Am I pregnant? 13.4 to 37

[AylaXIvy]

Although a pregancy test is in my future either way, I asked the Iching Am I pregnant?

I got hexagram 13.4 changing to 37.

Honestly, just looking at the hexagrams themselves leads me to believe the answer may be affirmative, with 13 as 'coupling' or its various possible names, changing to family. I have however received hexagrams where they seem to more describe the situation of reference as opposed to answering the question directly. What I really have trouble understanding is the line and its possible meaning... Does anyone have any insight into this line?

 

[Liselle]

My goodness, there have been a lot of pregnancy-related threads this week! There are three right now on the front page of Shared Readings. (Just an observation - have no idea what it means, if anything.)

AylaXlvy, I'm certainly not sure exactly what the reading is telling you, but I'm wondering if it's saying to "be prepared," or to "get ready"? Maybe with a bit of a humorous tone? Like, "Am I pregnant?" "Get ready, mom... "

I had this same reading earlier this year, which I posted in what we call the Aha! thread on the forum. It's a long thread; here is the post's location:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?4874-quot-Aha!!-quot-Answers-little-chat-just-post-your-favourite-or-encouraging-results&p=183835#post183835

As an answer to my particular question, I thought it had a bit of a warning tone to it - don't take unnecessary risks which might cause harm to important plans, and, in that way, I'd be keeping good order and taking proper care of my "family" (a friend, in my case). (Please don't think that just because I saw a note of warning in my reading, that there is necessarily the same in yours. There could be, of course, but not necessarily. It could just be as I said - telling you to get ready, wink wink - I don't know.)

Svenrus replied to my post with a different translation of 13.4: "Enemies RIDE up to THE WALL, but CANNOT ATTACK. AUSPICIOUS" - so he thought it meant there was never any danger to my plans. I see his point, and in my example, there is no knowing how it would have turned out had I done something different.

I suppose, depending on how you feel about having a baby, the translation Svenrus quoted could possibly mean you're not pregnant. So - back to what I said at the beginning - I don't know the answer to your question! But it's my clearest example of 13.4 > 37 (maybe not as clear as I originally thought, but anyway...)

Best wishes to you! Let us know the result of your test, okay?

 

[Liselle]

Another way to apply the translation Svenrus quoted to your situation might be that if there's anything you're particularly worried about with being pregnant or having a baby - any specific thing that's causing you anxiety, or causing you to feel defensive or under attack - it could be saying it won't happen. So, in that sense, the reading could be reassuring you about the general situation.

Again, not a direct answer to your question, but as you said, sometimes Yi answers differently.

Here is the translation I was reading, from Hilary Barrett's book. (In case you don't already know, since you're new here, Hilary is an I Ching scholar and the owner of this website.)

"Bestriding your city walls,
No one is capable of attack.
Good fortune."

I'm trying to figure out how to reconcile what I thought 13.4 meant with Svenrus's different take. What I thought it meant was something like, "IF I 'bestride my city walls,' THEN 'no one is capable of attack,' and 'good fortune' will result." In other words, if I took proper measures to defend against problems, then I could prevent problems from happening. Svenrus thought the danger would not materialize at all, that it would never get close enough to actually be danger and wouldn't need defending. There are often many angles on the same casting - I usually end up in knots at some point...uch:

 

[pocossin]

For 13.4 Hatcher has

Mounting those battlements
But not capable of attack
Promising

= waiting in a position of strength

 

[1eleven]

No - not yet. You will be soon though.

 

[Liselle]

Huh. Bradford's interpretation is really different. He's basically saying that keeping such an attentive look-out for danger effectively imprisons yourself.

Okay, why is there such disparity over what this line means??

Wilhelm says this:

'Nine in the fourth place means:
He climbs up on his wall; he cannot attack.
Good fortune.'

Here the reconciliation that follows quarrel mover nearer. It is true that there
are still dividing walls on which we stand confronting one another. But the
difficulties are too great. We get into straits, and this brings us to our senses.
We cannot fight, and therein lies our good fortune."​

So Wilhelm's saying it's not even possible to attack, or fight. Not that you're taking measures to prevent problems, not that the problems don't actually exist, but that you cannot fight them. I don't understand why. What are the "straits" and the "too great" difficulties that somehow prevent it?

AM CONFUSED. Very, very confused.

 

[Liselle]

No - not yet. You will be soon though.

Do you mean that the pregnancy itself is sort of in a state of potential, like the events in the line text? In the line, the person is watching for a potential event, or preparing for a potential event...the event may or may not happen, but there's enough of a chance that you'd best be ready for it?

Is that what you're saying? Maybe AylaXlvy will tell us that she is actively trying to get pregnant.

 

[Trojina]

Although a pregancy test is in my future either way, I asked the Iching Am I pregnant?

I got hexagram 13.4 changing to 37.

Honestly, just looking at the hexagrams themselves leads me to believe the answer may be affirmative, with 13 as 'coupling' or its various possible names, changing to family. I have however received hexagrams where they seem to more describe the situation of reference as opposed to answering the question directly. What I really have trouble understanding is the line and its possible meaning... Does anyone have any insight into this line?

Who calls 13 'coupling' ? I have a feeling someone did but I don't know why.

How you interpret this answer completely depends on whether you wish to be pregnant or not. You haven't said. Mostly answers will include the subjectivity of the querant, your feelings, your hopes, worries and wishes.

For me 13.4 has tended to play out as there is nothing to worry about if boundaries are strong enough and generally they are with this line. So if you don't want to be pregnant it may be reassuring that no sperm got to your egg and fertilised it, that your contraception was a good boundary and there is no need to worry. However if you do want to be pregnant it might indicate the fertilised egg is safely held in the womb...

