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Ambiguity answer

candida

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I just asked
"What would be the outcome if we(our family) moved to the town of B" and got hex 14--Posession in great Measure lines 1,2,3,4. ok then the opposite hex of 23 with no changing lines.
These hexagrams semm to be in total opposition to each other so what can I expect? Thanks all.
 

kevin

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Hi Candida

I would not see Bo / Stripping as the opposite of 14? (in any way)

Try reading Bo here as stripping away the old to release the new spirit.

This looks like a very good reading to me.

--Kevin
 

kevin

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Oh, I better put some flesh on that...

From Ritsema Karcher - "Strip away old ideas, eliminate what is outmoded.

Stripping describes your situation in terms of habits and ideas which are outmoded and worn out, Its symbol is the burial practice that strips away the flesh from the bones to release the spirit for rebirth, The way to deal with it is to strip away what is unusable. This brings renewal."

This sounds like more than just a house move - By stripping/dumping old ? (fill in the blank) there is an opportunity for a very wonderful new life.

Happy for you.

--K
 

cal val

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Candida...

It looks to me like you'd be stripped of... separated from... your 'fortune' (whether it's big or small) if you move to this other town.

Love,

Val
 

kevin

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Intresting take Val.

But the four omen lines are positive.

--K
 

cal val

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Hi Kevin...

That's the answer that jumped out at me when I read this one. And I'd say I'm reading more from experience than intuition on this one, except that this one screamed at me. Forget the lines with this one. Look at what the two hexagrams say together.

I've received this combination more than once pertaining to finances... unfortunately. And it hasn't been good news at all. I haven't had it recently though... thank God!... but when I do in answer to a question that involves expense of money, I drop the idea altogether.

Love,

Val
 

kevin

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Hi Val

I am grinning - I too ignored the lines - had the same feeling as you about them.

Yes, experience of a reading is very valuable in knowing what to make of it...

Of course it raises the old chestnut of reading style and meaning.

I have not had this reading. But Bo is invariably a positive (after the discomfort) thing for me.

I shall wait and see if others post.

Hope you are finished with that tough phase for good... Admiring your fortitude (and awaiting the flowering of the next part.)



--Kevin
 

cal val

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Hi Kevin...

I always look at the resulting hexagram before I go on to read the lines. I suppose I haven't learned a lot about the Yi over the 30+ years I've been using the book, but one thing that I have learned is that when the resulting hexagram is a 2, 8 or 23, the action in the resulting hexagram is as important as the primary hexagram. With 2, I am receptive to or receiving the action in the primary. With 8, I'm initiating the action in the primary. With 23, I'm splitting apart from the action in the primary. 24 as resulting usually tells me I've strayed from the proper course, and I have to be really intuitive to know if I'm supposed to return TO the action in the primary or return FROM it. Intuition is especially difficult with 24 resulting because I usually don't want to hear it when they tell me I've made a mistake... *sheepish grin* 41 and 42, 63 and 64 as secondary are usually important... but it's not quite as certainly important as 2, 8 and 23 for me... and, of course, more intuition is required when reading them.

Generally, the more lines when 2, 8 or 23 are the resulting hexagram, the less important the lines, and there are way too many lines in 14 to 23. 14 to 23 is actually generally a no-intuition-required kind of answer for me, and it's a screamer too.

Love,

Val
 

void

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I would automatically go with Kevins initial interpretation. Vals take on it is intrigueing though, hmm interesting since the two readings Candida has had so far are opposite in advice.

How do you know when to ignore the lines Val, is it just intuition ?
 
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jesed

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If I understood well the post, there are 2 questions:
1.- Consecuences of Moving: 14 with several active lines
2.- Consecuences of Not moving: 23 without active lines

If this is correct, in one prhase: The consecuence of moving is the family would have a Great Possesion, a great success; and the consecuence of not-moving is the family would be stripped appart.

Best wishes
 

cal val

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Hi Void...

Yes it usually is intuition. But it's common sense too. It's listening. There are times when the lines just don't answer the question at all, but the two hexagrams together make a strong answer to the question. There are times when the resulting hexagram seems so totally irrelevant, but the changing line (or maybe two) are perfect. If there are more than one line, often it's just about the two hexagrams together... but not always. Intuition required... what feels right?

There are times when the Yi will give me the same hexagram over and over in answer to everything I ask... whether as a primary or a secondary. I know then they've got something important to tell me, and I pay most attention to that one hexagram. Or when they repeat the same primary, changing line and secondary to different questions... I get all goosebumply, my eyes get big, and I look for something important happening around me.

