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An idea, testing it, Three Unchanging Hex in a row!

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An urge, a sudden idea, to leave everything behind, and go on an extended trip overseas -- (this idea that occurred to me today). It would be not so easy to pull off but, if it happened, it would be a total shift and refreshing.
How often I stay still and stuck from complacency!
I mentioned this idea to a friend, who was highly skeptical, and told me to wait, relax and not do anything impulsive.
Why the push back?
I allowed myself to fantasize about actually doing it.
And then as I imagined it, I realized it might be possible, if I were willing to leave everything else behind (like career concerns, stability, etc).
So I asked. Good idea?
50u
and clarify:
16 u
and clarify more
31u
What do you make of it?
 
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I would say yes! I have seen hexagram 50 as yes in general. 16 shows you will have fun.
The choice is yours!
 

steve

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It looks really favourable doesnt it

Steve
 
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Hi Vissino and Steve,
This idea got me thinking about making a shift in my life. I wouldn't do it just on the basis of the Yi, obviously, but suddenly this idea opened up for me, as I consulted the Yi.
Thanks!
 

Tim K

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Hmm don't want to rain on your parade but I don't really think 50 is a good one.

Let's look at all the leading lines:
14.1 → 50 (Containing)
Legge: There is no approach to what is injurious, and there is no error.
Let there be a realisation of the difficulty (and danger of the position), and there will be no error (to the end).

Richmond: No involvement with evil. No error.
Being aware of difficulties he remains free of error.

56.2 → 50
Legge: Shows the stranger, occupying his lodging-house, carrying with him his means of livelihood, and provided with good and trusty servants.

Richmond: The wanderer is safe at an inn and still has his valuables.
He has a loyal young servant.

64.3 → 50
Legge: Shows its subject, with (the state of things) not yet remedied, advancing on; which will lead to evil.
But there will be advantage in (trying to) cross the great stream.

Richmond: The movement is not complete. New directions are unfortunate.
The advantage comes in crossing the great water.

18.4 → 50
Legge: Shows (a son) viewing indulgently the troubles caused by his father.
If he go forward, he will find cause to regret it.

Richmond: He tolerates actions of his father. Continuing causes regret.

44.5 → 50
Legge: (Shows its subject as) a medlar tree overspreading the gourd (beneath it).
If he keep his brilliant qualities concealed, (a good issue) will descend (as) from Heaven.*

Richmond: A melon wrapped in leaves is hidden. Something falls from heaven.

32.6 → 50
Legge: Shows its subject exciting himself to long continuance.
There will be evil.

Richmond: Forced continuance has no merit.

56.2 is the only positive/neutral one. All others say 'contain/put a lid' on something. Stop/prevent the movement. Traveller is happy to be put into bed in his room at the inn, but others are not.
19.1, 64.3, 44.5 want to get closer to something, 18.4 doesn't mind being in contact with something evil,
32.6 doesn't want to let go.

There is an enthusiasm of 16 to let go and do something crazy for sure, with 31 as an attempt to connect with some 'place', but 50 I think says end of journey, not the opposing 3 - a start.
 
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Hi, Ashteroid, indeed I was wildly and impetuously considering, not rationally deliberating, when I cast that reading. Even today, I am more sober about it.
Can you point me to an article or explanation of leading lines? I'm not familiar with your method: you are taking unchanging hexagrams and getting clues to their interpretation from changing lines. How does that work? Thank you.
 

Tim K

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It's just something that I've made up to understand each hex better.
I just look at the 6 possible scenarios where the hex in question is a relating one (except inverse and opposite one). That's it. Trying to feel the dynamic/influence of the relating hex on the line's text.

The basic method is to look at the hex's own lines, but it gives a different story. Why not then look at the reverse lines (fan yao) ?
 
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Why not look at the changing lines in the original hexagram instead?
To look at the changing lines of the relating hexagram is illuminating but I am not clear that it is most accurate.
Why not instead: 50.1 to 14
50.2 to 56
and so on?
 

Trojina

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Why not look at the changing lines in the original hexagram instead?
To look at the changing lines of the relating hexagram is illuminating but I am not clear that it is most accurate.
Why not instead: 50.1 to 14
50.2 to 56
and so on?

