Art Venture

[northland]

I am collaborating with a friend in an artistic venture. I have written a series of poetry/lyrics that my friend will compose the music to--somewhat like a soundtrack. I have very definite ideas about what I want but we live a great distance from each other which could pose a problem if we are not on the same wave-length. Basically I want to know how satisfying the results will be working this way. The first hexagram I got is 50 with the second line changing and then I got 56. Can anyone help me understand this answer? Thanx

 

[pocossin]

Dear Northland,

I tried to focus on the concern you expressed by formulating alternative questions:

How satisfying will the results be in long-distance collaboration on music?

Will my friend and I be able to cooperate harmoniously on our music project?

Will my friend compose music to my lyrics that accords with my music ideals?

Will the project as a whole product satisfying results?

Is this the best way for me to create music?

Art expresses the person. How well will my inmost nature revealed in my lyrics be captured by my friend's music? How well will my friend be able to perceive and respect me?

I have entrusted something of great personal value to someone else. Will it be well cared for?

Turning to the hexagrams:

50 The Judgement:

The Caldron. Supreme good fortune.
Success.

The Caldron or "ting" has a place in Chinese ritual and myth similar to the Holy Grail in Western culture. The Caldron nourishes both physically and spiritually, much like music.

Nine in the second place means:
There is food in the ting.
My comrades are envious,
But they cannot harm me.
Good fortune.

I think this line means that, although there are differences between friends, food is being shared. You intend to share your creative efforts and nourish others with it. You fear that your friend may impose judgments on your lyrics contrary to the spirit in which they were composed.

It's like putting food in a pot for someone else to cook.

56 The Judgement:

The Wanderer. Success through smallness.
Perseverance brings good fortune
To the wanderer.

"The Wanderer" (as I understand this hexagram) refers to a person traveling to conduct public business. Your lyrics have traveled.

Your have ventured your lyrics at a great physical but perhaps not at so great a psychical distance. Your lyrics are intrusted to a friend because a friend gives the best possibility for the kind of understanding you want.

Also, another can often see possibilities in our work that we fail to see because we are too close to it, and it may be that your friend will find enhancements and interpretations that you did not consider. The more freedom he has to invest himself in your lyrics, the greater the final synergy will be.

I hope this helps to clarify issues. For me it has been a rewarding situation to consider. Thanks for presenting it.

Sincerely yours,
Tom

 

[northland]

Thanx Tom

 

[northland]

Hello Tom,

I've already thanked you (briefly), but having found some time, I wanted to add a little more. All the questions you came up with are the questions that were going through my head at the time I consulted the I Ching. You seem to understand the concerns involved in this sort of venture. Your interpretation is fitting. I can see how I might be overly protective of my work (and fear judgement) but that I have to ultimately allow for my friend's input. I greatly appreciate your input.

Jamie

 

[northland]

I've allowed some time to pass since I first asked about this project and I decided to ask again. My friend and I have been out of touch for a couple of reasons (he has been off the internet for financial reasons and he's in the process of moving) so I'm not really sure how much work he's done on our project so far. I wondered how things were coming along (and I got 53 changing to 28) but then thought that I should probably just ask how we can work together on this to make it a great success for all involved (then I got 28 changing to 53.......the reverse). Can anyone help me with this? Thanx

Jamie

 

[hilary]

Hi Jamie,

I didn?t answer your last question because Tom didn?t leave much to say! This time, though, I?ll have a go. It?s absolutely fascinating, the way these two hexagrams have ?swapped?. (If anyone else is still out there, do you have experience of this?)

