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Are birth-readings a good idea?

lindsay

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Last night my daughter gave birth to a healthy, happy baby boy named Jack. We all feel blessed and hopeful the way people do when a new baby is born. I considered doing a reading for baby Jack, but the idea makes me a little nervous. What do you think?

First of all, I do not know exactly what question to ask the Yi. Clearly, a birth-reading is a pretty serious matter. Sort of like a New Year?s reading or a birthday reading, only more so. Somehow I am uncomfortable asking ?Please show us what lies ahead for baby Jack,? but I cannot think what else would be appropriate to ask.

Second, I am a little uneasy about the possibility of saddling young Jack with a reading that may not be straightforward or positive. Whether you take the Yi seriously or not, something like this is bound to have a lasting effect on many people.

Which brings me to a third point, the ethics of reading for others without their consent. No one is asking me to do this. Who am I to go ahead on my own? Do I really have the right to make a birth-reading? Is it the right thing to do in any case?

I know the ancient Chinese frequently did birth-readings, and there are many stories about how the readings eventually manifested themselves to be true. I just don?t know what to think. Is this a good idea? Please help me with your thoughts. Thank you.
 
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candid

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Congrats to you and everyone there, ole friend!

Personally? I wouldn't. Not so much on any moral/ethical grounds; more because a baby is so... well.. new, and each day is like a year, with so many new changes and developments. Second, I'd just be afraid of the possibility of stigmatizing him, even if only in my own mind. That's just me, though.
 

RindaR

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Lindsay, the birth of a grandchild is indeed a joyful event! May this child and all our children be blessed with a discerning heart and ageless wisdom.

I think your concerns are valid. Perhaps you could ask for yourself something like " What is the best gift I can give this child over his lifetime?" or "What approach will this child need from me in order to become the best person he can be?"

Rinda
 

RindaR

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Also, In another thread, I believe there is a reference to a way of calculating a natal hexagram based on the child's date, time and place of birth. When it came up I calculated mine, and wrote it in pencil on the back of my birth certificate.

Rinda
 

bradford_h

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Hi Lindsay-
I like your doubts in this matter.
Why would anyone want to start fixing a path for your grandchild so soon? This is the Book of Changes, not the Book of Fixations.
 

lindsay

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Thank you very much for your support. I feel much better about my decision not to read the Yi for baby Jack in a prophetic way. It just seemed wrong to me at the time, but I couldn?t quite grasp the problem. My fears were exactly the ones mentioned by Candid and Brad, and I do think they are valid concerns. I love Brad?s comment: ?This is the Book of Changes, not the Book of Fixations.? How easy to forget! The whole Yi experience can seem so rule-driven and dogmatic, the human quality sometimes fades from view.

This is the first time I?ve encountered a situation where reading the Yi seemed absolutely inappropriate. What are the rules? I think it?s OK to read for yourself under most circumstances. It also seems legitimate to read for others at their request or with their consent. But in situations where no reading is desired by the people involved, and you are not asking about the status of your own interests, I think reading can be intrusive, invasive and unwarranted.

Consider Rinda?s suggestions. With her unfailing sensitivity, Rinda changes the emphasis of birth-reading from asking about baby Jack?s fate to asking about fostering a positive relationship with baby Jack. The focus changes from what will happen in the future to what I can do to make things work out smoothly in the present. In other words, my reading really comes to be about me instead of Jack, or rather me-in-relation-to-Jack. This seems the best approach of all. Very wise, Rinda.

At one point, I thought my squeamishness about reading for Jack was a sign of weakness. If I could not count on (believe in) the Yi in a serious, real-life situation like this one ? when the chips are down, so to speak ? then obviously my relationship with the Yi was a sham. Now I think it?s more a case of knowing what time it is. There are times to read the Yi, and there are times not to read the Yi. This situation, in my opinion, was one of the latter.

I think I?ll leave reading the book of fate to the astrologers.
 

martin

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Congratulations Lindsay!


My granddad didn't ask the Yi for a life reading when I was born. But he drew my astrological chart. And the chart indicated that this baby would become one of the stupidest people that ever lived on this planet.
Understandably, he was very worried about this, so he told my parents and later, when I was old enough, my school teachers. The result was that everyone treated me as if I was a complete idiot.
This left me little choice, I had to prove that I was not an idiot.
And I did. I worked and worked and worked and I became ... the greatest genius that ever lived!

Well, I shouldn't exaggerate, Einstein was a tiny little bit smarter.
 

lindsay

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Thanks, Martin - that's a very inspiring story! I always wondered how you became the Smartest Person in the World. Any oracle that could predict a lack of intelligence on your part is obviously a fake and a fraud. I was never particularly good friends with Einstein, but I am sure you are his equal or superior in many areas of life. I am certain, for example, you can tie your shoes much faster than he could. Einstein also had little understanding of personal computers - no doubt you could teach him a thing or two in that area.
 

yly2pg1

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"I know the ancient Chinese frequently did birth-readings, and there are many stories about how the readings eventually manifested themselves to be true. "


Well, the practice of birth-reading is still very popular until today.
The chinese coined this as [ming4] or fate.