This is madness....you got 50uc there is no need to consider any lines at all and certainly no need to consider lines of hexagrams you didn't even get. No disrespect to Ash, I know how he likes his transitional lines..... but it seems to me he has ignored the actual answer here in favour of a load of answers you didn't even get. I just think it has gone too far when the actual answer received is bypassed completely in favour of a conglomeration of other lines not received. Also there is no relating hexagram here at all so how can you look at the lines of the relating hexagram even if you wanted to ? An unchanging hexagram has no relating hexagram.............




An urge, a sudden idea, to leave everything behind, and go on an extended trip overseas -- (this idea that occurred to me today). It would be not so easy to pull off but, if it happened, it would be a total shift and refreshing.
How often I stay still and stuck from complacency!
I mentioned this idea to a friend, who was highly skeptical, and told me to wait, relax and not do anything impulsive.
Why the push back?
I allowed myself to fantasize about actually doing it.
And then as I imagined it, I realized it might be possible, if I were willing to leave everything else behind (like career concerns, stability, etc).
So I asked. Good idea?
50u
and clarify:
16 u
and clarify more
31u
What do you make of it?


I wrote a long answer and got logged out...but to sum up. First 50uc is your answer. I don't think you need to ask 'clarify' twice when you were already answered.

50uc. A cooking pot. This proposal is like a cooking pot. What is cooked depends on bringing all the right ingredients together to make something good. Also the pot needs to be on a stable base. So I don't think this is a 'yes' or a 'no', the question is being given back to you, it's up to you, you can make it happen. But you need to think about how all the ingredients of your life blend together and how this trip will accommodate or change things. Also a lot depends on the right things coming together at the right time. Think of cooking a meal, which ingredients will work together to make something good. Can you blend your relationships, your work, your health....all aspects of your life, how will they come together with taking this trip ? Also is there a sound base for your cooking pot. Before you even start cooking you have to make sure there's a stable basis for a transformation of separate ingredients into something new.

I feel 50uc here shows this is for you to decide as you have no lines giving specifics at all. It's a reminder IMO that your life is something you can create here, you don't need permission, there's no fatedness around this of it not working. You don't need to worry about 18.4 or 50.4 or any other line as you did not cast them. So before you go on your shopping trip think about what you want to cook, what will go well together.

Also remember the vessel here is a vessel of transformation....cooking transforms separate things into one meal. I wonder if this trip doesn't bring together various strands of your life/mind. The trip itself may be the transformative vessel.
 
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Trojina,
I have also been confused by some readings, on the forum, which consult the changing lines of the relating hexagrams. I realize this can be done (to offer a kind of shadow of the original, where there are changing lines), but for me, it gets elaborate beyond credibility. I agree, where the hex is unchanging, why consult changing lines at all. But, I meant to say, GIVEN ash's premise that the changing lines (of the whole hexagram) COULD be consulted to tell a deeper story ,my question was, why not the original hexagram rather than the relating one? I mean, this could be done, if you were to take account of the entire progression of all 6 lines, to show more deeply what 50u means.

I know what you mean, too, about not asking for further clarifications. Though I DO sometimes do that. And I don't see it as a big problem, so long as I stay consistent with all of them, rather than playing one off against another (though it can be excessive). So it was striking that I cast three times and received three unchanging hexagrams.

All of that said, yes, your reading of 50u makes a lot of sense. It is the situation. As an impulsive idea, there is not much to it. But if I give it a foundation, and all the ingredients come together, indeed it could work. I asked the question in part to get myself out of the rut that I'm currently in, which is a linear mind-set about my life, where I'm calculating a lot about career moves, and such things, and it feels like a new impulse or surprise could be more life-giving.

Thanks for your input.

PS -- so if I were to take the unchanging additional hexagrams as clarifications

16 and 31 seem to say that this idea generates attraction and a certain pleasure, but as yet, that's all there is to it.
 

Trojina

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Hmm don't want to rain on your parade but I don't really think 50 is a good one.

And I don't want to rain on your parade but you haven't said anything about 50 and that was the answer....If you read the text of 50 how in the name of sanity can you say it's 'not a good one' because of the lines that you find connected with it ? Don't you think you need to actually read what hexagram 50 says, what it's images are ? I don't know why you have totally bypassed the entire meaning of hexagram 50 in favour of lines quite far removed from it. You cannot sum up hexagram 50 as 'not a good one' Ashteroid, that's just not the case.
 