I tend to see the second hexagram as the ?relating? one (a term I picked up from Stephen Karcher), representing the way the questioner relates to the question, or responds to the situation, or what s/he hopes for from it, etc. And the first hexagram as a more direct and objective depiction of the situation. Then the most immediate answer to the question comes from seeing the situation through the ?lens? of the second hexagram, almost, and getting the moving lines. So when primary hexagram and relating hexagram exchange places, it looks like a change in perspective. With the first question, you were looking at the project and its Gradual Development (#53) from a perspective of #28, Great Excess, which is under stress and wants action and movement ? and is also naturally independent and unafraid of going against the consensus. Then, I imagine, you changed to thinking about it from a perspective of co-operative development, at which point it could be that a some Great Excess is just what?s needed? But one reading at a time.

The I Ching is describing your project in terms of an engagement ? making (painfully?) slow progress, but still moving, and more or less bound to arrive successfully. The ?wife? has to wait for the ?husband? ? in practice this probably means you have to wait for your friend, as any developing partnership moves on at the rate of the slower partner. (The I Ching?s use of gender roles can be used fairly flexibly in interpretation!

) What influence you can have is hinted at by the Image ? the tree that grows slowly but surely on the mountain and creates a unique environment around it. How this indirect influence can be extended over the distance between you and your friend is perhaps another question!

In the moving lines you get to imagine your project as a wild goose returning from its migration. Fairly apt, I suppose, when your friend is moving house.
Line 2: ?Wild geese gradually reach the rock. Drinking, eating, feasting, feasting. Good fortune.?
Only a temporary ?staging post? on the journey, but arrival there is being celebrated! It feels secure and stable, so this is no bad thing. Conceivably your friend is taking a break from the work!
4 ?Wild geese gradually reach the trees. Perhaps they find a flat branch. No mistake.?
Like line 2, this is about reaching landmarks along the way. This seems to suggest the project reaching a rather awkward position, perhaps trying to find support from a less than ideal source. I can?t help wondering whether the I Ching is being funny here. (Unless they have a special kind of migratory goose in China that can perch in trees?) Still, there is ?no mistake?: if you choose your ?branch? carefully, you won?t fall off?

Line 6 is on another level entirely. I would guess that it lies some way in the future for you ? especially since the lines of this hexagram quite clearly tell a story. But since it?s moving, it?s definitely something you can aim for.
?Wild geese gradually reach the highlands.
Their feathers can be used to activate the sacred rites.?
(Sorry about ?activate?, it makes it sound like a video recorder, which is not quite what?s meant?)
The highlands are the summit ? the project reaching its goal. But this actually goes beyond the goal of social success to evoke transcendence. It?s also a lovely line for an artistic project.

I must run to my word-processing program and write January?s newsletter (while it still is January?). But I?ll come back ASAP to look at the other side of the coin.

 

[northland]

Hello Hilary,

Thank you for the reading. It sounds as though it is focused on the pace my friend is moving along at. Overall, what I understand from what you've said is that he is making very slow but sure progress and is bound to arrive successfully in time. Is my understanding correct?

You said that I am like "the tree that grows slowly but surely on the mountain and creates a unique environment around it" I would really like to know how my indirect influence can, in actuality, be extended over the distance. Hopefully, the next set of hexagrams you will look at will tell me this because the fourth line sounds like perhaps he arrives at a point in the project that feels awkward or hard for him to grasp. In that case, I will need to know how can I help him choose the right "branch" to land on.

Line 6 confuses me somewhat because you describe it as something that we/he/I can 'aim' for and 'activate'. I'm guessing that this line doesn't guarantee anything. Only that a certain energy or potential for success is available to be harnessed if we choose (???) Does this imply that there is the possibility that we may take it only so far and then quit before the highest summit is reached?? (I wouldn't want that to happen!) But then you also said that "this actually goes beyond the goal of social success to evoke transcendence" what does that mean under the circumstances?

I look forward to your response,
Jamie

 

[hilary]

Hi Jamie,

Hm, you?ve been ?looking forward? for quite a while now, haven?t you? Sorry about the delay. Here goes:

?Overall, what I understand from what you've said is that he is making very slow but sure progress and is bound to arrive successfully in time. Is my understanding correct??

