, stretched to 4 years. I now have options if I can't find my part time job (I've been working part time for 15 years): either I enter the Temple - they will welcome me with open arms and I am increasingly becoming world weary. Or I hang on and wait for my love to get a job and whisk me away to Germany - which should happen this year. I think they're both wonderful and terrifying as options for they mean radical change. But I'm not afraid because I have the Divine as well as my talent with me.

The more I know my spiritual family, the more I realise that this is where my ideals can remain intact.

Best for your Quest

Anita
 

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