Another view of 54.6

[luz]

Have any of you had experience with this line being about a positive thing disguised as a negative. In other words, the 'empty show' might refer to attitudes in a person that seem to be negative but are disguising positive feelings. After all, this line points to 38.6 which is all about marital suitors looking like robbers.

I was just wondering because in the forum I only found references to the relationship being worthless because there is no substance in it. I have found that sometimes it's the opposite, it might look like there's nothing when there is...

 

[dobro p]

I've always interpreted it this way: "What's happening is without substance. Time to get clear of it, and the best way to do that is to stop trying to accomplish anything in particular."

See, 54's about relative powerlessness - at least that's how I read it. And 54.6 is the height of relative powerlessness. In other words, the situation's sorta riddled with powerlessness - that's why the couple's actions are empty of real substance, and that's why everything you try to accomplish is in vain. How to get free? Just drift a bit and catch the next wind that comes by.

 

[luz]

Yes, I see how 54 is about powerlessness. So you think that the empty show refers to the couple? It could also refer to one of them only? Now that I think about, its being the 6th line and all points more to it being about an empty relationship than anything else.
I really don't understand the Yi so well, anyway, I've been at it for about 6 months. I just thought in one interpretation that it meant what I said above and the 38.6 line seemed to reinforce that. And I'm pretty sure about that interpretation but who can be sure about these kinds of things!

 

[bradford_h]

Damn good question, Lightangel.
I've only thought of this as positive for the image manfacturing industry, the ones actually selling the empty bskets and pre-slaughtered lambs. It's certainly big business and 90% of magazine content.

 

[brian]

Gui Mei--often this gua is best understood when one looks at the sequence. After one develops gradually and matures one is then ready to find a partner to share life with. Coming of age, no longer restless, steady, not so fickle as when a youth, receptive, guiding, strong, already on a firm foundation, one in this place is ready to seek completion through unity with another.

In life very few things are born mature. Instead things must first devlop and become ready, fruit does not bear a seed until it is made ripe by the gradual effort of the rain the sun and the soil.

Thunder above, lake below--often depicting an image of a young woman going to the house of a young man in order to be married. Can also support many other images, one of which being a lake opening up and recieving the rain from a powerful storm.

Often times, one who is in this position is wise not to become too ambitious--that is to say it is typical for one to only advance when beckoned to do so--for in this position one initially does not have power--but gains power as it is given.

Often embodies the principal of how to best initiate and cultivate a strong harmonious relationship, where one first learns to give and recieve before one learns how to ask and take.

Gui Mei;Kui--stresses the importance of honesty and sincerity. When one sets out to form a partnership of any type it is best that those coming together do so in a flavor of trust. If people hide things from one another, or are not fully commited to the prospect of forming a partnership then the marraige can be said to be off to a bad start. Things that start off bad are not bound to fail, but do require that much more effort to maintian.

 

[candid]

I think 54.6 can be useful at times.

For example: A young couple is getting married, and the parents of the bride do not get along well, fighting and sleeping in separate bedrooms. For the sake of the daughter, they present themselves as a happy couple at the ceremony.

 

[bradford_h]

Nice example, Candid.

I once heard a friend who was AA use the phrase:
Fake it till you make it.

 

[jeanystar]

I recently had a car accident.....my own absent minded fault--( I WAS NOT throwing the coins as I have been known to do)
I rear-ended a monster SUV at a slight speed but with a mighty jolt, like hitting a brick wall. I was so upset with myself. my car's damages are 2000. I dont know what the monster's damage was yet, altho it looked like only a scratched bumper, no dents.

I asked the Yi "what will this mean in terms of my insurance policy?" wondering if it will raise my very excellent rates. My answer was: 54.6

My first instinct on that reading was: much ado about nothing......it's not a pleasant event but it won't hold water, rates will be untouched.

I wonder if I am being a pollyanna, but I hope not. And I wont find out for six months at renewal. but I will report the results.

 

[dobro p]

Lightangel - for me, 54.6 has hex 38 as the relating text, not 38.6 (there are different schools of thought about what to do and how to think of the active lines in the primary hex).

