Ageing body arghh...and a surprise answer from Yi: 26.6>11

[grace heart]

Hello everyone.

There's no other way of putting it, but recently I noticed my body's going southwards. I mean, really southwards, as in - saggy...yikes... and that's despite being slim, my regular yoga practice, Qi Gong, Ayurveda and other bits and pieces... nothing drastic, just looking after it as much as I can.

Half way through my panchakarma stint in Asia - and boyfriend about to join me in a couple of days, I found myself looking in the mirror, and feeling a sense of dread. Pregnancy stretch marks got even stretchier, breasts kind of wanting to join them, and what's up with the papery skin all of a sudden??... My mother once told me how she had to mourn her ageing of her body in her 50s, and I remember not wanting to hear it, figuring out that although she shared her genes with me perhaps little too keenly (yeah, blaming the mother stage), I live a completely different lifestyle, so obvs, IT won't happen to me. Being the oldest around here, for a change, probably doesn't help, either.

Having had a serious emergency dental restoration done in the past, I suddenly thought, well, if that's possible, than why not consider options other than drink lots of water go to bed early cross your fingers and follow your breath? So I asked Yi, wait for it, I asked: Yi's insight and advice about having plastic surgery to lift my breasts and firm up the loose skin on my tummy.

And the answer was 26.6 > 11

Green light... or what?

Would be curios to hear what you think.

Thanks,

Grace

p.s. - note to all the feminists out there: please understand - I just want to be able to burn my bra.

 

[Tohpol]

Thanks for an amusing post.

I don't see anything inherently wrong with a bit of nip and tuck when things go "southward". And it's not as if you haven't kept fit and flexible. And at least on the surface, the Yi appears to agree with your idea.

You could say that at this crossroads of accumulated energy you could focus on the body or focus on your inner self. Obviously, the I Ching's mandate is the latter. But with that in mind, if there were serious repercussions to such an action in your case - it's surgery after all, where there is always some risk - I think the reading would have been different.

All the best

 

[Olga Super Star]

I agree with Topal

But being a woman.. may I ask you how old you are approximately? Are you in your 50s or in your 40s? And did this happen all of a sudden?

 

[grace heart]

I agree with Topal

But being a woman.. may I ask you how old you are approximately? Are you in your 50s or in your 40s? And did this happen all of a sudden?

Hi Olga (nice name, btw

I'm 47. And yep, it kind of did happen all of a sudden. Some things I can live with, some are even endearing (I lie, they're not, I'm only faking it to make it), but there are a few bits I trust can be improved without too much fuss, and a bit of dosh.

Dear Topal: inner beauty is eternal, and whenever witnessed in others, it makes my heart soar. But the impression that outer beauty makes on me ain't lagging too far behind. Wouldn't mind participating in both, and as long as I can when it comes to the latter.

Saying this, I haven't been to a (Western) doctor for over a decade, the thought of surgeons and clinics makes the aforementioned heart sink. So no sudden movements here. At the moment, I'm content with wishing the rejuvenation undergone by Margarita (from Bulgakov's Master and Margarita) would happen to me, like, overnight... although the magic potion did come from Azazello... who was a bit of a devil.. yeah, well... back to the drawing board, maybe.

My best,

Grace

 

[Olga Super Star]

maybe some gym & swimming could help

the activities you've mentioned (yoga, Qi Qong and ayurveda) I associate them with sagging. expecially yoga. What lifts up breast is swimming and some gym or Indian classical dance. Good luck and let us know how it went

 

[Trojina]

FWIW I don't agree with Topal at all when he said this

I don't see anything inherently wrong with a bit of nip and tuck when things go "southward".

I won't go into reasons as it's my personal opinion but I really don't think 26.6 is saying 'yes go ahead'.

Well I say I won't go into reasons but I just do think it is inherently wrong to put the body under the stress of surgery for no real reason and I also think these Drs that do it ought to use their training to help sick people. I think it is a decadent and harmful practise that unfortunately people seem to see as normal.