Although I've had some very fortunate experiences and avoided problems when my intuition has kicked in and helped me read the answers, I still feel experience is the best indicator. That's why I like this forum when I haven't had experience myself with an answer. I don't come here looking for interpretations as much as I do to read people's experiences.

Love,

Val
 

cal val

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Hi Jesed...

At first I didn't understand her question and thought there were two questions just like you did, but after I noticed that the changing lines she got in 14 create the secondary hexagram of 23, I reread her question and understood it to be just one question, and one answer.

hmmmmm

Love,

Val
 
J

jesed

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Hi Val

Sounds true

I'd never heard about related hexagram having or not having changing lines. That was the prhase that makes me think in 2 questions.

Best wishes
 

greenowl

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We have very good and experienced readers interpreting this in completely opposite ways that could each make perfectly good sense...oh dear...

What do you guys think about this: sometimes when I'm at such a logjam with a reading, I just go ahead and check it with Yi. I'll ask something like "How accurate is this interpretation: If we move, we'll be stripping away the 'old' to make way for a wonderful new life." Or "How likely is it that you're telling me that if we move we'll be 'stripped' of our 'fortune'?"

Often a follow-up question like that - for me, anyway - will produce a marvellously clear reading. Does that sound like a reasonable approach to the rest of you? Or not? What would be another way?

The fact that Val is so very clear on this exact combination would make me cautious, I think, if it were me. One thing that pops to mind, though - if Yi really does mean you'd be 'stripped' of money - does Yi mean that in an overall life-scale financial disaster sense, or just that it would require large-ish moving expenses? The former would probably be a show-stopper; the latter might very well be worth it!

I'm making a point out of this because I've had trouble with that kind of "scale issue" myself. I've learned that if it's a really important decision I'd better make sure to distinguish the apples from the oranges, rather than just stopping at "fruit."
 

kevin

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Hi Greenowl

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

I just go ahead and check it with Yi.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Most definitely.

All of the interpretations I do on this site are first checked with a reading.

And yes, I agree with you - follow up readings are very important - I will always ask claryfying questions if the response is less than very clear.

I have slept on this difference of opinion?

Someone here recently made the point that the Yi will gives readings using hexagrams in the way the receiver will understand. They were referring to method. So if the person is going to perceive the relating hexagram as the outcome then the consultation will be in a form to fit that approach.

As I learn more my perception of the clusters of meanings of different hexagrams and their components change. The Yi very much reflects this in the results it gives me.

This is quite a wonderful thing? As I develop a more sophisticated language of understanding I get fuller and more detailed answers.

I use the Yijing in a number of different ways. One of the methods I use is ?Conversational?. This is where I cast rapidly and use the Yi as a ?prompter? to move my thinking as I try to move and refine an idea I am trying to form. This method is very effective. However to make it work well I use a shifted set of meanings for the hexagrams. In other words I choose a different language. The Yi is pretty multi lingual clipart{biggrin}

For this reason I am uncertain of the safeness of using other peoples experiences of a hexagram when the meaning is markedly different from the core accepted meaning. Having said that I have learned a lot by listening to others experiences of hexagrams which are not what the text might lead one to expect.

--Kevin
 

cal val

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Something I thought to point out last night...

The force that speaks through the Yi (at least in my case) tries to make the communication between us as easy as possible. And tries to answer my questions as well as they can using a book that poses much limitation to the process.

There's a logical sequence here. 14 is first, 23 is last. Now you have the money... now it's stripped away. Simple and easy.

Candida...

Are you going because of a career promotion? If not, have you or your husband researched the economic climate in this new town? What kind of industry is there? What's the growth index? What's the unemployment rate? What is the demand for your particular skill sets? Social and political climate? Cost of living? Educational opportunities for your children? If the answers to these questions indicate you can easily thrive and grow as individuals and as a family in this new town, then I believe follow-up questions are appropriate... especially in light of the fact you feel the answer is ambiguous and there is indeed ambiguity in the interpretations of the answer here.

Your question was rather ambiguous as well. "What would be the outcome if we(our family) moved to the town of B?" Outcomes happen every moment... there's an outcome every time you take a breath. So there's a lot of different possible answers they could have given you... it depends on the moment. So the Yi might simply be starting with the soonest moment and saying it's going to cost a lot of money to make the move. Maybe if you ask about short term financial impact... then long term financial impact... ask something about opportunities for the children's social and educational growth... you know?