Anyway, Hex 38 talks about forces being polarized in a situation (not conflicting or contending - that's hex 6 - polarized means moving in opposite directions). So I see the couple in 54.6 as being polarized, and this is in the Marrying Maiden hex, which involves a couple of course. So it's like an empty marriage - they're going through the motions, but there's no substance to the relationship. And if you're a bit Freudian, there might even be some sexual imagery in the empty basket and the sheep that doesn't bleed - an unconsummated wedding night? The forces involved are polarized. So give things time. No need to do anything right now. Things are changing. Wait for it.

 

[lightofdarkness]

54 is about 'premature' energy expenditure, be it due to immaturity or to circumstances demanding one 'grows up' quickly.

Its core architecture is described by 64 where the issue of premature closure etc is covered - IOW to remain 'open', dont close too soon.

It pairs with 38 and is the unconditional version of what 54 and 38 represent (with 38 being the conditional form)

23 XOR 54 (and so the 'nature' of line position 6 described through 54) is 38. What that 'says' is that the expression of unconditional housekeeping, of seperating chaff from wheat, in a context of 54 is described by 38 - mirroring, let others see themselves in the mirror as you hide behind it. The mirror allows for each to see a particular - themselves and that acts to 'housekeep' ;-)

IOW to 'keep the faith' in this context of premature energy expenditure, dont fight the context, dont waste energy, just put up a mirror and reflect. This minimalist action can aid in hiding one's immaturity and so give time to mature and then set one's own context.

From a changing lines perspective:

Line 6 -
"A woman receives a basket of little worth. A man prepares a dead (bloodless) goat for sacrifice. Devoid of direction, advantageous." [gifts for sacrifice are not 'sincere', the basket is not full and the goat is already dead. Pretense unmasked. If the pretense does not go beyond this moment there is no problem.]

Note how this covers 'reflection', 'looks like' but isnt. Both 38 and 54 touch on this issue of energy expenditure that is in some way 'false' - either out of ignorance or of necessity.

 

[luz]

Very interesting. For once I even understand Chris a little bit.

"I've only thought of this as positive for the image manfacturing industry, the ones actually selling the empty bskets and pre-slaughtered lambs. It's certainly big business and 90% of magazine content"

LOL

I think if the question is about a relationship the answer should be straightforward. Empty.
But the question can be about many things and I like Chris' last words:

"Note how this covers 'reflection', 'looks like' but isnt. Both 38 and 54 touch on this issue of energy expenditure that is in some way 'false' - either out of ignorance or of necessity."

Sound more all-encompassing.
I have had some experience on hex 38 and I really have looked more than anything to Lise's take on it and, to me, Hex 38 is about "the others" as she says in her interpretation. I see that this hex is about using a mirror to reflect the others in it and have them believe that that is you. Maybe, but I think it's also about looking at "the others" and seeing yourself in them. Realizing how alike we are, regardless of the faces that we all decide we need to wear. It's about understanding them and feeling more at ease with them. I wonder if this can also involves mirrors. Once you realize we are all the same you let them see what you see.

 

[candid]

Lightangel, good observations. Many hexagrams express relational values, and these naturally need other people to fulfill. Or do they? One little exercise I've done over time was to ask for every gua: What if I was stranded on an island with no-one there to relate with? I would either have to tear out at least a dozen hexagrams from the book, or they would all still apply. Naturally I believe the latter.

 

[luz]

Candid,
Really? I would have to engage in your excercise to be able to see if they would all apply even after removing people to interact with. I imagine so but would it require a very rich inner life...
On the other hand, just because you are stranded in the island it doesn't mean that other people have ceased to exist or that you won't be rescued... what if you were the only person left in the world... surely you couldn't be the only person left in the Universe...
I think it's a great way of looking at the hexagrams to deepen your understanding.

 

[lightofdarkness]

From the univeral perspective:

One of the properties of the context trigram - lake - is (a) superficial, surface, reflection and (b) deep, self-reflection.

These can also be turned around to reflect intense self-reflection in the form of advertising of self - as well as a superfical 'internal' reflection that gets into issues of narcissism/vanity.