Yes, that?s the meaning of #53 in general, and with good moving lines as well I think you can feel confident. (Though - as always - you can?t make predictions about what other people choose to do. Free will would be in question if you could.)

?Line 6 confuses me somewhat because you describe it as
something that we/he/I can 'aim' for and 'activate'??

Line 6 is confusing. As I understand it? the feathers will be used in the sacred dances, and somehow their quality will make the dances real - they have a numinous quality in themselves that validates the dance so that it does invoke the spirits. Actually, the normal translation is just ?can be used for the sacred dance?. What does it mean in the circumstances? I would guess it means artistic success rather than simple popular success, though of course you could spend a few lifetimes trying to define the difference or arguing about whether there is one.

I?m very interested in this reversal thing. I?ve come across much the same pattern again since I last wrote: someone else changed their perspective on a situation so that they were acting on it as background rather than responding to it, and the same hexagrams changed places in the answer. Utterly fascinating.

OK, I suppose you?d also be interested in an actual reading of your answer

.

Your original question:
?how we can work together on this to make it a great success for all involved.?

Hexagram 28 is ?Great Excess?, and one of the most, um, variously translated hexagrams? The essential idea is that something great (strong, purposeful, single-minded?) is pushing across some boundary or norm. Is it going too far, making a mistake, or taking a creative individual stand? The ridgepole seems to be the great idea and the emotion invested in it, which is sagging under the weight (of expectation?).

The irresolvable ambiguity in this reading (for me, hopefully not for you) is the question of exactly where, in the creative relationship between you, you find the ridgepole. Your personal investment in it? Your friend?s awareness of being under pressure to get something done? (I assume he is aware?) The creative co-operation itself? Or, of course, some combination of these. If the answer isn?t clear to you, it might be worth asking one question each, about your role in completing the project and his. It would also help to clarify the relationships in the moving lines in this one.

It seems especially important to sort this out when you look at the Image:
?Marsh submerges the trees. Great Excess.
Wise disciple sets things up alone without fear.
Retires from the age without regret.?
The marsh submerging the trees sounds to me like an abundance of creative ideas and perhaps especially exchange of ideas flooding (and threatening) individual growth. It?s a tricky image? ?No nourishment means there can be no rousing to new action? (sequence from #27), and indeed some plants (like rice!) do need the nourishing floods to grow. But others would be killed by being submerged, as the character itself suggests. The wise disciple uses the flood to act alone, without waiting on social success or approval. Since this is evidently advice for an individual, not a team, I wonder whether it might not be meant for both of you, to allow plenty of scope for individual expression?

28 has a feeling of impatience and urgency; 53 means very slow, organic growth. Hard to know how Great Excess can be expressed through a context of Gradual Development?
But the patterns of change are worth mentioning: inwardly, 63, Already Across: everything feels to have been set up as it should be for success with the first critical steps already taken. In the outer world, 64, Not Yet Across: everything out of place and still to be done!

The moving lines:
Line 2 - ?Withered willow sprouts new shoots
Venerable man gets a young wife
Nothing that does not bring harvest?

More flexible gender roles! I would imagine that you are still the ?wife?, which in this case means being the source of new ideas and energy. The step of change, 31 (from changing this line alone) suggests a rapport that means you are naturally influential. Also - when the withered willow sprouts, it reveals unexpected strength and resilience in the wood. To my mind this image of willow is encouraging in itself: isn?t it an exceptionally vital plant, where twigs cut off and left for some time will sprout again as soon as they?re planted? Growth in the tree comes from a partnership of solid structure channelling vital sap. Lots of images to work with?

I received this one myself recently, and it took a few weeks before I had a quite radical idea that I realised could fit the description - though I took it to the I Ching to be sure.

Line 4: ?Ridgepole at the peak. Good fortune.
If there is something more, shame.?