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"I feel 50uc here shows this is for you to decide as you have no lines giving specifics at all. It's a reminder IMO that your life is something you can create here, you don't need permission, there's no fatedness around this of it not working. You don't need to worry about 18.4 or 50.4 or any other line as you did not cast them. So before you go on your shopping trip think about what you want to cook, what will go well together."

Nice point! I don't need permission!


"Also remember the vessel here is a vessel of transformation....cooking transforms separate things into one meal. I wonder if this trip doesn't bring together various strands of your life/mind. The trip itself may be the transformative vessel."


I will reconsider it in this light. This sounds right, IF it becomes such a vessel, it could be a good move, rather than merely an escape from pressures (which I now also experience).
 

Trojina

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I have also been confused by some readings, on the forum, which consult the changing lines of the relating hexagrams. I realize this can be done (to offer a kind of shadow of the original, where there are changing lines), but for me, it gets elaborate beyond credibility.

Well that's because it is elaborate beyond credibility and what is more some of these terribly complex methods do not lead to better interpretation. The fan yao might be used as help in considering the line received but it is not the answer. Reading the other lines of the relating hexagram is IMO a misleading practice in terms of practical interpretation. Very misleading for newbies although you aren't a newbie I don't think.


I agree, where the hex is unchanging, why consult changing lines at all. But, I meant to say, GIVEN ash's premise that the changing lines (of the whole hexagram) COULD be consulted to tell a deeper story ,my question was, why not the original hexagram rather than the relating one? I mean, this could be done, if you were to take account of the entire progression of all 6 lines, to show more deeply what 50u means.

Yes, I know you were responding to Ash's premise. I was responding to you responding to him



I know what you mean, too, about not asking for further clarifications. Though I DO sometimes do that. And I don't see it as a big problem, so long as I stay consistent with all of them, rather than playing one off against another (though it can be excessive). So it was striking that I cast three times and received three unchanging hexagrams.

Yes I think the fact you got 2 more unchanging hexagrams was like Yi folding it's arms. I have the sense you needed to stay much longer with the 50uc, it's a very rich answer.

All of that said, yes, your reading of 50u makes a lot of sense. It is the situation. As an impulsive idea, there is not much to it. But if I give it a foundation, and all the ingredients come together, indeed it could work. I asked the question in part to get myself out of the rut that I'm currently in, which is a linear mind-set about my life, where I'm calculating a lot about career moves, and such things, and it feels like a new impulse or surprise could be more life-giving.

Thanks for your input.

PS -- so if I were to take the unchanging additional hexagrams as clarifications

16 and 31 seem to say that this idea generates attraction and a certain pleasure, but as yet, that's all there is to it.


Mmmm personally I don't see them as clarifications...because 50uc was so clear but you didn't stay very long with it maybe ? I'd see the 16 and 31 as to do with you asking for clarification not the clarification itself. I don't agree with your take on 16 and 31 here because 50uc already said this is quite possible if you can bring the right ingredients together.
 

Trojina

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I should add, no offence intended Ash. It's just in this particular case I could not bear to see 50 simply given the meaning 'not a good one' and then all those other lines made to mean 50 when 50 itself was bypassed. I can't understand why you would do that :confused:
 

Trojina

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Another thought on 50uc here is that things might need to be in place before you do this. The idea may need more 'cooking'. So maybe you aren't quite ready. If that's the case 16uc would show you envisioning the possibilities. Even if you cannot do this right away you can prepare to do it and see what comes up
 
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I completely agree with you,Trojina, that 50u is the main thing to focus on . Why ask for clarifications when I had not really absorbed and digested the original answer?
What you said about the trip being a transformative vehicle is something I can work with.
Actually, if I find a way to make it so, I may go ahead and do it.
That's very thought-provoking.
Ashteroid gets really ingenious with interpretation -- and sometimes it is quite brilliant --. I appreciate that you brought this conversation back to the basics and fundamentals, Trojina, which should never be bypassed.
 