I've gone for the literal aspect here. But it all depends on what your worry is about...being pregnant or not being pregnant. It seems to me that either way it is reassurance.

Anyway you will soon know for sure when you have a test....

 

[pocossin]

Huh. Bradford's interpretation is really different. He's basically saying that keeping such an attentive look-out for danger effectively imprisons yourself.

Okay, why is there such disparity over what this line means??

Bradford Hatcher does not interpret. He translates. In my experience his translation is the most accurate there is. His translation accords with my understanding of how the Duke of Zhou derived this line text in the first place.

Okay, why is there such disparity over what this line means??

Most people do not have the intellectual discipline to know the difference between translation and interpretation. Decades ago translators were in such disagreement that I concluded that it is best to ignore the appended text, and often I still do, but then Hatcher came along. I don't know if it is the Asperger syndorome, which permits a level of concentration denied the average person, or what, but as translator this guy has the right stuff.

 

[Trojina]

Bradford Hatcher does not interpret. He translates.

He does both. He gives a translation and then a commentary. The commentaries are his interpretations.

Most people do not have the intellectual discipline to know the difference between translation and interpretation.

Well it's hardly a difficult thing to grasp so I imagine most people can grasp the difference between a translation and a commentary. I think newbies often get confused but I don't think it is difficult once they see the difference.

 

[Liselle]

He does both. He gives a translation and then a commentary. The commentaries are his interpretations.

Yes. Here is his paragraph of interpretation, with the part I mentioned in bold:

"Equipped to face the great world with a courage and caution both learned at home, he takes the evening watch and climbs the town's wall with his spears, more ready for encounters in the sense of self-defense. Scouting from above, awaiting some sign of foes to menace his line, his gaze keeps coming back to the grizzly band of tough looking nomads camped outside of the gate, scarred up, missing limbs and presumably teeth. They are probably telling insightful and humorous stories, but he hears only ominous mumbling. That's a kerchief on the big one's belt, not scalps. At least from up here he can watch how people behave, although this is less than the wealth of these stories He dares not open the gate and invite them in to dinner. Going out would change him. Is he not a captive here, in this his own home town?" ​

(Bradford's entire collection of works can be found on his website, http://www.hermetica.info/.)

 

[Liselle]

For me 13.4 has tended to play out as there is nothing to worry about if boundaries are strong enough and generally they are with this line. So if you don't want to be pregnant it may be reassuring that no sperm got to your egg and fertilised it, that your contraception was a good boundary and there is no need to worry. However if you do want to be pregnant it might indicate the fertilised egg is safely held in the womb...

Ah, thank you. I didn't make that connection about boundaries and how that might apply here. And it makes good sense that exactly what 13.4 is saying will depend on what it is that's worrying AylaXIvy (what she sees as the threat that needs to be protected against - the pregnancy itself, or the baby if she's already pregnant).

[Edited - er, I meant "...the pregnancy itself, or threats to the baby..." In other words, the worry about protecting the baby during a pregnancy, if that applies. A couple little words are really important, Lisa! ]

Going by Bradford's list of hexagram names, "Coupling" is not mentioned under hexagram 13. Several translators used it for hexagram 44, however.

http://www.hermetica.info/GuaMing.htm

 

[Trojina]

To me 'coupling' is an odd thing to call 13 ...but I'm sure someone somewhere has called it this I just can't recall who.

 

[RindaR]

The nuclear hexagram is 44, - Coupling.

 

[hsin]

Hex 13 is Fire within & Heaven without: to me, regarding your question, Fire within signifies the spark of life depending on (clinging to) the womb, whereas Heaven signifies creation, new beginning. From this, it seems to me that you are pregnant.

From my perspective, the 4th line signifies Responsibility, which reinforces the idea that you are pregnant.

Hex 37 may be self-explanatory simply as reading "The Family". But the same spark Fire resides within, accompanied by Wind without, signifying adaptability and resilience--an apt response if you are indeed pregnant.

All the Best

 

[pocossin]

Looking at 13 as a visual representation of the querent's body,

Am I pregnant?
13.4 > 37

▄▄▄▄▄▄ 
▄▄▄▄▄▄ 
▄▄▄▄▄▄ 
▄▄▄▄▄▄ 
▄▄  ▄▄ womb
▄▄▄▄▄▄

since Li represents empty objects, I think the querent is not pregnant. Also, line 4 is often the line of inaction. But what about 37 The Family? In ancient Chinese culture a child did not become a formal member of the family until it was three years old, so there will be a delay in conceiving.

 

[AylaXIvy]

Thank you all so much for your responses, and interesting perspectives on the possible meaning behind this line. I'm sorry for not responding sooner, I had to talk to my boyfriend about this and get the test before I could respond properly.
I made a mistake when I said 'coupling', that was kind of off the top of my head as a general understanding of the hexagram, but when I saw that was attributed to 44 I understood how important it is not to do that. Interpreting the I ching is an art, and it clearly requires discipline and focus, so that was my mistake in regard to the use of that term.
The result of the test I took today was that I am not pregnant. Which I am happy about, because I didn't want to be I may not ever have children, and I will be okay with that! lol
I believe I understand now, as you all helped to interpret the line, that the reference to the city wall could well be the wall of one of my eggs. The I ching has a curious way of divulging information!

This matter has ended quite positively for me Thank you all so much for your responses!

 

[1eleven]

Thank you for the feedback!

Jon

 

[bradford]

The most accurate oracles for questions of pregnancy use human urine instead of yarrow stalks.