This again is optimistic: the ridgepole is bearing up under the strain. But the situation is finely balanced, so adding more weight to it by involving other factors would not be good. The ?other factors? could be other people, perhaps sought as ?reinforcements?, or additional pressures from new expectations, or ulterior motives.

Line 6: ?Wading beyond the limits, head submerged. Misfortune. No mistake.?

The idea of ?submerging? and drowning comes back. Here it?s in the context of wading across a river, making a commitment to a journey by taking the riskiest step. The English idiom is not so different - commit yourself too far, and you might plunge in out of your depth. This is obviously unfortunate, so how could it not be a mistake?? I think the idea is that the determination to ?go on no matter what? is a personal matter - that once again, at line 6, we are beyond issues of social success. You have the option of wading in out of your depth (!).

I?ve enjoyed this reading - I hope it is some help!

 

[northland]

Thank you very much Hilary for the reading. I've read it over a number of times already and though it's given me a whole lot to consider it has also raised a few more questions. I will read it many more times in the weeks ahead as I am sure to get more out of it if I give it more time.

Our project is no small undertaking and so Hexagram 28 ?Great Excess? is fitting as it describes how we (at least I) wonder if we are either 'going too far, making a mistake, or taking a creative individual stand' as you yourself questioned. Though I agree that we are attempting a major feat can it be regarded as a mistake?....could our 'creative approach' be in error, in other words?... or is the emphasis more on watching that we don't go too far?....that there are certain boundaries that we must respect and remain within? (I am wondering aloud more than I'm asking though I'd be interested in any ideas you might have.)

What I find most interesting between the two readings is that you say very similar things towards the end of each one. The first time you spoke about sacred feathers and reaching the heights.......in your words "artistic success rather than simple popular success" and in the second reading (with the hexagrams reversed) you once again refer to limits only this time you describe the risk involved as ?submerging and drowning' . Either way....higher, higher or deeper, deeper....seems to force me to look at how "far" we go as a major factor. I wonder, can this (or any project for that matter) be 'destined' to be only that which it is destined to be??? In that sense, can our continuing efforts to make it "more" than just an artistic success (as opposed to popular success) be the mistake of going too far??

I believe that my role in this project for the most part has already been done and it is now my friend's turn to invest of himself......but maybe I'm wrong about this.....maybe I should clarify our individual roles so there is no doubt. So I ask the I Ching: "What is my role in the completion of this project?" and get [Hexagram 16 (line 4 moves) changes to Hexagram 2] and "What is my friend's role in the completion of this project?" and get [Hexagram 40]. I believe it is saying that my original belief is correct though the changing line may indicate that I need to be more supportive in some way. Which brings me back to asking the same question I asked once before--"how can I help him?" What do you think? When you get a chance I'd be interested to know.

Jamie

 

[hilary]

Oh dear, sorry, you really have been waiting for ages. How are things going now? I sort of assume something must have changed in all that time!

The readings you mention suggest that you are definitely the one who provides the motivation and holds it all together - and just possibly gets him more help when he needs it, though I'm not so sure about that. Hexagram 40 is a little more ambiguous. It might suggest he needs to see very clearly where he is going before he will be inspired to do anything towards getting there.

But you're right, it does boil down to how you can help him. So if the question is still relevant, I'd suggest you ask the I Ching exactly that - I don't think you've already done so, have you?

 

[northland]

Hilary,

Oh dear, does this mean I will have to wait another couple of weeks for a response?

Only kidding! I know you're busy these days and I can wait.

There hasn't been much happening anyhow because of my friend's major move. His access to a studio is limited until the summer. His move involves going from Michigan to Jersey for three months until he can settle all his property issues and can then finally settle down in California. So you see, I really can wait for a response!

On asking the I Ching, "How can I best help him?" I received primary hexagram 43 with changes in lines 1 & 5 and relating hexagram 32. How does that look to you? I look forward to your response.

Jamie

 

[hilary]

Hi Jamie,
A somewhat less discursive response than usual - but at least this means you don?t have to wait another fortnight!

