Advice for readers?

[rosada]

In view of the recent comments about whether readers are bias or overly influenced by their own life experience or whether it is appropriate to include personal advice when interpreting a hexagram, I ask the I Ching:

What advice can you give a reader here at onlineclarity?
6.5 > 64

6.0 Could make a good ad..

Conflicted? Feel you are sincere but are being obstructed?
A cautious halt halfway brings good fortune!
(Going any further now will bring MISFORTUNE
)
It furthers one to SEE THE GREAT READERS AT ONLINE.CLARITY.COM!
So don't make another move until you do!
:bows:

6.5
To contend before him
Brings supreme good fortune.

"This refers to an arbiter who is powerful and just, and strong enough to lend weight to the right side. A dispute can be turned over to him with confidence. If one is in the right, one attains great good fortune."

64. sounds like it's saying once the arbiter has given his opinion, it's up to the seeker to decide whether to take the advice or not.

In summation I would say this tells the seeker he must be able to totally let go of his question, let the reader say what ever they are going to say, and then advice to the reader to be just, and then to let it go and not be concerned if the seeker uses the advice or not.

 

[Trojina]

Perhaps the 'contending before him' might refer to the usual satisfactory way of helping someone with a reading on the forum. This is generally several people respond with varying interpretations and so the querant gets a pretty rounded picture of what their answer might mean for them. The reading is just to help open out their understanding of the answer and all of ours aswell.
The querant sees different views contending.

I think its only human that each of us may reveal a little prejudice, reveal our values etc etc we aren't robots. And I think thats fine as long as its clear this is an opinion/a take/ a view on the answer, not an absolute direction as to what to do.

 

[rosada]

When I read Wilhelm's definition of 6.5 I wasn't too pleased because, while it makes sence, it seems to confirm the feeling that the seeker ought be in a state of total willingness to accept whatever may be the arbiter's blunt decree, while my own experience is that seekers are not feeling real self confident when they ask their questions and a little tea and sympathy on the part of the oracle wouldn't be remiss. I therefore was pleased when I read what Guy Damian-Kight wrote about this line,"This is the line of the peacemaker, the person to whom adversaries turn when they cannot resolve their own quarrels and difficulties. This person can be relied upon to give a fair and impartial judgement without any taints of bias or prejudice, and who is able to weigh the merits of both sides in such a way that both parties feel free to abide by the final decision. Honour to the adversary who wins the day." I like that line, "in such away that both parties feel free to abide by the final decision." That is, the advices are best presented in such a way that the seeker feels open to them, so perhaps a little schmoozing while we're giving our insights is not out of place.

 

[rosada]

Why'd you delete your other post, Trojan? We need humor around here!

 

[Trojina]

Oh I don't see 6.5 as blind adherance to an arbitrators decree at all thats just Wilhelm. Never ever once on receiving this line have I handed the issue over to an arbitrator, I mean you don't find one on every street corner do ya Well I don't see the answer the way you do, certainly no need for 'schmoozing', well not in 6.5 anyway. I see 6.5 as open debate and in regard to your question open debate on the answer before the querant. But I'm not sure on what you mean by the question ? Are you asking about someone in the role of querant, helper/interpreter or both ? I thought you meant the interpreter.

BTW you seem to be sticking to Wilhelm to the letter, is that because you like him best or just because you are using him to memorize ?

Last post deleted because humour is oft misinterpreted on forums, people don't know what tone you use or facial expression and sometimes it causes trouble when one doesn't mean it to

 

[rosada]

...just because I'm using him to memorize. Is there one you particularly like? After hearing all the raves about Karcher I went out and bought his, "I Ching the classic Chinese oracle of change. The first complete translation with concordance." Is this the one everybody's shouting about? It's so dry. But maybe it's just me. I like the Sorrells' I Ching Made Easy...

p.s. I meant the interpreter.

 

[Trojina]

Uuum doesn't sound like the one I have 'Total I Ching' - can't be, whatever else it is its very far from 'dry' .

Anyway from Total I Ching here is Karchers version of 6.5 if you don't have it.

Dispute. Wise words ! Plead your case.
The way to the source is open
This is using the centre and correcting. Now is the time to convince people. State your case with clarity and confidence and expect positive results.. This will resolve the situation and open the way to a much better time. The bonding that occurs now leads to great things....Gather energy for a decisive new move.

Don't really have a favourite, mix it all together really.

 

[jesed]

Just in case the comment could be of any use

1.- The question was advice for the readers, not the consultants. So, I understand the advice is for readers. Therefore, I don't see to talk about the actitude of the consultant facing an interpretation.

2.- I can see this answer in 2 posible ways: (depending who is the reader...does the reader is trhe one who contend? or does the reader is the one than solve the conflict?)

a) In the first option:
"When people gather together for nourishment (hex 5), conflict would arise (6)". To be a reader in a public forum like this implies the posibility of discuission and conflict. Nothing to worrie about, just notice this fact. One must be aware of this.

Now, if conflict starts, is better not to fight to probe one is right. Is better to let this issue in wiser hands (Yi itself, or reality's comprobation). This allow one to leave the past and face the future (hex 64)

b) In the second option:
When people came to the reader with their conflicts, the reader must give a fair and impartial judgement without any taints of bias or prejudice, as Guy's quote sais. In this way, the reader open the posibility to face a new future to the consultant

I must say: I'm very touched by the first interpretation, applying it to myself and examinating my last posts (this is linked with Togan' previous advice)

Best wishes

 

[toganm]

Hi,

a) In the first option:
"When people gather together for nourishment (hex 5), conflict would arise (6)". To be a reader in a public forum like this implies the posibility of discuission and conflict. Nothing to worrie about, just notice this fact. One must be aware of this.

That is a good explanation indeed.

The nuclear hexagram for 6 is Revolution 49. Hence the readers input can be the cause of changes that might take place in the consultant's life. It would be interesting to note the upper trigram is dui and the lower is li for hex 49. Inner Joy with the clarity, vision. In a way it looks like 63 as water is above the fire.

When there is not clarity in explaining the readers approach in interpereting the outcome of the question then conflict could be inevitable. Consultant is eager to understand what is the outcome of his/her casting with the coins/dice/stalks as sometimes it can be difficult to see the situation from a bird view (hex.20). Readers may be trying to stick to their interpretation.

My understanding for the nourishment (5) in this forum is not only to have a reading for the outcome of a question, rather a learning experience where different people explain how they come to an interpretation of such and such, hence it is beneficial for everyone involved not just for the consultant who in the beginning raised the issue but also for all readers who have offered their understanding of the hexagram, changing lines, the nuclear, the relating hexagarams.

The nuclear hexagram 49 is after 48 Jing; which is in my understanding not only an explanation of Yi Jing itself, but also the resources that are available to an individual for self development. Ding ( Hexagram 50), which is the process of the development, follows 49, the revolution/reformation that is based on these resources.

When there is conflict (6) due to not receiving enough nourishment (5) then Shi(7) follows, which is in my understanding everyone is gathered around the sages (Lao Zhi, Fu Xi, King Wen, Confucius,ancient and present commentators) for further guidance in understanding Dao De.

In choosing your dwelling, know how to keep to the ground.
In cultivating your mind, know how to dive in the hidden deeps.
In dealing with others, know how to be gentle and kind.
In speaking, know how to keep your words.
In governing, know how to maintain order.
In transacting business, know how to be efficient.
In making a move, know how to choose the right moment.

If you do not strive with others,
You will be free from blame.
DDJ#8

Best wishes
Togan