One is not able to change his or her ming4 because it is fixed, dictated by his or her
own birth date.

A popular weight method is as below which equate Year/Month/Day/Time in "ounce" [liang3].

E.G.
Year = A ounce
Month= B ounce
Day = C ounce
Time = D ounce

From the sum (A+B+C+D) ounce, one could more or less conclude his ming4 thru out his life.
 

lindsay

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Hi Yly2pg1 -

I think ming4 is very difficult for a Westerner to accept. Free will is absolutely key to most of our philosphical, psychological, and religious ideas. A pre-ordained fate sort of makes individual decisions and choices irrelevant.

I also do not understand how ming4 can be squared with the idea of karma. Karma implies our fate depends on our behavior. Without free choice, there seems to be no way to break out of the karmic cycle.

I know a lot of Westerners do in fact believe in fate, but it is very hard to understand how it works in a consistent way. Perhaps some leeway is permissable within our fates. For example, I may be destined to die on such-and-such a day, but the exact circumstances depend on what choices I make. Or it may be my fate to succeed in business, but it does not really matter what kind of business I work in.

In any case, I find it difficult to see the Yi as an instrument for revealing fate. Of course, if fate is real, then the Yi must conform to its dictates. It must encourage me to fulfill or meet my fate. It cannot advise me to do anything that would be contrary to my fate. Fate trumps the Yi.

One more thing. I said birth-readings seemed absolutely inappropriate, but this is not true. Most of my qualms are cultural in nature, and spring from a reluctance to do anything that would inhibit a baby person's free choice or free will. I cannot help believing in self-determination, but I would not feel this way if I believed in ming4. Indeed, finding out a baby's fate might be very important so we would know how to nurture and raise the child properly. I'm still not sure I could get this kind of information from the Yi.
 

yly2pg1

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Hi Lindsay,

Traditionally, the Chinese's way of improving one's well being (health, wealth, relationships etc)
comprises of:

(1) [Ming4]- pre-ordained Fate
(2) [Yun4]- Luck (varies every year in chinese calendar)
(3) Feng Shui
(4) Accumulate Ying De - e.g. Hex15, Hex2.3, Hex18.6, filial pity, release life etc.
(5) Reading

It is true that a pre-ordained fate will make one decision and choice irrelevent.
And the Chinese do not buy this either.


An example of ming4 analysis:
http://www.wayonnet.com/consultation_services.asp?aID=30


About Yi as an instrument for revealing fate, i think there is.
Let me check out for fun.
 

yly2pg1

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Hi all,

Here is a method on weight.
The Chinese coins it as gu chong, a method to predict ming4.

Here is how to go about:

Step 1: Have the birth date and birthtime

Step 2: Convert the date into the date in chinese lunar calendar in the link below:

chinese_lunar_calendar/gregorian_solar_calendar

Step 3: If you understand chinese
gu_chong

Or

Sum up the weight based on Year/Month/Day/Time (from the table below):