Love,

Val
 

void

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If I understand what Val and Kevin are saying the Yi fits to the method one uses ? So if I always tend to think of the relating hexagram as the context or background of a situation not its future development, then if I got 14 changing to 23 presumably it would not serve me to interpret it the way Val has ? Val ? If I'm now in the habit of thinking as the relating hex as context I'd think situation is falling apart (23)moving will rescue it (14). Is that right for me ?

Asking because if I had received Candidas answer 14 - 23 I'd be merrily making plans to move, thinking I'd had a fantastic thumbs up from the Yi.

I'd really be interested to hear how others would view this answer, because Val has turned my Yi understanding upside down


Or is it Val that you mean this is just how you would take this from your own individual way of relating to Yi ? You wouldn't go as far as to say if anyone threw this for this question that is what it would mean ? You mean it would depend on how the person views the relating hexagram determines how Yi responds ?
 

void

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In other words you see 14 as first, 23 as last - I see it other way around.
 

cal val

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"In other words you see 14 as first, 23 as last - I see it other way around."

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

...and got hex 14--Posession in great Measure lines 1,2,3,4. ok then the opposite hex of 23 with no changing lines.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Which did she get first? Which did she get last? What am I missing if she didn't 14 first, and then 23? I WAS a bit confused reading it at first. Maybe I was more confused by it than I thought.

Love,

Val
 

void

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Yes the changing lines lead to 23 so in that sense 14 is first - but if I don't see the relating hex as future but context/background then 23 is background of 14, not progression of 14 situation. Maybe I can't explain....anyway Candida has gone very quiet.....
 

candida

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Hi Val, Void, and Kevin,
Its' been so long since last we met......lol
As many of you well know (at least Val) our family was homeless last yr. We did eventually find a trailor in the boonies to rent. We are truly grateful for having had this place for the last yr.. especially in light of the Katrina horror. However, its' in our best interest to be in town for many reasons(gas consumption, loneliness) We only took this place cause there was no place to go.
Therefore, I asked Ching "What would be the outcome if we moved to the town of B" and absolutely received hex 14 first with the 1st 4 moving lines and hex 23/ no lines.
Val, the reason I asked the Q this way is another site said that this would be the best way to ask a Q of this kind. You wanted to know if I asked Q's about the economy there, growth, issues, etc. and yes we have looked into the work staus and hospital,etc.& found it to be pretty good as it is 25 mis. from Pittsburgh, PA. also, we have a dog and there are many apartments in B(the place we are enquiring of) which will rent to dog owners. It seems no one wants to rent to people with dogs and that is highly understandable.
It does seem as if Kevin and Void are right on as far as it being a great opportunity for us. However, Val your answers have great merit too. At least they sound wise to me. I know that everyone that posted on this has only our best at heart and that is much appreciated!
I've found that I myself, have to ask simple Q's here or in a simple manner so to speak, so I can understand the answer given and even at that it is hard to decipher! lol It is admirable that so many of you understand the profoundness of the answers cause my learning disability limits me to understand sometimes.
Val, how in the heck are you anyway? and Kevin and Void and any others thanks for all of your kindess.
 

candida

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Hey gang,
I just asked the Q "I wonder if it achievable and or wise to move to B at this time" and got hex 30 all moving lines EXCEPT 2 and 3. This sounded really good but as in asking the original Q above, ambiguity again cause the relating answer is -- Obstruction no lines.
 

cal val

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Candida...

Hi... Did you get my email a couple of weeks ago? Inquiring about your health? I want to know if you're okay... after that surgery gone awry you know. We haven't heard from you since then on the forum.

I'm okay. It's been over two weeks since my last mammo, I haven't heard any word yet, and I'm going with the old adage, "No news is good news."

I sure hope you're well. Why are you considering moving into town now? I mean did you find a place you like there and can afford? Did you or your husband find a good job in town?

I can't help you with 30 to 39. I don't like receiving it. You know I mentioned to Kevin (up there somewhere) that when I get 30, I feel like it's the Yi telling me I'm understanding correctly? Well, when I receive 30 to 39, I feel like the Yi's telling me I'm not understanding correctly... that clarity is obstructed. Sorry... I don't know what it means relative to your question.