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Sixth Relative

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And then as I imagined it, I realized it might be possible, if I were willing to leave everything else behind (like career concerns, stability, etc).
So I asked. Good idea?
50u

Hi

1.- From a text-based approach
According with the 10th Wing, 49 is about getting rid of the old and 50 is about welcoming the new. First, you depose the old dinasty (49) and then you consolidate the new order (50). Remember that Ding is not a common cook divise, it's not for everydayl meal; it is the ritual instrument for the king to legitimze his mandate of heaven with the offerings to Heaven and ancestors. Dings are used whenever new dinasty arises, to establish it's right to rule.
So, the trip would be the ritual way to start a new dinasty in your life. It's a good idea if the revolution has been already achieved; it's not such a good idea if the revolution is not completed yet. The question then would be: have you already started and completed your life-changing revolution? If not, then this trip would be premature now. But, if you already has completed the revolution, yes.. this trip would be a favorable consolidation of the new era.

2.- From a Wen Wang Gua perspective (assuming you tossed the coins on April 28, 2016)
a) In 50, the line representing you is Hai (water) with Official relative attached.
b) For this question, there are three key elements: Official (you got something / something happens), Offspring (you got nothing / nothing happens) and Parent (something set up, fated to be).
c) In 50 Official is Hai (water), Offspring is Wei (earth) and Parent is Mao (wood).
d) Hai (water) in a month Chen (earth) and day Chen (earth) is in a stage of death. Too weak, for seasonal reasons; it's not the right time.
e) Wei (earth) in a month Chen and day Chen is in a stage os Association. It is strong, healthy
f) Mao (wood) in a month Chen and day Chen is in a stage of Imprisonment. Is not strong enough, it is uneffective for seasonl reasons. It is unable to act temporarily. Even more, in 50, Mao is hidden.
All in all, it is not the right time to undertake this action. It's not a bad idea either, just not good timing.

Best wishes
 
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Hi Sixth Relative,
Your interpretation #1 makes a lot of sense. I have been going through a revolution and it is just finishing, though not quite totally finished.
The question now is: whether to do something more conventional and practical (and career-oriented) or to consider doing something more out of the box, like living overseas (which, to pull off, would take me away from my career path).
As for #2, does it make a difference that I asked this yesterday? It was certainly yesterday not today, so 4/27/16
Thank you for your input.
 

Sixth Relative

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As for #2, does it make a difference that I asked this yesterday? It was certainly yesterday not today, so 4/27/16
Thank you for your input.

Yes, it makes all the difference of the world.

April 27th, 2016 is Month Chen (earth) and day Mao (wood). One on the old books on wen wang gua states that Day is the ruler; meaning it's influence is of paramount importance.
a) Offspring (you got nothing/nothing happen) is Chen (earth). Wood from the day destroys earth. It's weak for seasonal reasons.
b) Parent (something fated to be) is Mao. Since it is the same than the day, it is not hidden at all.
c) The earthly branch of the day (Mao) clashes with the earthly branch You (metal), making that line to behave as an active line. In 50, you have 2 lines with the earthly branch of You (lines 3 and 4), with the Asset relative attached. You (metal) moves to produce water (the line representing both you and Official - something happen /you got something). This implies tha you will have the economic resources to undertake this action.

All in all, from a WWG perspective, this trip is a good idea; it may happen in a day/month/year with the earthly branch of You, Hai, or Si.
 
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Hi Sixth Relative, it was April 27 Pacific Time zone , so that is yesterday's since that's my time zone , right? If I did this trip it might take place in September or October of this year but that's uncertain. Around there.
 

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1) I did write about 50: "but 50 I think says end of journey, not the opposing 3 - a start." and
"'contain/put a lid' on something. Stop/prevent the movement."

2) There was no mention of transitional method - it's doesn't even apply here.

3) I assumed that loverofknowledge did read the 50's image and text, but that was not enough to understand the answer, so I simply suggested another point of view on 50, hoping that would widen his perspective.

4) Wilhelm: THE CALDRON. Supreme good fortune. Success.

Thus the superior man consolidates his fate by making his position correct.

Not much info here for me. Success, but a hint to reconsider. So I just tried to look at 6 cases - absolutely independent of each other - no progression there, no transition.
Where 50 is the end result/background/influence. Just to get a better feeling of it, and offered that info to the lover.