The 'show biz' element of lake is in the need for an audience - that need reflects lake as being more cooperative than competitive on the surface, but is just as replacement oriented as heaven.

When we map in emotions so lake = sex and heaven = anger and both focus on replacement of context with something considered 'better' - erradication, the competitive - is 'immediate'. replication, the cooperative - takes time.

Note that replication is about copies of self, mimicry of others, reflection etc etc.

The 'high' from an audience is (a) getting them to respond 'positively' to you (cooperative) and so (b) YOU getting off on that 'high' - IOW the need in 'show biz' is to USE an audience to get high, rather than use oneself (as in heaven, the warrior getting off on the development of their skills in 'combat'). The PRIME context is oneself. To serve others honestly is more WIND oriented. ;-)

In the context of LiSe's "the others", they are the audience and they reflect not 'you' but your power - THROUGH them the show biz type expresses their vanity "look, they LOVE me!,I love me, pretty me!"

IOW we hold up a mirror to reflect 'them' but the turn around is when they end up reflecting you (as fans often do ;-)). There is INTENT in doing this in that the ultimate focus is on oneself. (and so we can easily sense "the others" presence)

Note here the focus on immediate sense of LOVE but focused externally. Move to MOUNTAIN, the 'opposite' of Lake, and the sadness/grief (the emotion mapped to that trigram) is about a LOSS of love and at the same time, the use of that suffering to make us discerning, we learn QA from that suffering.

IOW, with mountain, any cooperative aspect, the audience, is 'in here' rather than 'out there'. When we map-in the MBTI there are associations here to the realm of the 'spiritual', to some internal 'gateway' etc (seers, authors, prophets map to this persona type) - mountain externally is competitive than earth or more so conditional in expression. Thus 'inside' is cooperation that emerges out of the suffering, the particular loss)

The dark side in Lake can come up in over self-reflection, doubts develop. Wasted energy etc but we also find discipline in the form of distillation of 'essence' (41 - if the distillation fails you get literal 'decrease'! ;-))

We also find imposition of standards - 60 -(more copying, replicating); emphathising (soft core, hard exterior of 61). Intensity in expression (58) and treading, where we are carefully observed following a path (10 - treading). There is also the sense of getting the 'high' to defer to the 'low' through approaching the 'high' in a particular way - as show biz tries to 'sway' the audience to accept them.

If we map in the MBTI categories, Lake is the realm of Players - artists, composers, appreciators, revellers, entertainers, performers.
IOW all in need of an audience to express self.

the advantage of the mirroring is also to defend - show biz types can be 'different' when at home ;-)

Things get better defined when we map in emotions. 38 reflects acceptance (fire) in a context of love/sex/joy.

Acceptance deals with 'my gang' vs some other - we get into some form of ideology promotion etc. (and so of 'self' in show biz). It is operating in lake in the LOWER position where it takes on the vague notions of 'self-reflection' both literally and figuratively (in the UPPER position the focus is on intensity in reflection and so expression).

38 has its 'roots' described by hex 40. A 'relaxed structure' and so, associated with the clay from which 38 develops, is symbolic of tension release through that structure - as 'reflection' can do ;-)

For the 'genetic code' of 38 see the linemean section in:

http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x101011.html

IN 54 the top trigram is thunder. "With self-reflection comes awareness". The focus is on the expression of energy, the 'immature' - with its roots in 64. Awareness associates with the 'new', the 'sudden' and so the association to being dropped into some situation requiring 'growing up' really quickly!

The 'path' suggests that in that position, with some self-reflection one can 'grow up' to meet the demands of the context.

Chris.

 

[lightofdarkness]

tsk tsk - a main point I left out - when we go really deep into our neurology so out of its differentiating/integrating dynamic comes the category of 'BONDING' aka invarient relationship where we share SPACE with another/others.

Lake and Mountain are the trigrams representitive of bonding - lake is focused externally, mountain internally.

BONDING means sharing a relationship to such a degree that it it hard to break it without leaving so 'residue' behind. This is different to BINDING where the focus is on sharing TIME with another/others - like a business contract etc.