Sure there are extreme cases where it's necessary but this doesn't sound like one of them. To me it seems wrong to cut up a body that has nothing wrong with it. Surgery is always a stress on the body and an invasion of it's integrity.

Also if you are involved in spiritual practises that you mention why would you not accept the natural aging of your body ?


So that's my opinion what about the reading ? I think people look at 26.6 and just think 'wow yes' but it's actually a bit of a mystery line and I feel a bit of a karmic line. It wouldn't surprise me if you don't do this because events overtake you, you get focused on something else and no longer want it. I suppose my strong views on this kind of invalidates my reading of it but I guess another view won't hurt you.

I find it really weird that people view this as just normal practice but in any case I don't think 26.6 here is a green light. The body is whole and sacred as it is so why try to make it what it isn't by cutting it up ?

In doing it don't you just internalise the standards of mass media that only find the bodies of young women okay to actually exist. Plus this is dangerous and absurdly expensive.

You say 'aging body arggh' in your title but how about 'healthy body yippee'. I wasn't sure what Topal found amusing about your post.

 

[Tohpol]

That's all right - no need to agree.

The post was amusing due to Grace's style of writing which suggests she has a nice sense of humour.

Secondly, just because you have a personal dislike of cosmetic surgery doesn't mean that everyone should be horror-stricken when someone opts for surgery. Personally, on a general basis I'm not in favour of cosmetic surgery either but I'm not Grace.

Opting for surgery may be wrong to you for the reasons given but there's a world full of people out there with diverse lives and reasons for doing so. Personally, I can't ever imagine having a nip or a tuck but I'm not a woman. And for some women - being the primary clients - this brings and has brought enormous amount of relief to their lives. This may be misguided, this maybe superficial, it may even be dangerous but it isn't necessarily inherently wrong imo. (Although I have a great deal of sympathy with your standpoint for objecting to it - especially from our media-driven culture which encourages body centrism).

As to the Yi's reading you are correct it doesn't give a green light. Nor does it say run to the hills. I think it offers a crossroads of choice between external or internal focus. In other words, the IC has left it up to Grace to decide.

 

[Trojina]

This may be misguided, this maybe superficial, it may even be dangerous but it isn't necessarily inherently wrong imo

.

Yes people may choose to have for all kinds of reasons but quite honestly the bottom line here is capitalism fallen to it's worst excesses. There is big money to be made from continually giving women (and men) the message that their own bodies need surgery to be in any way acceptable. I think exploiting that insecurity really is inherently wrong for all sorts of reasons. Yes it's natural for women and men to wish to enhance their appearance but when it comes to actual surgery I think that's a step too far if they are not in any way disfigured. Look at the mess they made of Michael Jackson for example and countless others. I believe what such Drs do is wrong. They take a person who is beautiful as they are and agree to use their medical skills (which are desperately needed elsewhere) to ruin healthy bodies just so they can get rich. How is that not more wrong than being a drug pusher, and there are many who get addicted to this kind of surgery. 'Free choice' is always the anthem of capitalism as you know, 'whatever people will spend money on let them do it'. That's a reality we live with. However destroying someone's body for the sake of making money, well that is wrong IMO.

Yes Grace can surely make her own mind up but I did want to point out there is a lot more to this than some 'dislike' of cosmetic surgery on my part. This is a serious issue in my view. Many people now see such surgery as routine. They see slicing their breasts open and putting false substances in them pretty much like painting their nails or having their hair done. But it isn't.

Personally I can't imagine Yi would say 'yes' to this anymore than I can imagine Yi saying 'yes' to 'shall I go and mug that old lady over the road'. Still maybe I don't know enough about Grace's situation to see the answer objectively. However, her question aside, I do disagree with your view when you said you did not feel it was 'inherently wrong'. Not a crime as such on the part of patient but certainly a crime on the part of Drs misusing their medical skills just to get rich.