Those 6 cases describe various roads that lead to 50, the 6 pairs of hexes (so there is obviously a relating one), they allow to see the 50 from outside, I think.
Rather than 6 roads leading out of 50, where you can't see the 50 itself, you are inside of it looking at the exit.

So take it or leave it
 
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Hi, thanks for your input. I appreciate your perspective, but I did not understand your reasoning.

This seems to be your reasoning for the relating hexagram, changing lines, method that you used, is it so? Thanks.

"Those 6 cases describe various roads that lead to 50, the 6 pairs of hexes (so there is obviously a relating one), they allow to see the 50 from outside, I think.
Rather than 6 roads leading out of 50, where you can't see the 50 itself, you are inside of it looking at the exit."
 

Trojina

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1) I did write about 50: "but 50 I think says end of journey, not the opposing 3 - a start." and
"'contain/put a lid' on something. Stop/prevent the movement."

I'd say 3 wasn't starting but preparing to start. You don't make plans in hexagram it's all too unformed. You seek help, you explore. I don't think 50 = end of journey. It's a process of transformation not an end. But we can agree to differ there

2) There was no mention of transitional method - it's doesn't even apply here.

Oh I had no idea why you picked those lines out.

3) I assumed that loverofknowledge did read the 50's image and text, but that was not enough to understand the answer, so I simply suggested another point of view on 50, hoping that would widen his perspective.

I see.

4) Wilhelm: THE CALDRON. Supreme good fortune. Success.

Thus the superior man consolidates his fate by making his position correct.

Not much info here for me. Success, but a hint to reconsider. So I just tried to look at 6 cases - absolutely independent of each other - no progression there, no transition.
Where 50 is the end result/background/influence. Just to get a better feeling of it, and offered that info to the lover.

I see
Those 6 cases describe various roads that lead to 50, the 6 pairs of hexes (so there is obviously a relating one), they allow to see the 50 from outside, I think.
Rather than 6 roads leading out of 50, where you can't see the 50 itself, you are inside of it looking at the exit.

An interesting concept, roads leading in, but surely the 'roads' do not change the fundamental meaning of the hexagram received. 'Supreme good fortune success' cannot be altered or over ridden by using 'roads'. If that were the case then every hexagram wouldn't mean what it fundamentally does mean. I look at the line pathway as something to play with but it can never be the actual answer.

Thanks for explaining anyway. The image of using 'roads' to see 50 from the outside is an interesting one.
 
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This discussion gets at differences in philosophy, in consulting the Yi, and in expectations as to answers.

Yes, Trojina, you are reminding us to stick with what the Yi says and to dwell on that, to absorb its multi faceted message. Actually, your reading for me, that my trip could be transformative, got me into a new perspective, in considering my plans, so that I focus more on what may be empowering, in my life as a whole, rather than merely seeking a distraction or escape from current pressures.

That perspective is helpful for me, because now I'm reconsidering the question, asking, "how can my plans bring about the best growth for myself?" The trip may be a vehicle for that (50), a caldron.

Ashteroid, Your readings can be illuminating --precisely because of their novel and "out of the box" qualities. Yet, I notice sometimes your tendency to push a reading to a yes/no conclusion, e.g. about my trip idea, that it may not be a good idea (based on your way of reading 50). I realize you may also be illustrating possibilities rather than pushing a yes/no conclusion. You like to come to a definite conclusion, though, like a good advisor, rather than leaving things too open.

I consider the Yi as a mirror to show me possibilities concerning choices or situations in which I'm involved. By seeing the choice/situation in such a way ( as the Yi presents), I become aware of how to act in the situation in a manner that is in tune with my best self. So I don't necessarily want a yes/no but a more complex mirror of possibilities.

I'm not sure if I follow the way you were explicating the changing lines of the relating hexagram, but I will give it another look. Thanks for your input.
 

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I picked 6 pairs of hexes, where only one line is changing, and where the relating hex is 50, very simple.

50_leading.png


Other 57 variants have multiple changing lines, so we don't get the additional text/pov from them.
And option #64 is the hex itself.