BONDING also covers REPRESENTATIONS of 'something' - and so the SYMBOLIC (a mirror image is a representation, a child, genetically, is a representation of the parents etc)

Thus a marriage is a BLEND of two, the marriage certificate (or the ring) is the BOND element, the representation.

Chris.

 

[dobro p]

"when we go really deep into our neurology so out of its differentiating/integrating dynamic comes the category of 'BONDING' aka invarient relationship where we share SPACE with another/others."

If you're still talking to me, I have a question about 'bonding'. Well, a couple of questions.

When you say 'go really deep' into our neurology, are you talking about something like a meditative state, or are you talking about a deep analysis of something that's there all the time?

So, is bonding something that happens only sometimes, or is it there all the time?

If it's there all the time, do we not notice it sometimes?

Finally (and most importantly for me maybe), if bonding *isn't* taking place, what do you have? A mere absence of bonding? Or a polar state? 'Isolation' perhaps?

The reason I'm asking all these questions is cuz of parallels I've seen in the work of Karen Horney and also Evelyn Underhill regarding neurotic types in the first case, and mystic types on the other.

 

[lightofdarkness]

Dobro,
>
> If you're still talking to me, I have a question about 'bonding'.
> Well, a couple of questions.
>
> When you say 'go really deep' into our neurology, are you talking
> about something like a meditative state, or are you talking about a
> deep analysis of something that's there all the time?
>

the latter, but there as a potential.


> So, is bonding something that happens only sometimes, or is it there
> all the time?
>

Context determines (but nature can also aid in that determination - IOW someone could be BORN instinctively 'bonding-prone' -thats how it is that I can map the MBTI etc to all of this). The derivation process is from differentiating/integrating (oscillations, and so recursion, of - our attention systems encapsulate and we apply categories using WHAT/WHERE, aka differentiating/integrating. That act of encapsulation sets up a FINITE space, a boundary, WITHIN WHICH the oscillations occur. This will FORCE recursion of differentiate/integrate aka WHAT/WHERE aka YANG/YIN. Given a memory system, so I dont need to do this every time, I can use past experiences of some past specialisation as a source of analogy/metaphor to interpret the current event)

With the oscillations of what/where in an enclosed space, at the core level we end up with a set of generic qualities, AS POTENTIALS, where context 'actualises' one of those potentials. The eight qualities derived from recursion of what/where, where we have reached a level of differentiation that is useable to communicate 'all there is', map to the generic qualities of the specialist perspective of the IC trigrams:

sense of differentiating through wholeness - heaven
sense of differentiating through static relatedness (share space) - lake
sense of differentiating through partness (boundaries) - fire
sense of differentiating through dynamic relatedness (share time) - thunder
sense of integrating through dynamic relatedness (share time) - wind
sense of integrating through partness (boundaries) - water
sense of integrating through static relatedness (share space) - mountain
sense of integrating through wholeness - earth

In my IDM work I convert the whole...parts terms into generic feelings:

wholeness - BLEND (heaven, earth)
partness - BOUND (fire, water)
invarient relationship - BOND (lake, mountain)
varient relationship - BIND (thunder, wind)

Given the above eight catgories we practice 'hyperbolic' development moving from 8 to 64 (hexagram qualities), 64 to 4096 (hexagram with moving line qualities - aka dodecagrams) etc.

> If it's there all the time, do we not notice it sometimes?
>

depends on context. Working from the hexagram levels, the eight hexagrams of expansive bonding are recognised as compounds of X working in a context of Y OR as an aggregate of yang line characteristics (e.g. 45 = 2,3, 23 = 6, 1 = 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc)
Any moment can 'change' a line and so move one from a state described by one hexagram to another. Due to the differentiating/integrating dynamic being apparently universal, so this line dynamic is applicable at whatever scale one is working with - be it oneself, or the collective, or the universe ;-)

> Finally (and most importantly for me maybe), if bonding *isn't* taking
> place, what do you have? A mere absence of bonding? Or a polar state?
> 'Isolation' perhaps?
>

ALL of the POTENTIALS (blend, bond, bound, bind and their compounds). Interpreted from an IC perspective, the WHOLE IC is applicable as a set of POTENTIALS at any moment, and local context can sort that into 'bestfit/worstfit' order. When we 'stare into space' we are in a ground state, like 000000, where context is 'pushing' and we respond. If there is nothing of difference in the context then we fall back on our primate natures - stimulus/response that includes habituation to sameness.