As to the Yi's reading you are correct it doesn't give a green light. Nor does it say run to the hills. I think it offers a crossroads of choice between external or internal focus. In other words, the IC has left it up to Grace to decide.

I don't think there is a lot of choice in 26.6 actually. When you are on 'heaven's highway' you kind of have to go with what's happening. it sweep you up, it's bigger than you. That's why I thought Grace may get waylaid on the way to the decision, life takes over, things happen, the pace picks up. Of course there is the possibility that the surgery itself will be part of that great flow in which case I wish Grace the very best.



BTW there is a whole TV series here just dedicated to cosmetic surgery gone wrong http://www.channel5.com/shows/botched-up-bodies/episodes I have never watched it but given there is a TV series about how it goes wrong I could never endorse it to anyone unless it was really seriously necessary

 

[Liselle]

I think people look at 26.6 and just think 'wow yes' but it's actually a bit of a mystery line and I feel a bit of a karmic line. It wouldn't surprise me if you don't do this because events overtake you

.
I don't think there is a lot of choice in 26.6 actually. When you are on 'heaven's highway' you kind of have to go with what's happening. it sweep you up, it's bigger than you. That's why I thought Grace may get waylaid on the way to the decision, life takes over, things happen, the pace picks up.

I had a very clear-cut example of that being true. I asked Yi about buying a gift for someone, got 26.6 > 11, thought it was a resounding "yes, do that!," ran around to buy the item, found out it wasn't available to me, got upset - and then discovered anyway that events (unexpectedly good ones, it turned out) had completely outpaced the whole idea and made it a moot point.

Not to say that's always what 26.6 means. But I do give that line a bit of a side-eye now. Not in a bad way necessarily, just "hm, what is it really saying / what might really be happening".

 

[Liselle]

I wonder if the reading is just saying, "You're going to continue aging anyway..."?

Maybe five years from now you'd think the results were too little or too short-lived to be worth it (time, expense, recuperation).

I mean, not to put words in your mouth - you certainly never said you expect miracles. Still, there's a cost-benefit balance. So maybe Yi's saying "you can't stop the process," in the sense of if you fix one thing, something else will crop up, and then something else, and you won't be able to keep up. You might end up thinking it wasn't worth ever starting? I don't know. Just a thought.

 

[Liselle]

"You're going to continue aging anyway..." Another twist on that might be "if you want to do a couple things, there's nothing wrong with it, but keep 26.6 in mind and stay realistic."

 

[Olga Super Star]

I never had 26.6 but to me it sounded a happy one to get. Yet I am no expert for sure.

Of course this was just a preliminary cast, Grace; should you want to proceed with it it's gonna take you some time to find the right doctor and everything, so you'll have plenty of time to cast again and see how that 26.6 evolves.

I can understand your concern for your breast. I am going back to swim next month!

 

[butterfly spider]

My penny worth here
26.6 to 11 is the favourite line in the book for me. Positive outcomes ..
There is a sense with this reading that what is going to happen will - whatever you do. Not in a bad way - it's just a fact that it will
I am 57 - migrating parts ...

 

[Trojina]

I agree with Lisa's points and Butterfly's and think this can be true in a good way

I wonder if the reading is just saying, "You're going to continue aging anyway..."?

I've looked at 26.6 in my journal and the overall meaning for me if I distilled it down would be that this is it, life ! You are on the great highway that is life and aging and death, you are on that great highway and it's all rolling along and you can't stop it and you can't get off and it's all good, even the aging and death. I've noted it's cropped up for me when at I've been at a low ebb, thinking everything is stuck....then whoosh I get moved along the conveyer belt we know as life to a better place. Life takes over, carries us forward whether things look fortunate or not. I think it is a particularly philosophical answer because we are given the 'big picture'. 26 is all about managing and controlling the energies we are given but by the last line of 26 we have to let go of that a bit because life comes along...and it's good. So whether grace has the surgery or not she's on a roll. And of course it changes to 11 which is called 'flow' by some. Life that rolls you along with it. Someone once likened it to the great highway in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy...