<TABLE><TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>Lunar Year</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>Mouse</TD><TD></TD><TD>Dragon</TD><TD></TD><TD>Monkey</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>1924 / 1984</TD><TD>1.2</TD><TD>1928 / 1988</TD><TD>1.2</TD><TD>1932 / 1992</TD><TD>0.7 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1936 / 1996</TD><TD>1.6</TD><TD>1940 / 2000</TD><TD>1.2</TD><TD>1944 / 2004</TD><TD>0.5 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1948 / 2008</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD>1952 / 2012</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1956 / 2016</TD><TD>0.5 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1900 / 1960</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>1904 / 1964</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1908 / 1968</TD><TD>1.4 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1912 / 1972</TD><TD>0.5</TD><TD>1916 / 1976</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1920 / 1980</TD><TD>0.8 </TD></TR><TR><TD>Bull</TD><TD></TD><TD>Snake</TD><TD></TD><TD>Rooster</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>1925 / 1985</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>1929 / 1989</TD><TD>0.5</TD><TD>1933 / 1993</TD><TD>0.8 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1937 / 1997</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1941 / 2001</TD><TD>0.6</TD><TD>1945 / 2005</TD><TD>1.5 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1949 / 2009</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>1953 / 2013</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>1957 / 2017</TD><TD>1.4 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1901 / 1961</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>1905 / 1965</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>1909 / 1969</TD><TD>0.5 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1913 / 1973</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>1917 / 1977</TD><TD>0.6</TD><TD>1921 / 1981</TD><TD>1.6 </TD></TR><TR><TD>Tiger</TD><TD></TD><TD>Horse</TD><TD></TD><TD>Dog</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>1926 / 1986</TD><TD>0.6</TD><TD>1930 / 1990</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>1934 / 1994</TD><TD>1.5 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1938 / 1998</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1942 / 2002</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1946 / 2006</TD><TD>0.6 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1950 / 2010</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>1954 / 2014</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD>1958 / 2018</TD><TD>1.4 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1902 / 1962</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>1906 / 1966</TD><TD>1.3</TD><TD>1910 / 1970</TD><TD>0.9 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1914 / 1974</TD><TD>1.2</TD><TD>1918 / 1978</TD><TD>1.9</TD><TD>1922 / 1982</TD><TD>1 </TD></TR><TR><TD>Rabbit</TD><TD></TD><TD>Goat</TD><TD></TD><TD>Pig</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>1927 / 1987</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>1931 / 1991</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1935 / 1995</TD><TD>0.9 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1939 / 1999</TD><TD>1.9</TD><TD>1943 / 2003</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>1947 / 2007</TD><TD>1.6 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1951 / 2011</TD><TD>1.2</TD><TD>1955 / 2015</TD><TD>0.6</TD><TD>1959 / 2019</TD><TD>0.9 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1903 / 1963</TD><TD>1.2</TD><TD>1907 / 1967</TD><TD>0.5</TD><TD>1911 / 1971</TD><TD>1.7 </TD></TR><TR><TD>1915 / 1975</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1919 / 1979</TD><TD>0.6</TD><TD>1923 / 1983</TD><TD>0.6 </TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>Lunar Month</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>1st</TD><TD>2nd</TD><TD>3rd</TD><TD>4th</TD><TD>5th</TD><TD>6th </TD></TR><TR><TD>0.6</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>1.8</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>0.5</TD><TD>1.6</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>7th</TD><TD>8th</TD><TD>9th</TD><TD>10th</TD><TD>11th</TD><TD>12th</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>0.9</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD>1.8</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>0.5</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>Lunar Day</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>1st</TD><TD>2nd</TD><TD>3rd</TD><TD>4th</TD><TD>5th</TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>0.5</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD>1.6</TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>6th</TD><TD>7th</TD><TD>8th</TD><TD>9th</TD><TD>10th</TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>1.5</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1.6</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1.6</TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>11th</TD><TD>12th</TD><TD>13th</TD><TD>14th</TD><TD>15th</TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>0.9</TD><TD>1.7</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1.7</TD><TD>1</TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>16th</TD><TD>17th</TD><TD>18th</TD><TD>19th</TD><TD>20th</TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>0.8</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>1.8</TD><TD>0.5</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>21st</TD><TD>22nd</TD><TD>23rd</TD><TD>24th</TD><TD>25th</TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>1</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>26th</TD><TD>27th</TD><TD>28th</TD><TD>29th</TD><TD>30th</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>1.8</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>1.6</TD><TD>0.6</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>Time Zone</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>(2300 - 0059)</TD><TD></TD><TD>1.6</TD><TD> (1100 - 1259)</TD><TD></TD><TD>1 </TD></TR><TR><TD>(0100 - 0259)</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.6</TD><TD> (1300 - 1459)</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.8 </TD></TR><TR><TD>(0300 - 0459)</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD> (1500 - 1659)</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.8 </TD></TR><TR><TD> (0500 - 0659)</TD><TD></TD><TD>1</TD><TD>(1700 - 1859)</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.9 </TD></TR><TR><TD>(0700 - 0859)</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>(1900 - 2059)</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.6 </TD></TR><TR><TD>(0900 - 1059)</TD><TD></TD><TD>1.6</TD><TD>(2100 - 2259)</TD><TD></TD><TD>0.6 </TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>E.G. Born in 29 August 1980, 8:00pm</TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>Lunar Year:</TD><TD>1980</TD><TD>=</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>Lunar Month:</TD><TD>7th month</TD><TD>=</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>Lunar Day:</TD><TD>19th day</TD><TD>=</TD><TD>0.5</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>Time:</TD><TD>8:00pm</TD><TD>=</TD><TD>0.6</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD>Sum of weight</TD><TD> </TD><TD>=</TD><TD>2.8</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
 

yly2pg1

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Do not forget to identify your location in Step 2.

Results?
unfortunately i could not locate any english version. You can find the results (in chinese) in the link in Step3. Or you may have to post your weight here, if you trust my translation.
 

richlovejoy

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Is it possible to find your own birth weight for a birth reading if you do not know what time of day you were born?

Thank you!
 

yly2pg1

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Richlovejoy,

There are ways to estimate 'the time of day'.

One of the methods the Chinese use is to ask the diviner to write a Chinese character that flash thru his mind. From the 'character', it can tell the time when one is born.

If one is ignorant of Chinese character, he can use 'an object' that flash thru his mind. Use zhendicto translate it into Chinese character(s).

Most of the time it works.

BTW, feel free to post the "character(s)" here ...
 

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