Love,

Val
 

candida

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Hi Val,

I am so sorry that you are waiting for another mamm answer. It is so hard to wait on those, isn't it? As you said, "No news is good news" so that sounds real hopeful. I am saying a prayer for you when I'm done posting here.
As far as I can tell, I am doing well Val. I had a surgeon look me over after the botched up mess(hemmorhage)from the biopsy and he said that everything is in A1 shape. Of that I am extremly grateful.!!!! I do know that the message in medical fields is looking absolutely great as far as breast cancer goes; with that medicine that was in the news last week. I don't think Tamoxifen was the name. However we'll have to keep the faith that we will NEVER EVER CLAIM it (c word)!
How I wish my faith in every issue was solid. It can't be or I wouldn't ask Q's here.
I forgot to mention that I did not get your email about my health. It was nice of you to inquire really. I got a huge amount of emails in bulk, something like 450. Perhaps it went there. When they get that large I never look; its too time consuming. I am sorry I missed it but thats ok as we get a chance now to talk.
The only reason we want to move is that it is more convenient for two disabled people to live in town, to have access to stores, church, activities; and our son is out of work.
My husband has no friends here and it makes him extremely blue. His friends all left when he ended up in the wheelchair. Even if he didn't make one friend in town, at least he could wheel and window shop and greet passersby. This situation makes me sad so I pray daily for guidance. God must be inundated with my prayers to the point of exasperation but God said that we are "To cast all our cares upon him for He cares for you" I forget which book of the Bible that comes from at the moment. A person doesn't want to complain because there are so many people without anything in this world but the handicapped have specific needs too.
You said that you don't like receiving 30 to 39---
"I feel like the Yi's telling me I'm not understanding correctly...that clarity is obstructed.' In a way Val, just you're having stated that sentence has helped me because clarity is obstructed for me at the moment and thats what I've been dealing with; understanding correctly..clarity. To be honest, I don't come here much because I want to come to God alone with my issues. I mean, I'ts great to want to share with other people but I don't want to put another God like thing(IChing perhaps?)before God. The only thing is, here I can get tangible feed back as in instant answers sort of. Maybe if I found a way to really listen more to God he'd give me answers in my heart. I know that the Bible says that, "By faith Noah, by faith Issac, etc. by faith these people got answers and the Bible says that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Said all that to say this. My faith wavers greatly
and am just looking for clarity as we all are.
Val thank you for the loving gesture concerning the email to me. I decided to pray for you right now instead of waiting so God speed those excellent prayer results to you. Your friend, Candida
 

cal val

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Hi Void...

Gotcha... I think. I think you're saying you're pretty consistent about seeing the secondary hexagram as background to the message in the first. Yes?

As I pointed out in my post about reading intuitively, I don't have any rule of thumb about reading changing lines. I don't have any regarding the secondary hexagram as well... except when the secondary is 2, 8 or 23... and then it's only a 'usually' kind of rule of thumb... not an 'always'. Furthermore, the force made that rule themselves... I didn't. I just caught on over time... through experience. My feeling is that the book is limited enough for use in communicating without me further limiting it with rules. I know a lot of interpreters suggest rules or repeat rules established hundreds of years ago by other interpreters. Steve Marshall, whose work I admire tremendously, cites some rules about reading lines on his website, especially about reading multiple lines and keeping it simple. He concludes, however, that listening to one's intuition is more important than following the rules. I agree.

Love,

Val
 

void

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Glad you got me in the end Val. Yes I agree I would think much more can be revealed through a more fluid approach on the part of the diviner rather than adhering to rigid rules. I used to have the rule that the relating hex was the 'result' but it never made any sense at all so I did it the other way around and have kind of stuck to it like a rule for myself. I suppose I must be more rule bound than I ever thought since it never has occurred to me to sometimes just take hex names to give simple event pattern like you did with 14, 33 and here.

I suppose this less ruled governed approach really makes the Yi seem more of a personage since it then must adapt to what one most easily understands. It knows I am fairly unimaginative so it always plays by the rules for me, heh heh
 

cal val

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Hi Candida...

Thank you so much for your prayers. You are such a kind person. I would really like to see you and your family be able to move into town then. It sounds like everyone would be happier if you could. I'm keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers as well.

Love,

Val
 

cal val

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Hi Void...

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

...it always plays by the rules for me, heh heh<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> And there you have it, and that's why I love the Yi... it does whatever it has to to communicate. And believe me... it's no easy job communicating with me.

Love,

Val
 

kevin

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Hi Val

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

And there you have it, and that's why I love the Yi... it does whatever it has to to communicate. And believe me... it's no easy job communicating with me.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Yup - My name is on the list for that one - the Yi positively shouts at me when I am very slow.

Wishing you the best with your health too.

--Kevin
 

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