I remember this thread especially in 26.6 because the circumstances were so unfortunate


http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?21290-Neck-injury-26-6-gt-11

 

[butterfly spider]

Yes 26.6 my favourite line - things turn out well.

 

[grace heart]

Thank you guys, I appreciate your thoughts on this. Not sure if I mentioned this in my original post, so apologies if I'm repeating myself, although it certainly wouldn't be the first, but I haven't been to see a Western doctor for I lost count how many years, and find the very thought of something like nip&tuck in equal measures a) surreal, b) icky, c) awe-inspiring (from the purely scientifical point, dear Trojina), and d) scary as hell.

And yet I don't see anything inherently wrong with women wishing to take the evergreen image of youth into their more advanced age. I want to add, 'If she has her head well screwed on/ her feet firmly on the ground/ her confidence issues dealt with good and proper/ her spiritual practice brought to a semi-enlightened level at the very least... Except I wouldn't actually mean it, because I feel this puts even more pressure on women to behave in that maddeningly vague certain-way that makes them act inauthentically in order to please others. But in a more holistic way, so guess that's alright then.

I say, if you want a boob-lift, and have means to do it, then do your research and buy the best pair of boobs the world has ever seen. And make sure you enjoy them - whether it's for five years, or for the rest of your life, don't you worry your pretty little head about that, just remember to keep your New Scientist subscription going (btw, have you read their article on that giant squid undergoing radical plastic surgery? Super-encouraging). And keep that breast-stroke going, too.

... meanwhile, on Planet Grace, Grace's new boyfriend - a man whose entire life revolves around things of beauty and art, lifts his eyes from the book on Serizawa's prints, and says, 'I really love your breasts.' Grace panics. "OMG!" She thinks. "Did I leave the Clarity Forum tab open on my laptop? Has he read it? How dares he?" The boyfriend smiles. 'Don't get me wrong,' he says. 'I love everything about your body... But your breasts, they are so irresistibly, how shall I put it? Symmetrical.' Grace breaths an all-around sigh of relief, and realises she will never understand men.

My best to all,

G.

 

[Yasmin]

A few years later - boyfriend’s remark seems exactly like 26.6, life flowing in the right direction, perhaps deciding to go with the flow and dropping the concern! Grace, if you are reading this would be interested to hear what you did in the end.

 

[Olga Super Star]

Speculating: she didnt do anything-yet!

 

[ZeroPoint]

My own observation is that men are remarkably (to me, given US culture today) forgiving about women's bodies, especially after they like the person inside. Yes, a noisy minority claims beauty is only skin-deep, which tells me how shallow they are (and how relieved I am that I no longer attract them; I'm nearly sixty, and overweight). And I'm in a happy relationship with a wonderful man, which I wouldn't have stayed with if my values were similarly shallow. Celebrate your beauty: some of it isn't measured in inches. Peace.

 

[Dotsbox]

 

[Crystal__Clear]

I just want to say, I think It’s fascinating what Trojina said in this thread about 26.6 and it’s position as the last line in the hexagram. For many years I didn’t fully understand the importance of where a line actually is positioned in the hexagram, but what a profound takeaway it can be, sometimes line six can be such an extreme culmination of the energy represented by the hexagram that its message can seem almost counterintuitive to the nature of the hexagram overall. it’s so interesting to think about.

I’ve had this line many times over the years and never fully felt that I grasped its meaning, I think what Trojina said here was really helpful. Line 6, to me, has seemed somewhat out of place with the other lines in 26 but contemplating its position has helped reign that in for me somewhat.

I've noted it's cropped up for me when at I've been at a low ebb, thinking everything is stuck....then whoosh I get moved along the conveyer belt we know as life to a better place. Life takes over, carries us forward whether things look fortunate or not. I think it is a particularly philosophical answer because we are given the 'big picture'. 26 is all about managing and controlling the energies we are given but by the last line of 26 we have to let go of that a bit because life comes along...and it's good.