So I don't necessarily want a yes/no but a more complex mirror of possibilities.
Of course that is your choice, but the question was is it a good idea?
I assumed that you wanted y/n response, proceed or turn back ?
Also I'm having the same wish to just scram and go somewhere warm and tropical with good fruits and sea, and I want direct answer on that from Yi, so I'm biased in a way :)

Also I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, just offering my point of view.

Thanks for complimenting my love of novelty and outside-the-box thinking, that's my nature :)


Trojina said:
An interesting concept, roads leading in, but surely the 'roads' do not change the fundamental meaning of the hexagram received. 'Supreme good fortune success' cannot be altered or over ridden by using 'roads'. If that were the case then every hexagram wouldn't mean what it fundamentally does mean.
I'm struggling with that point. I admit I don't have a clear idea of every hex. That's why I'm trying to use different angles to get a feeling/concept of the hex.

For example 26, Wilhelm: THE TAMING POWER OF THE GREAT.
Perseverance furthers.
Not eating at home brings good fortune.
It furthers one to cross the great water.

Thus the superior man acquaints himself with many sayings of antiquity
And many deeds of the past in order to strengthen his character thereby.

Yet the lines speak of taming and preventive measures, holding back. No mention of eating.

Incoming lines also contain the message of holding back, preventing further action.
18.1 → 26 (Great Potential), Richmond:
The child deals with the actions of the father.
A son makes the father blameless. Peril, but good fortune eventually.

Prevent the decay.

14.4 → 26 (Great Potential), Richmond: He restrains his great resources. No error.

11.6 → 26 (Great Potential), Legge:
Shows us the city wall returned into the moat.
It is not the time to use the army.
(The subject of the line) may, indeed, announce his orders to the people of his own city;
but however correct and firm he may be, he will have cause for regret.

The idea is still the same.

The image probably says how to achieve the correct mindset, to strengthen the character yes.
In the judgement 'at home' and 'cross the great water' point to change of mind, getting rid of old habits I suppose, but it's all very unclear. I prefer reading lines, whether they are incoming or outgoing.


26.1 → 18 (Managing Decay), Richmond:
Danger is about. We should halt our activities.
very clear.
26.2 → 22 (Adornment), Legge: Shows a carriage with the strap under it removed.
26.4 → 14 (Great Possession), Richmond: The headboard of a young bull.
26.5 → 9 (Small Increments), Legge: Shows the teeth of a castrated hog.
There will be good fortune.


26.6 → 11 (Prospering), Richmond: He arrives at the way of heaven.
With that one I don't agree :) see here
 
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"Of course that is your choice, but the question was is it a good idea?
I assumed that you wanted y/n response, proceed or turn back ?
Also I'm having the same wish to just scram and go somewhere warm and tropical with good fruits and sea, and I want direct answer on that from Yi, so I'm biased in a way "

May we both both enjoy a tropical vacation !!! :)
 
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Hi, I finally have an update. I did lots of exploration, in the last 2.5 months, about whether to go abroad. It turned out, it's not the time. BUT I fulfilled the impulse behind my question -- which I raised in late April (here). I decided to move. This decision addresses my restlessness, though it's not a trip abroad. It will be a new start.
The hexagram 50 was quite apt. I had to go through a great deal of inner transformation in order to clarify my values, in my life, preparatory to making this move.
The whole thing has come out in a surprising and liberating way, even though the future is full of unknowns and quite open.
Interesting that I did decide to uproot though not by going abroad. I definitely was onto something, several months ago, that it would be time, soon, to leave where I am currently living.
 

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Good idea?
50u
and clarify:
16 u
and clarify more
31u

50uc - the work of operating from a place of the utmost confidence in yourself, your path
16uc - the work of managing enthusiasm
31uc - the work of balancing the two

Good compromise between now and never!
 
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Update: I DID move though not out of the USA.
This move was very much in accord with the castings of several months ago: Hexagram 50 , 16, and 31.
It has been a move of the heart as I have followed my intuition throughout, maturing along the way. It is like I'm being "cooked" inwardly.
Funny , back in April, I obviously sensed a move but I had no PRACTICAL reason to make one nor did I understand how it would unfold.
I actually thought then it was crazy to contemplate moving, except as possibly a quick vacation.
Here I am.
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

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