Genetic diversity can make our ground state describable by any hexagram and as such elicit an ordering of hexagrams particular to that ground state. (see the sets in http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/icmatrix.html) - for example, my 'nature' may be '23' oriented and so a sequence of hexagrams from 23 to 43 - a 'derived' binary sequence. Things get 'interesting' when we ROTATE these sequences - as such, one is XOR (lists parts) the other AND (lists events).

The development of consciousness introduces a new kid on the block where it is driven to interpret, to break down a whole into its parts etc. The success of that has ment that we 'transcend' the context, our primate natures, through active mediations and that includes the use of our imagination; IOW if we cannot find something to mediate, we will create it - and so emerges the 'monkey' mind ;-)

> The reason I'm asking all these questions is cuz of parallels I've
> seen in the work of Karen Horney and also Evelyn Underhill regarding
> neurotic types in the first case, and mystic types on the other.
>

neurotic types focus on issues of dealing with change in the existing context.
psychotic types assert their own context to replace the existing.

As such, neurotics are more 'yin', psychotics more 'yang' ;-) - but the neurotic/psychotic dichotomy is a specialist view and can overlay the integrating/differentiating patterns to give us a spectrum of 'types' spanning the neurotic/psychotic dimension.

What this immediately indicates is neurosis associated with identity and security issues, psychosis with problem solving and sensation issues.

Zoom-in to focus on 'neurosis-ing' and the whole of the IC binary order is applicable in analysis of the 'a neurotic' vs 'to neurosise'!

Chris.

 

[dobro p]

Well, that answers a couple of my questions, I think - thank you.

I'm thinking that the parallel I saw between Underhill and Horney regarding mystics and neurotics (no psychotics with either one, btw!) isn't paralleled by your 'map' of what's going on. Again, I find it difficult to get my head around your ideas, but to the extent that I'm glimpsing a bit of what you're pointing at, it seems that its relationship to what Horney and Underhill are saying is one of go (the Asian board game) to chess. They're both sophisticated board games, but way different - in chess, the pieces move; in go, they're stationary. See I had thought there might be a parallel, but now I don't think so. But one thing you said was useful and interesting for me - the idea that when bonding isn't actualizing, it simply subsides into a resting state, which is an earlier or lower or more primitive level - it doesn't flip over into a polar state. Cheers.

 

[lightofdarkness]

The AND nature is focused on change, the XOR nature on the unchanging. These will give you difference sequences using IC hexagrams.

The 'natural' binary sequence of the IC gives us structure - a spectrum of qualities, a listing of 'ordered pairs' - and so an XOR focus, a focus on categories. This is more often associated with Fu Hsi' compass pattern of structural opposites. You can 'overlay' the king wen sequence perspective that is AND oriented onto this structural focus.

The core 64 hexagrams are made up into 8 octets with each octet reflecting the whole operating in a particular context (base trigram).

Thus the nature of contractive bonding, a sharing of space with others 'in here', associates with suffering and learning discernment - but it also includes a spiritual focus, a 'gateway' - BUT it is focused on coexisting with the context.

Move mountain to the realm of thunder and you have 27 - the focus on discernment, quality control, operating WITHIN something new but also focused on context replacement rather than coexisting. Things can get 'mystic'-like in the solitude and the focus on *personal* 'enlightenment' that comes with thunder.

That particular mountain category is present in all of the others to varying degrees - IOW each octet has within in a 'neurotic' position and a 'psychotic' position but coloured by the context such that 'true' psychotics are more likely to be at the far 'yang' end of things where we can dissapear into our own little worlds. This 'traits' can occur in the other areas but 'full blown' is restricted to a more particular context.