Hexagram 43 implies being vocal and taking risks. You may get your head bitten off, but this could just be a necessary risk: if there is indecision and dithering in the air, you need to speak out about it. Only without ?approaching arms? - an aggressive approach would get you no results at all. I suspect you already knew this! The advice that the wise disciple would ?distribute benefits to those below, dwell in te and hence stay aloof? seems to take it a stage further, suggesting tackling the delay as distinct from the person. Obviously this is going to be tricky in the context, but I imagine you can find a way.

Hexagram 32 means persevering and enduring through change - it seems particularly apt at present. Also, of course, it?s the hexagram for an enduring marriage

, so we have some continuity of imagery here! as well as reassurance that the working relationship is still alive. It shares with #43 the advice that it is worthwhile to have a direction to go - to keep the focus on the end result you are both aiming for. It also has #43 as its nuclear hexagram. I wonder about the connection: perhaps that you sometimes have to make decisions and show resolution in order to ?persevere in your tao?. At the same time, #32 advises a conservative approach, using means that are established - whatever has worked in the past - rather than constantly changing direction.

The changing lines seem fairly self-explanatory. Ill-considered, impulsive moves when you lack the ability to carry through obviously don?t work, but once you are prepared you will have to act. More specifically, line 5 (in most translations, anyway - this is a debated one) means uprooting a vigorous plant. It makes me wonder if you could simplify things for him, leave him with less to deal with. Is there any way you could enlist some help? 43 does half-imply that, and so too does the outer pattern of change (the energy that acts on this reading), Hexagram 3.

That?s all I can think of at present - I hope it?s of some use.

 

[northland]

I really appreciate all your time Hilary. I will keep everything you said in mind and refer back to these readings if ever things become unclear.

Jamie

 

[northland]

Hi Hilary! (remember me?

)

It has been a long time since I asked all my questions here regarding my music project that you were so kind to respond to (as did Tom). I was reading it often and amazed how much it described how things worked out afterwards. And so I return now if only to let you know how everything is with my friend and the music project collaboration we tried three years ago.

Unfortunately, like the geese in the moving lines in the first response, we only managed to arrive to a point before we both decided it was best to stop. We really could not work together with such huge distances between us. I could not influence him or the situation enough from where I was to keep it going on his end.

He was not able to really grasp my vision for this endeavor in the first place I think, and also because he was encountering financial difficulties after his move to California, when the opportunity to enter the theater arts for pay surfaced he took it and that really was the end of our efforts.

At that time I thought that perhaps he might continue with our project in his free time and that it would just take us a bit longer than hoped for, but the theater work turned into a full time thing for him leaving no time for anything else. Disappointing, yes, but it was clear that the I Ching responses were very correct. Attempting to do this with each other was truly "out of our depth".

Well not knowing anyone else that could help me put this together I put it away until I could find someone else. Recently I have met someone who might be the person I can work with on this but I'm not going to get too excited or expect too much yet. I have to see if he is someone with a close creative vision as myself and who isn't likely to start something and then walk away before it is finished.

I wanted to thank you for your insights and to share my experience with you. When and if I ever manage to do this finally I will surely return to tell you all about it.

Jamie

 

[hilary]

Hi Jamie,

Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to come back and tell me/us how it worked out. I appreciate that a lot - it's the only way I'll ever learn anything.

Looking back through the readings, of course, I see lots of fat hints from Yi about separation and your friend going his own way, and wonder how I could have missed them. The benefits of hindsight!

I also noticed that the one reading I didn't look at then was the first one - 50 with line 2 changing. Considering it says that a) you have something substantial and worthwhile here and b) your friend is too anxious or negative to join you in it (though this is still 'good fortune')... this is perhaps a shame!

This isn't the first time I've noticed with hindsight that the first divination on a subject was the clearest. But then we know a hexagram about that, don't we...?

I hope the new potential partner will work out better, anyway. Keep us posted!